All of the reviews on Ironheart are wrong. The Internet is divided. This is exposing a much bigger problem with the MCU that we need to discuss. We're also gonna give you our reviews, the good, the bad, and everything in between here on an all new episode of Unbinged.
Matt Kopfhamer:This is your spoiler warning for Ironheart episodes one through three and probably the greater MCU. So if you haven't watched any of that, this is your chance to do that.
Alfredo Brown:So, guys, let's talk about this first and foremost, why the reviews are wrong on Ironheart. Because as I was watching this, I kind of had to have that inner dialogue with myself. Like, am I am I the problem? Am I kinda going crazy here? Because first, this show gets review bombed.
Alfredo Brown:And, I mean, it's quite apparent. It's down at, like, a 39% before the show even goes up, like, for the even airs on Disney plus. It's getting horrible reviews from audience members. And then I go and I see other people on social media and on YouTube and everywhere else that, in my honest opinion, are just kind of pandering. This is a 10 out of 10 visionary performances, incredible script, the action sequences.
Alfredo Brown:And this led me to think that the MCU just sorta has a bigger problem here where every time a movie or show comes out, we're asking, is the MCU over? Is the MCU saved? And every show or movie just has to be either perfect or absolute dog shit. And I don't think we have any more objectivity, especially now when it comes to a show like this where we have a female lead, a person of color, and it seems like all that is gone. Is this now the bigger problem for the MCU?
Alfredo Brown:Jack, I wanna start with you because I know you have some thoughts on this.
Jagger May:The people of color thing, I mean, we've talked about this with Harry Potter. This is something that's just bigger than the MCU at this point. But then we have the microcosm problem of the MCU compounded on top of that, and you've kind of already said it, to where we have one side who won't even wanna come to any form of reason because why would you when you have guys in Marvel shirts that say, and this is the greatest thing I've ever watched since the last Marvel project that I watched. And let's just say the quiet part out loud, man. We work in a dirty, gross business, and everyone wants Marvel to give them stuff.
Jagger May:Like, will you give me early access? Will you let me do this? So everyone is doing it for YouTube. So we're just we're we're just kinda broken. You know?
Jagger May:Like, we're we're kinda broken. And then on top of that, Marvel has an even third layer of a problem to where you say, like, are you the problem when you're watching this? You don't get it. The stories aren't very compelling, particularly on TV. And you have to do a lot of work to where even if you get something that is halfway decent, you're so tired and fatigued that you're like, I just I don't want any more of this.
Jagger May:You know? It's just it's like froyo. You you know? Like, this isn't that good. Know?
Jagger May:I've had enough.
Alfredo Brown:That reminds me of The Good Place, but they're like, it's so human of you guys to make something just a little bit worse so you can have more of it. That's MCU TV. It's frozen yogurt.
Jagger May:Like, we
Alfredo Brown:make it just a little bit shitty so we can have a lot of it.
Jagger May:That's yep. Thank you. You nailed it. I I forgot that you we watched the same TV, Alfredo. You knew where I was going with that.
Matt Kopfhamer:And then I think another issue is kind of as an audience and almost as a society whole, we're very bipolar. Like you said, Alfredo, it's either the greatest thing ever, like Andor, or it's absolute dog shit. There's no room for anything in the middle. And when something like this that comes out where it's fine, like, it's nothing revolutionary. It's but it's it's it's entertaining.
Matt Kopfhamer:It's fun. Like, there's some intrigue, but it's not the greatest thing I've ever seen it, but it's not bad. It's not a bad show by any means. So for whatever reason, we as a society have decided, like, we can't have just good things anymore. It's either gotta be one or the other.
Matt Kopfhamer:It can't be anything just
Jagger May:in the media, dude. Yeah.
Matt Kopfhamer:It's it's it's all about derision and division, and it's fucking crazy.
Alfredo Brown:How you stand out. Right? Like, that's how you stand out amongst the crowd of meh is you're either, this is the craziest thing that's ever happened. This is the best since the last best, or this is the worst. And, like, that's how it works on social media and on various, content platforms, even, like, now on YouTube or podcast platforms where people are watching or listening to us.
Alfredo Brown:And it's become this thing where content itself is infected, and it's it made me start to think, like, is there was there a turning point in the MCU where this happened? And I almost started to wonder, was it actually the point of one of the best MCU shows we've ever gotten where WandaVision comes out immediately after Endgame, and it's when all the Marvel fans are sitting there jonesing for what's next. We need answers. We get WandaVision. It's good.
Alfredo Brown:And then that was it. Like, we kinda kept riding that high where we're like, we need the next best thing. We need the next best thing. We're always comping everything to the movies are comped to Avengers Endgame. The shows are comped to WandaVision.
Alfredo Brown:We just want answers. And it's like this thing where we we, as Marvel fans, almost can't even be satiated anymore. We can't be satisfied by what's on screen because with Ironheart, and we'll get into that, it's solid. That's fine. Like, that's what it should be.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. There there needs to be room for mid again. Like, that's the problem is, like, nobody has room for just mediocre.
Alfredo Brown:Make room for mid. It here's
Jagger May:I think you're right and wrong. Like Okay. As a society, we need room for for mid. We need to get out of this extreme culture. But Marvel has fucked themselves over.
Jagger May:And I'm afraid I think you've used this analogy, for content in general and and particularly, like, what we do in our day job with fantasy football that that we get overfull on bullshit. You know? Like Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Empty calories.
Jagger May:The empty calories. Well, you're going to the buffet and you're eating all the bread to where when the you actually get a a decent meal, you're so full, and it doesn't even matter anymore. Now I'm not trying to call Ironheart steak, and that's, again, what we're talking about how it's like a
Matt Kopfhamer:Salisbury steak.
Alfredo Brown:That's Okay. That's gross.
Jagger May:That's awful, dog. I was like, alright. Horrendous. That's that's arguably disrespectful.
Matt Kopfhamer:How white I am. Salisbury steak is go is good for me.
Alfredo Brown:Separate status. Salisbury steak.
Matt Kopfhamer:Salisbury steak is a solid meal. This is
Alfredo Brown:It's like
Matt Kopfhamer:It's a six or it's like a six or a seven.
Alfredo Brown:This is like a chicken breast or a fish fillet. Like, it is it's it's it's good. It's solid. It's it's rarely gonna be my first choice if it's on a menu, but it's solid and I'll eat it. This is like the thing you get at weddings or at prom where they're like, what do you want?
Alfredo Brown:Chicken or fish? That's Yeah. That's iron heart. And I'm okay with that. If you need to eat.
Jagger May:But they gave me bread. And and I gave you screenshots. I gave you guys screenshots because I have been rewatching the MCU again because, like, I've just been behind because of this problem here. And there was a and I always go to the the Disney plus app, and it is apparent where they went wrong. It is a mess where if you watch the MCU and the complete timeline order, you have literally six seasons of garbage.
Jagger May:Like and okay. And I I'll give credit where it's due. You have some bad garbage, and then you have bread. You have Cheddar Bay biscuits. You have whatever the Texas Roadhouse rolls.
Jagger May:You don't have your actual fucking meal. And then when they give us a meal, they give us chilies, and that chilies is quantamania. I
Alfredo Brown:Xeroxed her license, and she is not welcome back here.
Jagger May:Let's get
Matt Kopfhamer:god in this chilies.
Jagger May:Sure. There's no god. Okay. Okay. There is god in this chili's, and that god is
Alfredo Brown:It's Jonathan Majors.
Jagger May:Yes. Exactly. Like, imagine, okay, you've you've found you've found god in the chili's, and it's Jonathan Majors in all his baggage. You're like, oh, wow.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. That's that's
Jagger May:where we're at.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. So this is it's kind of the overused phrase, and we didn't wanna use it for I I specifically said I didn't wanna use it for this show on this because it's so overused. It's like, is the MCU dead or is it saved? And I think we don't need to keep putting that kind of pressure on a TV show. Even Marvel has said that that the shows are not going to be for major events, that they're saving that for the movies.
Alfredo Brown:The shows are just going to be made to tell small stories. And I think it's fair to say that Ironheart has not killed the MCU, nor did it save it. It's just some decent quality content that there are many things I really liked about it, and I went in wanting to like even more. And there's enough things in there that kind of make me cringe at times. And, like, I don't do you guys are you guys kind of in the same boat where it didn't save it?
Alfredo Brown:It didn't hurt it. It's just it's just there?
Matt Kopfhamer:It's fine. It's fine.
Jagger May:I think it's been dead, and this show was dead on arrival. That's where I'm at.
Alfredo Brown:Like Yeah.
Jagger May:Like and and I told you that, like, the thing that I kinda wanted to talk about is not Ironheart and, you know, like you said, like, is is it the savior? You know, is it Lisa and Al Ghahib? Reba Williams is gonna save the MCU. No. No one thought that, but it's just more like where we really have to think, like, where is the MCU, and are we just kinda done at this point?
Jagger May:Because they say that it only mat like, it's gonna like, it only matters on TV, and we're gonna focus on that being grounded. But something like Ironheart, it would that that goose has already been cooked. You're already too far gone, and they've already said it's gonna lead into secret wars. So to me, you're leading a path of kind of shit up to secret war or, excuse me, doomsday at this point. Yeah.
Jagger May:Yeah. Like, that's where I'm at.
Alfredo Brown:What was
Jagger May:I worry about doomsday. Doomsday doomsday now has to carry up a lot of garbage to save itself.
Alfredo Brown:That's the thing is I think they've set themselves up where doomsday has to be the saving grace. And even if it's not, we might have people show up for secret wars. But I I think people might be done with the MCU if they doesn't hit. Like, I think and I that's what they're doing because they did this now where we don't know. We haven't seen the final three episodes of this series, but it has been alluded that this series ties directly into doomsday.
Alfredo Brown:Fantastic Four ties directly into doomsday. Thunderbolts, if you haven't seen that, ties directly into doomsday. Everything is tying directly into Doomsday. Apparently, Avengers Endgame tied directly into Doomsday that we don't know about yet. Everything is gonna be riding on this movie, and it's there's, like, a weird thing here.
Alfredo Brown:I know a lot of people have talked about it that you're like, Jack, you just mentioned this show is almost dead on arrival, doomed to fail because there was no real marketing. It was the closest amount of or the shortest, amount of time between trailer drop and show release that Marvel has ever had or that a Disney plus show has had. So there was very little promotion. They didn't really care that much. So much so that I pointed out this morning that Fantastic Four gets a brand new trailer that drops the morning after Ironheart comes out almost to do, like, the the the the Job, like, illusions.
Alfredo Brown:Like, look over here. We've got Fantastic Four stuff for you. Check out mister Fantastic's elasticity. Like, that's what people are going on about. It's kinda been sandwiched by Punisher is gonna be in Spider Man.
Alfredo Brown:Here's some new stuff in Fantastic Four. Oh, by the way, we dropped Ironheart. It's okay. Like, that that's what Marvel seems to be doing.
Jagger May:And this is brings up to a good point, and I don't know if you guys feel like this. I feel like Disney in general has they they had a like, we basically got this catalog maybe two years ago about Ironheart, about Andor, all these shows for a while now. They've already invested. They've already sent out the contracts to actors, etcetera, etcetera. So they're like, alright.
Jagger May:It's done. Let's just let's just get through it, and and then we'll we'll get to doomsday, and everything's gonna be fixed. And I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse here, that they're just trying to, like, we've already paid everything. Let's just dump everything in two to three cycles. Let's hope something sticks.
Jagger May:If not, it's over. Maybe this that's a good thing because we can do a soft nuke somehow. And what comics do, get like a reset and just move forward.
Matt Kopfhamer:Gonna say. Yeah. I was gonna say at this point, the MCU's a little too bloated, and they they haven't planned well or pruned enough to make it streamlined for the future to where it almost makes me want and hope that Doomsday or Seeger Wars, as report as, you know, possibly reported, may be that soft reset where they almost reset the universe. And now that they have the rights to the main major characters and legacy characters like Fantastic Four, like the X Men, that they move forward, unfortunately. But they move forward then with a new universe and a new cinematic universe with those characters at the forefront and kinda do it right, hopefully.
Matt Kopfhamer:But who knows?
Alfredo Brown:I I think the thing that we are realizing too, and even with this, right, like, we're we're watching it, people are talking about it. It almost feels like maybe the MCU isn't killable at this point. Like, it's just going to keep going, even if it is
Matt Kopfhamer:ready to fail,
Alfredo Brown:even though even if it is sort of like a living undead type situation where the MCU is just going to keep pumping out TV shows, keep pumping out movies because people are just gonna go watch them. Families are gonna take their kids to go watch superheroes. Toys are gonna sell. Big time fans are gonna watch stuff on Disney plus.
Matt Kopfhamer:Thunderbolt Slots.
Jagger May:Still gonna pander because they have to.
Alfredo Brown:And that like, that's actually the biggest thing to me that I noticed with this one is just, like, the and I hate to do this because, like, I'm rooting for the show. Like, I wanna see people of color crushing it in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. But every time it happens, it almost feels like a like a throwaway thing that you get a lead like this or characters like this. And I was telling you before, I'm a fan of Anthony Ramos. Like, I actually really liked him in Hamilton and in the Heights and even the the Transformers Beast Wars movie like he did.
Alfredo Brown:You know, like, there's a few things here. I actually enjoy him. I think he's okay in this series, and I think the series itself is, like, not. I don't think it's doing justice to what these characters could have been, but you have so many people that are it it is. It is.
Alfredo Brown:Or no one's riding. I will
Jagger May:say it's bad. It's easy. Yeah. Like
Alfredo Brown:You know what? I think we're kinda spinning our wheels here on Marvel. Why don't we actually get into the review? Let's let's do this. Let's start off with the good stuff that we liked from this show.
Alfredo Brown:Koff, I think you might be the most positive on it out of all all of us, and and I wanna hear your your good from this show.
Matt Kopfhamer:I like the performances, between the AI, Natalie, and Riri. I I like that dynamic and how at first, Riri was fucking freaked out by it, which understandable. That's your your trauma, basically, confronting yourself. And I think there might be something more sinister going on there with the AI possibly. But I I do like that interaction.
Alfredo Brown:Brain.
Matt Kopfhamer:Probably. But it's also I think because of the way they're interacting magic and technology, I think there might be something going on there, especially with the whole Yep. Like, brain scan and her interaction with Joe talking to or Ezekiel talking about
Alfredo Brown:What's your name? Person they
Jagger May:got Tony.
Alfredo Brown:Tony.
Matt Kopfhamer:But how the brain scan might turn her into goop or whatever. So I wonder if there might be something there where it it was interrupted by some magical force like Mephisto. And that's how this Natalie AI came to be. I also like I like the character of Joe. I like some I like some of these side characters.
Matt Kopfhamer:Like, the mom, I think, is great. I can't give a single shit about any of the heist characters, except for John, r a p. But yeah. So I think that the I think the character dynamics are are doing well, and I think the performances are are pretty good. End of list.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. I I I have some of the, like, the similar things that I liked as well. I think the character of the hood is intriguing regardless of how the performance has been. I think it's been a little undersold by Anthony Ramos. I think it could be better, but, like, we're just not getting a lot of it.
Alfredo Brown:There's been weird things where I noticed that he's almost too calm and too nice, and there's been two references where he tells the group, like, you guys are too pretty to be this upset. Like, you're too good looking. And it's just like Yeah. That's just he's he's putting out weird vibes, and there's very almost like like, there's obviously some deal with the devil energy, and I think we are all understanding that Mephisto is coming. And, I'm curious to see if it is gonna be Sacha Baron Cohen who was allegedly cast to be this character.
Alfredo Brown:I keep hearing that it's some big Hollywood actor that has been in some fantastic roles, so we'll see what that is. I'm curious about, like, what are these contracts that are being signed? Are they legal things? Are they demonic things that are happening? The marks on Parker's body, the origins of the hood.
Alfredo Brown:What kind of powers does it actually give him? Is it like there's so much there? I think Ezekiel Stane is a compelling character. I think it grounds the series. The the scenes between Alden Ehrenreich and and Dominique Thorne were actually my favorite of the entire series.
Alfredo Brown:In episode three, I thought episode three is the best so far. There's been the Natalie thing. The AI, I think, has had some good moments where, like, I'm laughing. Like, when she's like, hey. I figured out how to text.
Alfredo Brown:Like, I I laughed out loud. But then there's other times where she says stuff, and I'm just like, that was really cringey. It just like, it's it's not always funny. I love the fact that we got a brain mapping for the suit and for the AI because that's something that, like you said, cough, I think is going to come into play later. I think if we're doing kind of predictions and theories here, I think a lot of this is going to be the magic taking over the industrial side where you get this dark magic or chaos magic potentially taking over the suit, taking over the AI.
Alfredo Brown:I'm just assuming we're gonna get a Spider Man with great power type thing with Riri, where she's gonna have to either kill her friend or by killing the AI, she's could damage herself, and she's like, I have to do it. So, like, there there could be some of that stuff there. The brain mapping thing, thought was cool because we have not seen that before. So, like, there there's enough things here. The show did its job.
Alfredo Brown:It made me intrigued, and that's that's all I needed. It was like, let me let's have some fun. Let's be intrigued, and I think it did its job in that aspect. Jag, what about you?
Jagger May:I think we've already said it. I think Alden Ehrenreich is a I think he's just fantastic. I know a lot of people don't like solo, and I think it it's more of that it's not that he wasn't good. He's just put in a difficult role with that. And almost as much as
Matt Kopfhamer:Ford. Yeah.
Jagger May:Exactly. I just wish he was MCU would've used him with something bigger. And you're like, you guys know how I hate that. Well, we need to find a role for him type thing. But I just think he's the type of guy where there is a role for him, and it could be better than in, like, a bit role in a show like this.
Jagger May:And then
Matt Kopfhamer:Sandman energy to me. Like, Spider Man villain? Sandman?
Jagger May:That'd be good. I thought he'd be good iceman, like Bobby Drake, because he's just, like, really charismatic and stuff like that. But and then lastly, I like this area area of magic within Marvel. I think that how we got I don't want how we got WandaVision and more importantly, how we got Agatha was such a weird way to introduce magic into Marvel, and it fucking sucked in my opinion. And I liked Agatha.
Jagger May:I know it's weird, but, like, it just doesn't feel like Marvel through most of that show, and and and that's a good way. But here, we get a cool side, and we get to see Mephisto. I just hate the way I'm not gonna lie. Where you guys see it go, I hate that direction of it. I I didn't
Alfredo Brown:I didn't say I liked it. I'm saying that that's where I assume it's going because feels like the most superhero tropey thing that we can get by the end. And, apparently, everyone loves the finale. So it's probably not that, but I'm just making the assumption.
Jagger May:And I just think that whole AI relationship and and this is something I kinda wanted to talk about with the entire Marvel problem is just like, I I don't know a lot about Reevey Williams, and I'm a comic guy. I just comics are so huge. She's not a character that's been around long enough. Like, I don't know enough about nervous. Yeah.
Jagger May:I don't even know enough about, like, this is DC, but, like, Green Lantern. Let's put it that way. Like, there's so many other bigger characters. There's so many even X Men that I I would like to know more about that I haven't had time to go here, so I don't really care about her. So, like, her and that whole AI relationship, I think it's fucking weird.
Jagger May:And maybe it's because I'm an AI phobe person, but I'm like, I think you need therapy. And whatever you did with brain mapping, you've made something that's incredibly unhealthy. And
Matt Kopfhamer:Oh, this is the people that use ChatGBT as a therapist. Yeah. That's what this is.
Jagger May:Yeah. It's it's kinda gross. No. A. No.
Alfredo Brown:It's wild. It's wild. My my
Matt Kopfhamer:There are people that are dating in
Alfredo Brown:that movie, Herds Quick story time.
Matt Kopfhamer:Fucking documentary apparently.
Alfredo Brown:Quick story time. My my little sister-in-law, she's 13 years old. She will talk to Chad GPT for hours. Oh.
Matt Kopfhamer:Hours. We're cooked.
Alfredo Brown:We're out luck. Insane. I did not like, and I'm saying it low because they're also in the house here, but, like, that's it's wild. Like, I didn't realize that that that generation is getting there to the point where they're, like, they're talking about their issues to AI. They're having conversations with AI.
Alfredo Brown:They're asking AI to play games with them. It's just like, it it's I I do think that this show itself is giving a commentary on that as well where it's like, there's gonna be a lot of the yeah.
Matt Kopfhamer:Go go. We've this generation hasn't so it hasn't been socialized correctly since COVID. Like, they don't know how to interact with our people No. In a normal manner. So the fact that but the thing is humans are social creatures, so they still crave that kind of interaction.
Matt Kopfhamer:So they generally only access and outlet they have, which is AI and and, you know, screens, which is fucking terrifying. We are so fucked as a society.
Alfredo Brown:I just love where we got to. We're like, yeah. Show's not bad. Also, we're fucked.
Jagger May:That's, like, I I feel like an old person. Like and I, you know, like, especially YouTube swings young, so I'm sure there's gonna be like, what are we on Gen Alpha now? And they're gonna say, like, oh, shut up, boomer. Yeah. You know, like, significantly younger than I am.
Matt Kopfhamer:God.
Jagger May:But, like, her being best friends with AI is fucking weird, guys. Go be friends with real people. That's just not okay. After our generation
Alfredo Brown:is like, look. I got a Furby and a Tamagotchi. Yeah.
Matt Kopfhamer:We let those things die for a reason.
Jagger May:Just covered
Alfredo Brown:in its own shit, hasn't eaten for weeks.
Matt Kopfhamer:That should have been a warning sign. But I wish they had kept the dynamic where she was freaked out by it. Like, the first whole episode, she was, like, wary of it until her mom was the one who's like, it's wonderful, honey. You did such an amazing job with it.
Alfredo Brown:Can you make another one?
Matt Kopfhamer:Of your dead dad, your dead stepdad? Yeah.
Jagger May:She's like, could you bring your dad back? And I'm like, go get therapy. Spend some of that money on a fucking therapist. Like, she's I don't
Alfredo Brown:wanna get down the slippery slope of comparing the two characters, but I think naturally it's going to happen with Riri Williams and Tony Stark. He at least comes out and says it like, yeah. So that's how I spent, you know, millions of dollars on my little therapy project here.
Jagger May:Yeah. Fart
Alfredo Brown:or barf.
Jagger May:Calls it.
Alfredo Brown:And calls it barf.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:It's it's a like, there's things where I I think let's let's give this time to to breathe a little bit more. Like, I don't think that the relationship between her and the AI is something egregious. Maybe we give it a little more time. I do think and, Jack, I think you you feel differently. I do think the three episode release was a good strategy by them.
Alfredo Brown:Even though we don't get to talk about the show as much, I don't think a lot of people would have made it past that first or even second episode because think the first episode was second one. The first episode was a was a little cringey. I think the second episode was not very good. Third episode actually hooked me where I'm like, okay. And and I understand that was the point of splitting it the way they did, but the third episode actually had good action, good dialogue.
Alfredo Brown:I like the dynamic between, her and Ezekiel Stane. Like, there was it was really starting to take shape, and that's why I think they had to do it like that.
Jagger May:I think, and where I'm at is it's it's good and bad. It's like, you're right. They had to do that. But the fact that you can't build a show and they can't get it right is just kind of a testament to poor writing. And it's more like my point in bringing it up.
Jagger May:It just shows that they knew that this won't do well if we release this sequentially. Make it like Yeah. Exactly. It just yeah, man. Like, you had to do that, but it's sad that you had to do that.
Jagger May:Like, if you can't nail the first episode, that's the easiest thing to do in TV a lot of times is the pilot.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. That's the thing that the execs get sold on. Yeah. And that's not but that's not what hap like, that's what James Gunn has talked about. Like, that doesn't happen with Marvel.
Alfredo Brown:They're just like, yeah. We need an Ironheart show. Let's get that out. Mhmm. And it doesn't matter.
Alfredo Brown:Like, the the quality doesn't get tested. They're just like, yo. Let's put this thing out.
Matt Kopfhamer:Mhmm. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. So the the other issue
Matt Kopfhamer:Well, I was gonna I was gonna say the other issue with us I do agree the three episode re release at least is a good idea. But then the for me, an issue is this is only a six episode season. Like, again Yeah. What the hell is with these, like, under ten episode seasons that that companies keep pumping out? It's like, are are we the BBC now that we do fucking, like, four episodes and then a two a two year wait between seasons?
Matt Kopfhamer:So it's a catch.
Jagger May:I think BBC does a great job, though, when they do it. Their shows
Matt Kopfhamer:They do quality. They don't pump out usually. Well, you know.
Alfredo Brown:I I think that I think that was a budget thing. Like, I don't think they're giving, no offense. Like, I don't think they're giving Rhea Williams a 10 episode season at forty five minutes a pop. Like, it's it's probably not happening.
Matt Kopfhamer:What are we doing?
Alfredo Brown:There's not a lot there's what?
Matt Kopfhamer:Then what are we doing? Like, if you're not gonna put the effort and time and money into it, then why release it? Right?
Alfredo Brown:Like Because they can do it if wanna
Jagger May:make money. Can do a good miniseries too. Like, HBO
Matt Kopfhamer:Is that what the plan
Jagger May:is? Is
Matt Kopfhamer:that what the plan for this is? I don't think so. I think this is meant to be a multi seasonal
Jagger May:iron heart. No. It's No way.
Alfredo Brown:I don't think it was ever would have to have massive success for this to be something that is gonna give you multi seasons. I think this was just a, initially, a cash grab of let's work let's build off of Wakanda forever. Let's explore this other character. Let's see what we can get. If it doesn't work, Okay, like there's we're playing with house money.
Alfredo Brown:There's nothing lost on this. That's why we're going to attach Ryan Coogler's name. We're going to give it six episodes. We're going to take three years to actually put this thing out, and then we're not really going to put a whole lot of marketing dollars into it because it flops. It doesn't really hurt us.
Alfredo Brown:But, hey, let's throw in Mephisto in there because people are gonna go watch it later. Like, that's that's honestly
Jagger May:locks another money genre of Yeah.
Matt Kopfhamer:I see.
Jagger May:And yeah. And what's fucked up is, like, they should've just done that with doctor Strange. Like like, like, I just I don't understand Marvel sometimes, man. I just don't get it. Like, let's open up with Dormammu.
Jagger May:I'm like, I am, like, one of the six people who know who the fuck Dormammu is. You know? It's just like, come on, dude.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. And they kinda listen to that character.
Jagger May:A 100%, dude.
Alfredo Brown:Like It's like the last the original Fantastic Four where it's just like a big cloud.
Jagger May:Like a big orifice. You know? It's like like like Giant butthole in sky. Yeah. Like, what if we recreate what the inside of a Hoover vacuum looks like?
Jagger May:It's like, what the fuck is this? Alright.
Alfredo Brown:It it seems like we're already trending this direction. So let's hop into the stuff that we didn't like from this show. Jack, I wanna start with you this time. What were the things that stood out to you that you didn't like?
Jagger May:Miss where to start and where I didn't like. A lot of it is, like you've already said, I the thieves, I don't this seems to be, again, another Disney problem. It's like, was this their answer to Boba Fett that we didn't even need answered? You know? Like like, they're they're like, well, Boba Fett has Power Rangers.
Jagger May:Why can't we have ours? You know? And it I just don't understand it. It it seems like they set themselves up to to rage bait at this point here, you know, where let's have all these eclectic rainbow of characters. And I'm not hating on diversity.
Jagger May:Obviously, I'm diverse. But when you poorly write them, sometimes I mean, when you poorly write them.
Alfredo Brown:When it's important.
Jagger May:Yeah. Like, when it when it benefits me Like,
Alfredo Brown:the SATs and the resume.
Jagger May:Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:You bet your sweet ass. I'm Cuban American.
Jagger May:When it comes scholarship time, it's just like, well, you know, I basically show up there in a in a Dobby outfit. I'm just wearing a fucking
Alfredo Brown:I'm looking at white, black, other, and I'm checking other. Yeah. You're welcome, America.
Jagger May:And we joke, but this is what Disney kinda feels like they're doing. Let's just say it. Like, it's the pandering thing. Like, to me, that was a that was a big part of it. And then secondly, it's just it feels like they never have enough show.
Jagger May:If I wish they would do the BBC BBC thing, Cough. If you got four episodes, only give me four episodes, dawg. Like, I don't, like, I don't need you to stretch this out for eight. You're the ones who make up that fucking number. I don't need that.
Jagger May:You know? That's, like, the big part. Like, you're the one who said it, Koff. You're like, does this feel long? And I'm like, every show for the last three years.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Like, maybe maybe we're we're gonna see what all these heists are going towards, but it almost felt like episode two did nothing. There was a heist. We learned nothing about why they wanted to do the heist. We learned very little about the hood just that he can bend bullets like it's wanted.
Matt Kopfhamer:And the heist itself was boring. Like, if we're being real. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Like, it's a boring the biggest crime that a show can, that a show can have is, like, not even to be bad. Like, I'll watch, oh my gosh. What's the the Dakota Johnson, spider Webb? Madame Webb. I'll watch Madame Webb because it's
Jagger May:it's hilarious.
Alfredo Brown:Funny bad. It's funny bad. It's funny bad. You can't be boring bad. And I don't think this show is there, but it's it's it's flirting.
Alfredo Brown:It has it has sequences. At times.
Matt Kopfhamer:It has sequences where it's incredibly boring.
Jagger May:And thank you for bringing this up, Alfredo. I'm so happy you said that because I wanted to ask you guys this. It's like, we've been doing these, like, team rewatch, even, like, doing audiobooks that have been really fun. And even when the movies have been bad, I've had fun.
Matt Kopfhamer:They're fun.
Jagger May:Again, Marvel's got this point where, like like I said, I'm rewatching guys. I'm like
Matt Kopfhamer:fun anymore.
Jagger May:Fuck. This feels like work. It's because I'm not it's not good bad. It's not it's just like, Jesus fucking Christ. How how did you make mashed potatoes taste like nothing?
Jagger May:It's like you had flavorless mashed potatoes. They're like you're like, six seasons strap in, bud, plus half some not fun.
Alfredo Brown:Wait. So then who's who's the Guy Fieri of Marvel? Like, who's taking us to Flavortown?
Matt Kopfhamer:Taking
Jagger May:us. Who's taking us to Flavortown? Apparently, Robert
Alfredo Brown:Downey Jr.
Matt Kopfhamer:With Ragnarok?
Jagger May:It's Robert Downey Jr.
Alfredo Brown:It's Robert. I think it's Robert Downey Jr. Taiga overseasoned the potatoes in in Love and Thunder, my man.
Matt Kopfhamer:Just like Gaffieri does.
Jagger May:He was put put jelly in the potatoes.
Alfredo Brown:Put jelly beans in the potatoes
Jagger May:in Love and Thunder. He's that meme of the monkey cooking, and then and I love Taika Waititi, guys. Yeah. But, like, what the fuck was that movie? Like, I heard a theory that, like, Marvel came in with some their Marvel bullshit, and he intentionally made a bad movie.
Jagger May:And Kinda like
Alfredo Brown:the Joker, Folly of Do?
Jagger May:Yeah. And I I'm hoping that's what he did. Because I'm like, how do you go from Jojo Rabbit to that dog? So what the fuck?
Matt Kopfhamer:I honestly think that movie would've if he had less studio interference, it would've been because he had to go in and cut a bunch too. That's a Like, had
Jagger May:to go down and
Matt Kopfhamer:edit a bunch of it down. So it's like, think his original vision was a lot more ambitious, and they made him prune it, and it fucked the entire thing up. Because I think a lot of people ignore I I going off on a huge tangent, but a lot of people ignore the fact that that movie is set up as almost like a princess bride esque, like, setup where it's Korg telling a fucking story about Thor. And that's why it's so fantastical at times. Like, why some of that humor didn't hit because it's from Korg's perspective who has a slightly weird way to look at things.
Matt Kopfhamer:So, like, the whole sequence of Thor, like, jumping on on his fucking broomstick looking axe to fly away is because Korg's telling that story.
Alfredo Brown:Oh my god. Has the hammer pulled you off?
Matt Kopfhamer:Exactly. So that makes it not
Alfredo Brown:every time.
Matt Kopfhamer:So I think that's where people again, the editing, it was all fucked, but I think that's where people also get that movie wrong is they're viewing it from the wrong lens. But that has nothing to
Alfredo Brown:do with
Matt Kopfhamer:what we're we're talking
Alfredo Brown:about. I was like, that has absolutely zero to do with this podcast, and the thumbs down are pouring in like a waterfall right now.
Matt Kopfhamer:I don't care. They're not watching this. They're not watching this.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. Alright. Daddy's gonna get us back on track here. Okay? Let me let me let me open up the GPS and get us back on the road.
Alfredo Brown:The bad for me was I know I already mentioned this, but there's just times where I wanted the show and the characters to stop trying so hard all the time, whether it was episode one with the intro, which, like, I'm just sitting here saying, why can't she just go back to Sherry and be like, yo, what's up? I need some help with
Jagger May:I need a job.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Like like Like, what do you what do you mean?
Matt Kopfhamer:She's putting brilliant minds in the world? Wakanda. Why did she leave Wakanda?
Alfredo Brown:Like like, it's not she didn't she didn't go home to Chicago to be with her family. She's like, I'm gonna go to MIT and struggle.
Matt Kopfhamer:Again.
Alfredo Brown:Why? You were you were the and so, like and I understand that's probably just, like, the the plot armor is like, oh, we need her to be struggling out in the real world. It just it just didn't quite make sense to me. And there's even a time later where she's talking to to the hood, to Parker Robbins, and she's just like, magic is just code for I don't know. And it's like, how you know that sorcerers exist?
Alfredo Brown:Like, you know that Doctor Strange exists? You know that there's a a where someone can drink water from a flower and take over the powers of the Black Panther. Like, you know the of of Namor and and the Taliban. Like, you you know this exists, and that's your explanation of what magic is. It seems weird that she's struggling to accept that magic exists.
Alfredo Brown:It seems weird that she's put herself into this moment where she has to have a struggle when the the struggles kind of solve. Like, you have a really good friend that you know that you fought side by side with that can give you all the money you need for your tech.
Matt Kopfhamer:Probably some vibrations show.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Like, the show has intrigue, and it's the same way Agatha had an intrigue, the same way Ms. Marvel had intrigue. To me, those shows had a lot more charm, and this show is not there yet. I haven't seen a character where I'm like, You are charming.
Alfredo Brown:You you you know what? I'll actually say this. All the German Reich's character has done that. And, like, I know how that sounds coming from someone that looks like me to say that the character that also has the same features as me is the one that's charming, but it's it's true. Like, that's how I have felt watching this.
Alfredo Brown:Like, I haven't been in love with Ribi's character. She's been a little hard to like at times. Natalie has been good and bad. Even even She's
Jagger May:also not a real person. I'm
Alfredo Brown:just Right. Like, that's that that too. Well The team
Matt Kopfhamer:The actresses.
Alfredo Brown:The yeah. Sure. Like but, like, the team of of let's just call them the thieves. Right? Like, den of thieves there.
Matt Kopfhamer:Ugh. Couldn't care.
Alfredo Brown:I'm not into show. Like, they could all be a star in their show.
Jagger May:I couldn't care less. Is what's named Slug?
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yes. Apparently, are based off of real comic book characters, but they made the TV show versions nothing like the comic book characters. Which I don't know that, and and you guys can let me know that. Exactly.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. And for a second, like, I thought it was me because I was looking, I was like, man, the team is so overstimulating in a way that to me, they've actually muted Riri, who if we are trying to have her be, you know, the next Iron Man type character and this, like, this this genius savant, this this person with personality that you wanna root for, she seems so muted in that group. And that never happened with Tony Stark being around the Hulk and Captain America and
Jagger May:personalities.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. And, like, there there was just enough here where I'm like, it's not charming enough. I'm sometimes intrigued, but then I'm also sometimes just cringing. And those are the things that I wanna see where this show goes. Episode three was the best of the bunch.
Alfredo Brown:I'm hoping they can land the plane. It sounds like they do with the finale, but I just don't know that it's gonna matter in the grand scheme of things. I think they're gonna try to force that that square peg into the round hole to be like, look. Look. Doomsday.
Alfredo Brown:Doomsday is coming. That that's
Jagger May:where I think we're getting.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. Also, the real bad criminal underuse of Eric Andre. So there's that.
Jagger May:I'm actually happy.
Matt Kopfhamer:One scene. Yeah. Like, one scene? Yeah. Really?
Matt Kopfhamer:Like I like him.
Jagger May:I like Eric Andre a lot, but, like, Marvel struggles has struggled since the, I would say, Infinity Saga to really find humor again. Mhmm. Like, right now, I I think and I keep bringing this up. They're making really bad fusion food. I need them to and and, actually, the the whole thing that we're saying yeah.
Jagger May:And the whole thing that we're saying, like, put a shot in or put a quarter in Jagger saying it's a bad writing job. They write thin characters, and you can just tell that there's multiple cooks in the kitchen. The the this is the problem that we have with all of television and a lot of things right now is we lack vision and we lack, like, auteurs. Why something like Sinners works? Why something like all these other shows works is you have someone with a singular vision who is running the ship.
Jagger May:But within this one show, we have five fucking writers who's like, well, now we're gonna tell a story about this. Now we're gonna tell a cutesy little story about friendship. And it's just it's garbage. It it's almost like we create AI on our own. Like, we make our own AI slot by having this jumble of poor ideas on screen.
Jagger May:Let's not forget, isn't this like a piece of iron wars that they just kinda, like, broke off and made a story? Like, are
Alfredo Brown:They just said that iron war is not gonna happen.
Jagger May:Well, I know. Or armor wars, whatever. Like
Alfredo Brown:Armor wars. Yeah.
Jagger May:Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, this was supposed to be, like, a tie in plug for it as well. So it's just I don't know, man.
Jagger May:We're just it's fucking it's pencil fucked is what and writing this is called pencil fucked is what it is.
Alfredo Brown:One, never heard of pencil fucked. Two.
Matt Kopfhamer:Great word, though.
Alfredo Brown:You know what? To kinda go along, if we're gonna use the metaphor, I kind of feel almost like Marvel has sort of become a human centipede of itself, where it's like this it comes from like, you have to bookend this with why Iron Man matters for Riri Williams, and then how Riri Williams is now gonna lead into Mephisto, which leads into doctor Strange, which leads into, like, Doomsday, which leads into and there's all these different things, which, by the way, we haven't even pulled at the Young Avengers thread yet. That's going to happen as well, and Riri Willi
Jagger May:is gonna return to that. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Marvel's champions or something, which, by the way, like, I'm just I want it to be really good because I think it can be really fun.
Jagger May:But it's not, dude.
Alfredo Brown:I'm I'm it is probably if if history has taught us anything, probably not gonna be received well because if I remember correctly, it's, like, six out of the seven characters are young female leads.
Matt Kopfhamer:Female.
Alfredo Brown:And you do have one male character, and he is openly gay.
Jagger May:God.
Alfredo Brown:Like, there is there is going to be a a a big portion of the MCU fan base that's just gonna be review bombing this
Matt Kopfhamer:as well.
Jagger May:And we don't and it's not that we don't care about this, guys. The my issue stories. It's they're legacy characters. It's brings me back to my point. I haven't had time to give a fuck about these characters yet.
Jagger May:Comics are massive, guys. Carl, like, back there, that's just John Constantine right there. That's half of that series. And you know what? It's not even relevant anymore because it's from the eighties and nineties.
Jagger May:That's just one character, and that's how comics works. And then you're like, well, we plug this one because maybe one guy is a or, you know, one person is a Ribi Williams fan. Like, they're setting themselves up with failure. The whole point of IP is you have a built in fan base, but they're built they're they're picking from characters with the smallest fan bases. It's just
Alfredo Brown:This to me feels like they're they're they're really wanting to do representation, but that they don't necessarily care enough to do it the right way. They just wanna say we did it. It's a Yeah. It's, yes, it's a checkbox. Like, that's it.
Alfredo Brown:Like, let's get this off the resume to say, look at how diverse we are. And I don't I don't wanna travel down that road because
Matt Kopfhamer:I was gonna say it's a holdover from the Biden administration.
Alfredo Brown:Okay.
Matt Kopfhamer:Alright.
Alfredo Brown:Thanks a lot, Biden.
Jagger May:And now we're done.
Alfredo Brown:Man, you do this. Like, I think it's been five out of the last six episodes. We get to a certain point. You say something, and we're like, yeah. It's probably time to end this bitch right here.
Alfredo Brown:Where would you guys where would you guys give us, like, a score right now three episodes in? I think I'm at a six out of 10 after three episodes.
Jagger May:Yeah. Like, there's not enough to hate six. Great.
Alfredo Brown:Welcome, mister I'll
Matt Kopfhamer:give it there you go. I was gonna say. It works out. We we didn't plan it.
Alfredo Brown:It's it's Oh, man. I really hope enough to Aaron Cohen.
Jagger May:Not enough to love. I didn't My life. My name on the first, though.
Alfredo Brown:Just thumbs up.
Jagger May:It's crazy. It's just so anti Sacha Baron Cohen. Like, I think one of the reason why him and Isla Fisher got divorced to get into that is, like, literally, she couldn't bring him to parties because he didn't know who, like, Leonardo DiCaprio is. Like, this is a weird comedy dude who just like, I'm not joking, Koff. Like, he legitimately doesn't know people.
Alfredo Brown:Who's the who's the worst who's the worst possible casting it could be?
Jagger May:Rob Schneider?
Alfredo Brown:Kevin Spacey?
Matt Kopfhamer:Oh, Rob.
Jagger May:That's fucking hilarious. Like
Matt Kopfhamer:Lizzo.
Jagger May:Kevin Spacey would be so good and bad. It'd be so good and bad. Like, he would nail it. It'd be like, man, you guys got Satan for real. Like, you
Matt Kopfhamer:got Honestly, Danny DeVito's
Alfredo Brown:It's it's it's the Mac meme where it's almost kinda like, oh my god. That's disgusting. Where? Where? Where?
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Like,
Jagger May:almost wanna see it, but I don't.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah.
Jagger May:It's so on point. You know? It's
Alfredo Brown:it's too on the nose. Yeah. Alright. I think that's gonna that's gonna do it for us here. So we've gone almost an hour on the first three episodes here of Ironheart, but this was this was fun.
Alfredo Brown:We're gonna be back again for episodes four through six reacting to that finale, giving you a review of that and discussing how, you know, obviously, all this is gonna tie into the greater MCU. And guys, we've got a bunch of different shows that are coming out right now. You got the bears dropping tonight, Squid Game. We got big movies, Jurassic World Rebirth, which is also had some mixed reviews.
Matt Kopfhamer:I think we're really excited for Love it.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. I know. The Dino Source.
Jagger May:Dino Source.
Alfredo Brown:Really excited for Dino. Really excited for Superman. We're excited for Fantastic Four. Can't wait for that stuff to come out. And so we'll be back again next week on Monday.
Alfredo Brown:As always, I wanna thank everybody for watching and listening all the way through for myself, for Koff, for Jag. We'll see you next time.
