What went wrong with the final episodes of Ironheart, man? This show and these characters had so much potential all for it to be wasted in one of Marvel's biggest disappointments yet? We're gonna discuss all that and more on an auto episode of Unbinge starting.
Jagger May:This is your one warning that this is spoilers for Ironheart and everything that's came out on the entire MCU. If we spoiled it for you, we probably did you a favor.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Alright, guys. That's the nicest way to put that, Jag. Honestly. I'll be honest, doc.
Jagger May:It's like, just watch the like, I would never say go like, most of are like, go watch the show. Then come talk to us. You know? Watch this.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Go watch a recap. Then Watch a recap.
Jagger May:Then go watch it with, like yeah. Like, don't go in there
Alfredo Brown:I'm gonna go out
Matthew Kopfhamer:on a
Alfredo Brown:limb here and say this might be better than a recap. Might even just be better. Yeah. Like, honestly It's not If whether you watch the show or you didn't, if you're you're just here, like, just enjoy it. Because right now, we're gonna start off with everything that we felt went wrong with this.
Alfredo Brown:I think the best way to look at it is just the finale because that's this was a six episode miniseries. That's what it led to, the finale. And, Jack, I wanna start this off with you because I think we all left this show feeling very underwhelmed, very disappointed. Where were you after this show, and and where do you feel like it went wrong?
Jagger May:I texted you. I'm still coping in whether a lot of my frustration. I won't call it anger because, like, I I didn't leave mad. Like, I left the theater. But a lot of my frustration I don't know if it's because they spent weeks telling me how good it is.
Jagger May:They had Robert Downey Jr. Making fucking TikToks about this thing, about the finale. And then I got something that was really cool with Sasha Baron Cohen, and then a lot of meh and a lot of the feeling that we were supposed to get a season two, and we weren't. And I'm just I'm just tired, man. That's where I'm at is I'm tired because they could they've had one or two ways.
Jagger May:They could have led even more directly into Doomsday, then it's like, great. Now I gotta tell my fiance who watches MCU with me like it's PAW Patrol that she has to watch six episodes of this shit to understand the movie that we gotta go watch, or they could have given us what they what they gave us, which is it feels like a waste of time.
Alfredo Brown:That's exactly exactly how it felt. And, like, I'm I'm still deciding whether I wanna make that the title for this video, to be honest. Because, Koff, I think you might be highest on this out of all of us. I finished this saying that I was no. You're not.
Alfredo Brown:Oh, I guess we're gonna find out
Matthew Kopfhamer:towards the end. I'll just give you my score now. It's a six and a half. Like, it's it's
Alfredo Brown:You're a six and half?
Matthew Kopfhamer:It has its fun moments, but it's overall, like you said, Jack, a waste of time. They really didn't expand the lore on any of the magic that they use. There's like magic suit that does kind of magic. Oh, it killed the AI, which I kinda have a theory about that. But if it is true, then that's such a subtle way to play that theory that it goes over everyone's head everything.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That that's still one of
Alfredo Brown:the show. Let's talk about it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So I think the initial AI, Natalie, that she uses from the brain scan was actually Mephisto influencing her. So I think when they added the new magic to the new suit, it interfered with him and his influence, and that's what deleted her. So she wasn't able to recreate that AI because it was technically Mephisto influencing her. But the problem with that theory is they didn't reveal that. And, b, if that is the truth, you need to give a little bit more hint than, oh, magic interfered with magic, and you don't explain that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So, again, they may have been trying to be so clever that they just kinda went over everyone's head. And that's a problem in and of itself. Sometimes you need to explain things in a way that makes sense to the audience, and other times you need to stop overexplaining everything like, I'm gonna knee in the groin now, Joe.
Jagger May:I wonder if they sliced and spliced this shit to death, man. Because it genuinely feels like there's chunks missing. Where, like Yes. I I I'm close to giving this a five where this is at, but I could see where it's a six and a half because there is some good in here. But I'm just tired
Matthew Kopfhamer:of justifying. Yeah.
Jagger May:I'm I'm just tired of justifying shit, man.
Alfredo Brown:That's what makes me more mad, is that it's got good bones. It's almost like someone walked in, they saw what the house could be, and it was just like, you know what's gonna look good here? Polka dots.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Shag carpeting.
Jagger May:Carpet in the kitchen.
Matthew Kopfhamer:On the walls. Yes.
Jagger May:Psycho shit.
Alfredo Brown:Psycho shit.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You know what the bathroom needs? A stripper pole. Like like, what are we doing?
Alfredo Brown:Wait a second. That's not a bad call.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And more Carpet on the toilet. Carpet on the Carpet in the shower. Fuck it.
Alfredo Brown:Iron carpet.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Got it. Iron carpet.
Alfredo Brown:Dude, like, this it's it's so frustrating because, Koff, you said, like, honestly, your theory about Mephisto influencing Riri Williams and influencing the AI, Natalie, would actually have been brilliant. And I would have loved reveal. And it's, like, the only thing from this show that they didn't explain through dialogue. Everything had to be everything. Every piece of dialogue was exposition.
Alfredo Brown:I I have to read. I have to read the final monologue here from Ezekiel Stane where where first first of all, Riri has to tell him and tell the audience ahead of time, I'm gonna knee you in the nads. That's how we're gonna do a factory reset on you, which
Jagger May:Works on
Matthew Kopfhamer:me. Dumb. That's mean But a kick in the nuts, and then you gotta go to sleep for a minute.
Alfredo Brown:I mean and then and then he finishes with, I have billions of dollars of tech inside of me and nowhere to put this anger. Just know that you and I aren't done. What the fuck, man?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Sounds like wet fart.
Jagger May:If if you have
Matthew Kopfhamer:no problems,
Jagger May:it sounds like a dude that say, you left me with blue balls, and now what am I gonna do
Matthew Kopfhamer:with it?
Alfredo Brown:Like, I don't know. Go to therapy. Like
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. This this is a dude that seriously needs therapy, taking it out on, like, his friend who he has been friend zoned by. Oh god.
Jagger May:It's just I feel so bad for Alden Aaron Rock. Like, buddy, like
Alfredo Brown:He was doing his best.
Jagger May:That's what I'm saying.
Alfredo Brown:It's not fault.
Jagger May:I was like, you are so good. They just keep giving you garbage. It's like, hot the solo movie you were set up to fail, and I'm and I'm like, it's Disney money. So he did this, and he was set up to fail. Get give homie a good franchise and a good role, and I think he's gonna crush it.
Jagger May:Because it's just it's hard it's like you said, Alfredo. It's heartbreaking. Because you're like, you you can see greatness. You could see something cool, but you can't touch it. It's like a it's like you're trying to eat candy, but you still have the plastic wrapping on it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:The wrapping on it. Can get on it.
Alfredo Brown:It's the cheese with the red wax on it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. It's cheese.
Alfredo Brown:That's terrible.
Jagger May:I ate a whole ass sandwich like
Matthew Kopfhamer:that the other day. What's what's the opposite of a glow up? Because that's what they did to poor Joe. Like, they went from being a slub to, like, a Timu version of Cole McGrath from Infamous. Like, it was so disappointing.
Alfredo Brown:Deep cut?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Honestly, like
Alfredo Brown:We don't know what that is.
Matthew Kopfhamer:When he shaved head and then the lightning powers, I was like, oh, cool. It's, like, 2007 again.
Jagger May:But it just We were doing a lot of characters like that. You remember that one that Star Wars game?
Alfredo Brown:Force Unleashed? Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Star Killer. Star Killer. Yeah. Same thing. Same thing.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. And it just it just felt so, like you said, I mean, I I think the best word to describe this overall show is just disappointing because Yeah. You go in and they're like, hey. We're gonna give you a fucking Wagyu steak, and you get, like, a chopped Philly cheesesteak instead, which is like We got a lot of Philly
Alfredo Brown:metaphors and house metaphors on this show.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's We're all gonna
Jagger May:brains are at.
Alfredo Brown:Also, Alden Ehrenreich, can we you said let's give a franchise? Why don't we just go full Harrison Ford with him? Let him be the next Indiana Jones. We we gotta let him ruin that?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Stop it.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Oh, Jags in.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Stop it.
Alfredo Brown:Jags in.
Jagger May:Blade Runner, man. Blade Runner, Jags.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Don't ever make any okay. Sure. Fuck it.
Jagger May:What is Jack Ryan? Someone's doing that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's the
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Jon Krasinski. No.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Jon Krasinski.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. I don't want Whatever. We're gonna find something for Alden Ehrenreich.
Jagger May:Yeah. We'll we'll he'll get one. He should Put
Matthew Kopfhamer:him in Harry Potter. He should be the new state. Make him the new state.
Jagger May:No. I think they're gonna make
Alfredo Brown:him new state.
Jagger May:And we're getting a we're getting away from the topic. This this is how bad the show is. It's like we're
Alfredo Brown:so ready to, like We'd rather talk about other things that all that Aaron
Matthew Kopfhamer:Frank can do.
Alfredo Brown:I'll say this, man. Like, we'll get to some of the positive stuff. We will. I promise. There was just it wasn't a long show, but we keep kind of harping on the fact that it felt like a waste of time because because you get to episode six.
Alfredo Brown:And I didn't care about the stakes for any of these characters, for Parker Robins, for his team of of merry bandits Misfits. Yeah. Even for rereads, if I'm being honest, like, there really didn't feel like any stakes. It felt like the whole premise of this show was I want to make something iconic. By the way, most of the people I already love are dead, and I lost something that actually wasn't real anyways that I kept repeating throughout the show is not real, but now I care about it.
Alfredo Brown:And then it when she does that, it's all to put magic in the suit that she does not use in the final battle. In a really short final battle where we get fake Morbius in there for a second with Parker Robinson.
Jagger May:Time. Oh, it's a brag. It was totally morbid. I'm so happy someone else saw that because I'm like, this is straight up Morbius, dog.
Matthew Kopfhamer:This is
Alfredo Brown:What was the point, man? Like, what was This was It's the
Matthew Kopfhamer:and they didn't
Jagger May:even kill him off. They didn't even kill him off.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Because He's still alive.
Jagger May:I was like I was like,
Matthew Kopfhamer:you you're talking about this war?
Jagger May:It's just and and that's Alfredo, you said it. That's the biggest problem with this. It's like, I I just watched Echo too. Like, news flash people. I'm watching the entire MCU.
Jagger May:It's like all these characters that they try to put feelings in. I don't care about. I don't care if Cousin Biscuits is gonna be around or he's gonna return from Doomsday. I don't give a shit. Man.
Jagger May:It's just like Parker Robins. Well, where is he gonna be at Doomsday? Don't care. I don't care where he's in in this show. You shoulda killed him so I can move on.
Jagger May:And They couldn't
Alfredo Brown:have given us even, like, a little bit more on that character to be like, why he's actually scary, why we should actually care. Like, Mephisto was
Matthew Kopfhamer:why Mephisto? Parker. Why
Jagger May:why Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Or why did Mephisto choose him? He just seems like some, like, a gutter level punk who Mephisto's like, alright. I'm gonna give you magic now for no fucking reason.
Jagger May:And and does Mephisto have bills in hell? So it's just like, I need to I need to get
Matthew Kopfhamer:I need a billionaire.
Alfredo Brown:I'm recruiting a team.
Jagger May:Yeah. Give me give me these Nepo babies so I can
Alfredo Brown:He was looking at him the way the Nuggets were looking at Carmelo Anthony back in, like, the two thousand one NBA draft. Like, this was like he was getting some sort of prized possession. It's just like,
Jagger May:no, man. And the only
Matthew Kopfhamer:thing we do
Alfredo Brown:with backstory was was him telling his dad
Matthew Kopfhamer:who gets who gets rid of
Alfredo Brown:a 12 year old boy. And the dad was cold as hell. Dad was just like That
Matthew Kopfhamer:was funny.
Alfredo Brown:I didn't want you.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That was funny. Yeah. You're a liability. Had to get rid of you.
Alfredo Brown:Nothing I don't know what
Jagger May:to tell you, dog. I don't know what to tell you. When it cut my loss He's pretty honest. I thought I thought you were a shitty kid. I don't know, man.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But at that moment, that's when the entire fucking his entire plot falls apart because it's like, that's not how fucking corporate takeovers happen. You don't just go, alright, you're the you're the CEO, sign this, and now all of a sudden I'm the CEO. Like, that's not how this fucking works.
Jagger May:And and actually No. And actually, they didn't even really hint at that. I guess they hinted at it, but what I mean, it's like a hint as in LaCroix has a hint of lemon in it. It's not lemon fucking flavored, and I love LaCroix. You know?
Jagger May:But it's it's not like a lemonade or anything or fucking Sprite. They basically said, alright. Well, why are you hitting all these people? What are you doing? What are you taking over?
Jagger May:And you have to understand the plot of succession without watching succession to get what Parker is doing. It's again where they had to tell a lot of this plot, and even when they did tell it, they didn't even have enough time
Matthew Kopfhamer:to explain
Jagger May:half of it. And it and it's like you said, was just an angry little boy afterward. Just like, I'm gonna I'm gonna eat
Matthew Kopfhamer:I want my daddy's house.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Dude, when when Ezekiel Stane is there calling him out, like, okay. Now what? You're just gonna play house in a stupid hood and, like, a robe eating food? Like, the obnoxious amount of food that was like it just and I hate this because this is not who we are.
Alfredo Brown:Like, we don't sit here especially and watch nerd shows like this and movies and just complain the whole way through. Right? Like, this is not and and for anyone that's here, it's like, oh, thank god. They're finally telling it how it is. The black girl can't run a show.
Alfredo Brown:Like, that's not it at all. Okay? That is it's I'm just being honest, man. Like, we can cut the bullshit. A lot of people were putting bad reviews in the show because of that, because it's a it's a Latino male, villain, because it's a black female lead.
Alfredo Brown:Like, there's a million and one things. That's not the reason that this show was bad. The show was bad because it was a big fucking waste of time. It went nowhere. It did nothing.
Alfredo Brown:And honest like, cough, I was telling you before this, man. This was coded as a show that was supposed to be empowering for people of color and for people in the LGBTQ community. And, honestly, all it was was just a vehicle for them to introduce Mephisto. Like, this did nothing to empower anyone in either of those communities. It was a big waste of the show.
Alfredo Brown:And can you even explain
Jagger May:like like, realistically, if you don't know who Mephisto is we're fucking nerds. I've got comics back here. I know who Mephisto is. Did you know who Mephisto is? Did you actually learn I believe so.
Jagger May:Or or clearly he's a demon or some type of Satan. But, like, did you were you excited for more Sacha Baron Cohen? That's about it. That's it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right. One of the I thought it was I think one of the he was fantastic in his limited role. Like, I thought he did a fantastic job switching between his American and British accent, going from being like this almost jovial character to, like, this menacing character. And then finally offering the the and and goddamn it. I hated when Riri did it, but when Parker did it, it made sense.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But when he's like, alright. Do we have a deal? And they take the deal immediately without and they're like, what's the cost? He's like, oh, nothing you'll you'll miss. And then they don't push back on that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It's like Yeah. Parker ask a follow-up fucking question. At least be like, what do you mean I'm not gonna miss it?
Alfredo Brown:This is why you are where you are, Parker. You don't ask even one question. Offensive
Jagger May:to He's offensive criminal. Like, criminals are not this fucking dumb. Like, normal petty, I do crack and and steal. Copper criminals do.
Matthew Kopfhamer:TVs. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. But, like Copper. Shout out front
Matthew Kopfhamer:end Construction trades.
Jagger May:Exactly. But where Parker is, you have to be smart. Crime, you can't be a stupid criminal and be a professional You
Alfredo Brown:do a white collar crime, my guy. When
Matthew Kopfhamer:he fired his entire team, he's like, you're all fired. I was like, oh, this is
Jagger May:That was another cop out.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Dumb.
Jagger May:You're willing to kill Eric Andre. You can't even just fire him. Yeah. You're gonna You're gonna leave you're gonna leave a whole team of lucids who figured out you were killing people because of your piss.
Alfredo Brown:Pissed at you. It would have been so much to raise the stakes for his character
Jagger May:for us like,
Alfredo Brown:oh, damn. Yeah. He kills all of them, and we get to see the power set. We get to see why Riri should be afraid of him. Everything was just this understanding that Riri's like, my family is in danger.
Alfredo Brown:I'm gonna turn a car into a into a a robot machine for me to wear so
Matthew Kopfhamer:I have to hire noon? In an afternoon. Hey. The fuck kind of pacing is this?
Alfredo Brown:With a box of scraps.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Oh, in, like, three months?
Jagger May:I heard that's a meme now.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Oh, god. I just the show's pacing is so fucking baffling because you you're telling me that Slow.
Jagger May:And fast.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Exactly. It's like The important you're telling me.
Alfredo Brown:Important parts were fast, and the parts that none of us cared about were
Matthew Kopfhamer:so slow. Exactly.
Alfredo Brown:We got, like, twenty minutes of her living in that, like Building. Projection of her childhood, and I was just like, I don't want this. Yes.
Matthew Kopfhamer:The barf.
Alfredo Brown:I don't want this.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But you're telling me that so John dies. Mephisto somehow tells Parker this is that that Riri did it. And then Parker's like, alright. We're gonna kill Riri. The entire team is in an instant, like, yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:We're cool with just straight up murder now. And then she kicks all their ass, which cool. Fine. But then they just see me. They're like, alright.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I guess we lose, and we're gonna go
Alfredo Brown:off this stuff. Cool. Because I was watching this with my wife who was, like, barely paying attention while she was working, and she's like, wait. Aren't those two supposed to be really good at hand to hand combat? Riri isn't.
Jagger May:Yeah. Thank you.
Alfredo Brown:But, like, give her give her a fry basket, and all of a sudden, she's Jackie Chan. Like, it just made absolutely no sense.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Not even I so frustrating. Chalked it up to plot armor. I was like, fine. Whatever. I I know she's not gonna lose here.
Jagger May:Before we talk about the good, can you guys give me the floor? Just a second.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yes. Please. Take it away.
Jagger May:Black people look at me. Come closer. I know we saw a black girl in STEM, and this is really good for us. But I need us to have a moment with Marvel like we all did with Tyler Perry. This fucking sucks, man.
Jagger May:This is not good. It it is important to have representation, but now it's more important than ever to have quality representation.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Good representation. We need quality. Yeah.
Jagger May:Yes. This is white people saying we need the black vote, and they're giving us, like, garbage. You know, this
Matthew Kopfhamer:this is what this Pelosi kneeling in a in the cheeky. Yeah.
Jagger May:Yes. Yeah. Mhmm. So that I just wanted to give you guys it's okay to say this sucks, man. Just say it.
Jagger May:Take a deep breath and say, this fucking
Matthew Kopfhamer:deserve better. We deserve better.
Alfredo Brown:Breathe it in, my boy.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Let it run. Let it run. We are the rhino. Thank you.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Good god.
Jagger May:I just had to say, man, because I feel like we can't. Feel like we can't. Everyone's just like, well, I don't want Elon to win if I say this sucks. It sucks, man. Elon wins every time we put out a terrible fucking movie or show.
Jagger May:You know? Dominique Thorne was great. All these people, all this stuff, the music They
Matthew Kopfhamer:acted their asses off. Yeah. That's the thing. It's like, there there are good things about the show. There are good bones within this, but the they they decided to fucking put up, like, polka dot, like like, wallpaper.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And it's what are I don't understand some of the decisions they made with the final product.
Jagger May:It's if you ask white people ask chat GPT. It's like, what do black people like? And this
Matthew Kopfhamer:is what they got. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:I'm not gonna lie.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Like, even just those two
Alfredo Brown:even just the two Latino people in this show, Anthony Ramos and Manny Montana, the guy who plays his cousin John, like, it was not great. Like, it was
Matthew Kopfhamer:not But speaking of John
Alfredo Brown:one beat the whole time.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Oh, yeah. But speaking of John, if I'm a fist, though, I'd be going after John. Like, he's the more capable cousin. Like, he's the one that has the wear like,
Jagger May:he's the one that's dry. Baby. He's not
Matthew Kopfhamer:a And that's true. He's not rich. That's right. Not rich. Not worth his time.
Jagger May:But we don't know his motives.
Alfredo Brown:John John kinda seemed like a little
Matthew Kopfhamer:bit of
Alfredo Brown:a bitch. Not gonna lie. He was just following his cousin for just for no reason. Loyalty. He was just like, I'll do whatever you say.
Jagger May:Well, he got a cool hood, guys.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I was gonna say, he had a I'm gonna go with places.
Jagger May:Look look a little cuss, buddy.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's like, you know, your cousin shows up with an AK. Yeah. Your cousin shows up with, like, a bazooka. You're like, alright. I guess I'll do what you say because you have a bigger gun.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Like, that's all it is. Well, it's
Jagger May:more fun than that. It's like when it's like when your cousin gets the new PlayStation. You know? Guess who becomes your favorite cousin? You know?
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Did we get did we get all the boohoos out? We got all the things that we didn't like about
Jagger May:the show out? I actually have compliments. I have honest
Alfredo Brown:I'm yeah. I think I'm ready. I do have some nice things to say. Jack, why don't you start us off?
Jagger May:There were times where the detail were really good, and they are and I wanna say that there's good moments and really good scenes. And, like, I know we already talked about this. The Mephisto scene was so well directed and I don't know if this was intentional but I love the callback to get out where he's really trying to like work on Riri and even has a little cup, does a little tink. Like, for us, like, get out with such a huge in the spoon?
Matthew Kopfhamer:You see
Jagger May:the reflection in spoon and everything in there? Yeah. Like, like, all of that was just so well made. And to save it for the very end and to make it so convoluted, it it just hurt because it was so well done. And the other thing is, you wanna talk about this being corny to black people.
Jagger May:This was very well scored. Like, the music in here was fantastic. It was needle drop after needle drop. I was like, whoever did their job here tried, and that matters. And then
Alfredo Brown:Ryan Kugler's got a good music person. I don't think I've come across a single project he's done where the music wasn't
Jagger May:It's Ludwig Goranson is who it is. That's why it's good. Is he really? I I don't know if it's for this
Alfredo Brown:one, but nine times out
Jagger May:of 10, it's Ludwig Goranson for for him.
Alfredo Brown:He he he crushes.
Jagger May:Yeah. He makes Child of Scambino's beats, so it's gonna be dope. But I I yeah. I thought it was really good. And, of course, like, I wanna give credit to Dominique Thorne.
Jagger May:I think she's fantastic. She just is in a shitty show, and I'm sorry.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think listening.
Matthew Kopfhamer:The best they could.
Alfredo Brown:They could. Yeah. Yeah. And I I think that's the thing we can look at here is, like, the actors were it's like watching your favorite football team and, like, man, this is a good roster. And then those players end up being good on a different team.
Alfredo Brown:It's like being a Dolphins fan, golf, you and me. Like, we always have these players on our team. Like, man, they got so much potential, and they go literally anywhere else. And it's like, oh, they took off. Good for them.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Mhmm. And and, like, we we It's reverse
Matthew Kopfhamer:of being a fan.
Alfredo Brown:That's that's what it feels like right now with Ironheart is you you did have some good actors. Some of them, not so much. Like, it it wasn't always great. To have some of this good that's, like, dipped in bad, it's the Mephisto thing. Like, I love that we got Mephisto.
Alfredo Brown:I love that we finally got him. I do feel like it was a little bit of a waste, Jack. Like you said, like, we just didn't get enough of him as to, like
Matthew Kopfhamer:And don't see
Alfredo Brown:why he's doing any of this. Like, what's the what's the influence there? There was there was just so much more we could have gotten.
Jagger May:Yep. And they say it leads into doomsday. How? Like, how?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Unless unless has a deal. Unless Mephisto somehow approaches doom and and makes a deal with doom, and that's how doom gets his mystical powers. Some I don't know. I'm just speculating. What what what What I really wished what I really wished they had done because I I think you're right.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I think they did a good job with Mephisto. But, again, theme of the show leaves me wanting more. I wish they'd give us almost like a thirty second montage or as she he's talking to Riri when he's talking about I like exceptional people. And it just gives us flashes of scenes of, like, him, like, inner like, watching Wanda during WandaVision or him, like, overlooking strange or or something. I just wish they had given us a little bit more of, like, maybe there's subtle hints that Mephisto's been around a lot longer than we realize, and he's actually been subtly influencing things in a way that would make sense that leads into doomsday.
Jagger May:He includes one of the Beatles and 10 of Forbes top whatever fucking number that
Matthew Kopfhamer:I'm saying. The oh, 100 of the top 100? Yeah. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:That was great. Yeah. 100 of the top 100
Matthew Kopfhamer:and Ringo. Ringo's starring. But I wish they had given us just a little bit more of, like, maybe showing us him subtly influencing Tony when Tony made Ultron. And that's that's a way that they could have gone it. Because, again, the reason Ultron came about because Wanda did little touch magic chaos thing, and that would have been a perfect way for them to be like, actually, that was Mephisto utilizing influenced I don't know.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I just wish By
Alfredo Brown:the way, was this chaos magic that she was using?
Jagger May:The to be ready think so? Chaos manage it because, like, hang on. Here's what I wanted to say. As I love magical comics, this was such a great entry in comparison to Agatha other stuff because I was like, it this is chaos magic. I'm like, what is that?
Jagger May:Dark side and light side? Because, like, that's like, to me, this is just odd.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It's magic. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:But, like Woah. But also this she was able just to use the magic. Dominic Thorne's character. Like, Riva was able to use the magic with the suit. Is it just that ruins?
Matthew Kopfhamer:The ruins.
Alfredo Brown:The ruins. Like, that
Jagger May:that's differently. But that's me explaining it.
Alfredo Brown:The problem. That's the problem.
Jagger May:Yeah. That's what that's the problem, Alfredo. It's like, I literally have live runes tattooed on me. I'm, like, way too far out of this shit. I was like, she can use this somehow, but they don't explain any of that.
Jagger May:Is that, like Right. Technically, that's
Alfredo Brown:I'm getting at.
Jagger May:Yeah. You're using runes, and the symbols were dropped from power. And another thing, they they hint at Dormammu. I'm one way where and this is the stereotypical comic book route.
Alfredo Brown:I love you. I love my pistols like Dormammu can't even wipe my asshole. Like, glorious asshole.
Jagger May:Yeah. It's like, I wish he would have said he's like, yeah. I took that from Dormammu as and this is up to your theory, Koff, of showing Mofisto's influence. He's like, I took that from Dormammu for being a little bitch trying to take over Earth without my permission or something like that. Like, there is just Something.
Jagger May:So much more context because, like, he's right. Like, Dormammu is, like, you know, a bad mouth in the cosmos that just, like, talks shit, where Mephisto is, like, Marvel's Satan. And I and this is why I don't like multiverse either. It's, like, where does where does this
Matthew Kopfhamer:shit Yeah. They start talking about dimensions and parallel dimensions and pocket dimensions. Are there multiple Satans?
Jagger May:You know,
Matthew Kopfhamer:Is this a, this is where they've done such a horrible job. The MCU in general has done such a horrible job of keeping things consistent and concise since end game. And they've just kind of thrown concepts and thrown terms, you know, and see trying to see what sticks to the wall. And, and we're left with a fucking huge Jackson Pollock looking mess because they're just throwing all these different magical systems without explaining them well, without giving them, true boundaries. And it's like, okay, What is the limit of these power sets?
Matthew Kopfhamer:And we don't know.
Alfredo Brown:The the thing that they tried to do and I love how we're like, yeah. Let's talk about the good, and we keep doing good dipped in bad is like, they tried to do this thing where they're introducing the magic, why the magic matters, and then say it comes at a cost. There's always a price. Mhmm. And I don't think we really got a good example of that.
Alfredo Brown:Like, the cost for for Riri the first time using magic was losing her AI friend, which for most of the show, was really deeming, like, you're not real. Ready to get rid of it. And then it was really
Matthew Kopfhamer:She was ready to delete it. She was ready to delete her the literal episode before when when the brother freaked out. He was like, get rid of it. And she's like, okay.
Alfredo Brown:Okay.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So you're telling me within, like, four hours, she changed like, it just the consistency wasn't there.
Alfredo Brown:Holy airball, man.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Man, holy freaking airball.
Alfredo Brown:This was a there there was enough to be disappointed about, but I I will say this. Like, there are people that are overreacting to the other side as well. I was just out of curiosity. I was scrolling through. I went over to IMDb because Rotten Tomatoes, like, those have been up and down the reviews over there.
Alfredo Brown:IMDb is nuts right now. It's at a 3.9 weight, unweighted score, and that's because 53 of people have this as a one overall, a one out of 10. And then the second highest amount of votes are for a perfect 10 out of 10. And this goes back to our last episode that we talked about here with Ironheart and with Marvel and with what happens with a lot of these characters in general when you get characters of color or characters that aren't typically put front and center, female leads, you get this overreaction from crowds. You get either hatred and vitriol, or you get pandering on the other side.
Alfredo Brown:And, honestly, it's just like Ironheart to me is an injustice to a character that actually could have been really cool, a story that could have been really cool. This ended up being such a waste.
Jagger May:Yep. And there's a writing term where I think that Marvel's in, and I've been actually googling trying to think of it, but it it there's two terms of it, two sides where you've written yourself into a knot or you have too many strings
Matthew Kopfhamer:that can't.
Jagger May:Yeah. There you go. Gordian knot. Thank you. That's what I'm looking
Matthew Kopfhamer:for. Is
Jagger May:and that's where
Matthew Kopfhamer:George R. R. Martin's in the same position with his books.
Jagger May:That's where I thank you. That's exactly where I was going towards. George RR Martin has got a Gordian knot. And right now, because we went right into multiverse, like, that that is a problem with the and I keep saying it, man. Marvel has been built out for decades.
Jagger May:And to get to the multiverse, that took decades because Yep. Like, finally at comics wrote themselves into a Gordian knot, and they're like, how do we fix this? And then Multiverse. Multiverse was the fix for it. But now since we went right to the multiverse, the multiverse is now the problem in it, where it's just like, how does Mephisto work here?
Jagger May:How does all this work? We didn't even get the Fantastic Four or Mutants or all these other things to where we even ready for multiverse. That's why it's like, I'm I'm really worried about MCU going forward. The the
Alfredo Brown:marble flex tape right now is just cameos.
Jagger May:Yeah, dude.
Alfredo Brown:Like, that's that's what it is. Like, that that's what I I wanted to say earlier, and I was forgetting is just with Mephisto, yeah, we could have gotten more, but this was also the reason we're calling it such a waste for this character to be brought into this. Mhmm. Is it just feels like Marvel's learned the wrong lesson. They went and they had Spider Man No Way Home.
Alfredo Brown:They bring in Andrew Garfield and Tobey Maguire. By the way, spoilers. Sorry if you haven't seen it. And then they do the same thing because they think that's the lesson. This is what fans want.
Alfredo Brown:They go and they do Deadpool and Wolverine. Let's bring in a bunch of cameos. And then the more and more that we keep thinking we're getting Mephisto in these shows, they string us along little by little by little. And guess what? You know who's gonna be the next big cameo to come back?
Alfredo Brown:It it maybe not a cameo, but it's gonna be Wanda because they know that that's what people are asking for. And that's what they're gonna keep doing is stringing these characters back in or doing cameos of characters that we haven't seen before or we haven't seen in a long time. And that's what it felt like to me here. It just felt like cheap optics to have a bunch of flat emotional beats that didn't hit, and then let's just bring in Mephisto because that will be the flex tape on top of what is Ironheart right now.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Mhmm. They did the same thing in in the new Captain America with Liv Tyler coming back in the cameo where she's
Alfredo Brown:on the back
Matthew Kopfhamer:of their debt.
Jagger May:Spoilers. I'm not here yet, Kyle. Oh, that's I'm actually not
Matthew Kopfhamer:Bro, it's not a spoiler.
Alfredo Brown:Had dude, she has
Matthew Kopfhamer:text for three fucking seconds.
Jagger May:Yeah. I'm not
Matthew Kopfhamer:even She's like, damn.
Alfredo Brown:She still looks great.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Phonomenal. Out there.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Just gonna throw a
Matthew Kopfhamer:little bit there.
Alfredo Brown:Age to
Matthew Kopfhamer:do. Never not look good. Nope.
Jagger May:Are we? Couple. No. But seriously
Matthew Kopfhamer:She was the best part of the leftovers, and I hate that show. So sorry.
Alfredo Brown:Never seen it. No. No. Don't
Jagger May:wait. Don't shoot Don't pick the Akoff against each other. I won't.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I won't. I'm I'm not
Alfredo Brown:gonna do this. But, like, that's that's become the Marvel problem now is, like, look. Everything has a hook. Right? Ironheart's hook was now is having Mephisto in this.
Alfredo Brown:Right? And you could kinda tell. When Robert Downey Junior's out here doing a bunch of press for you, you're like, ugh. Okay. Maybe they're trying a little too hard.
Alfredo Brown:Right? Yeah. And then to I hate to believe that Fantastic Four's hook might be that we're finally getting Galactus. I hope that the movie is good.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Well, we know that. We already know that, though. He's No. I know.
Alfredo Brown:That's a but that's what I'm saying. That's the point of a hook is they let you know ahead of time. Like, Sacha Baron Cohen was always cast as Mephisto. Like, the rumors were out there for a reason. It was the same thing in Captain America Brave New World.
Alfredo Brown:Guess what, y'all? You're getting Red Hulk. It might as well have just been titled Red Hulk. It was barely a Captain America movie. And that's the thing that all of these Marvel movies and shows have become, what's the hook?
Alfredo Brown:What's the hook? What are we getting? Daredevil was essentially, oh, shit. Punisher's back. Like, that's that's what we just kept getting over and over.
Alfredo Brown:Hawkeye was, kingpin's here. Like, there was just something, a cameo or a hook for everything Marvel has done. It's getting so frustrating to the point that it just feels hollow. Like, they're losing its their substance.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And it's like But then they try to do something different in, like, the Thunderbolts where they're as far as I remember, there were no big cameos except for maybe Bucky would be the closest thing to a No. That that's not that's not
Alfredo Brown:I don't that I don't view that as, like, a cameo or a hook. Would say the hook is finally getting sentry, which they spoiled that in the trailer.
Jagger May:Yeah. And to be honest, I think I think Thunderbolt's problem is that, like, Marvel Marvel Thunderbolt was the first movie, and it's Guardians of the Galaxy. And Guardians of Galaxy happened when we were in peak Marvel, and everyone had Marvel's trust.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah.
Jagger May:Where they're like, I don't know who any of these characters are. I don't care, though, because Marvel's cooking. I love Chris Pratt.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right.
Jagger May:So everyone went to the movie theater. Thunderbolts and this is where I I keep telling you guys, man. Like, watching this in order, like, the how could you trust Marvel? How could you
Alfredo Brown:Yeah.
Jagger May:Especially right now. How could you go pay for Thunderbolts after you just got Captain America, after they just gave you literally ten seasons of dog shit, man. Just straight ass. Why would I go to the theater for that right now when there's I I would rather go see Jurassic Park. And I hate Jurassic Park movies.
Jagger May:I love like, and I'd rather go see that.
Alfredo Brown:Catch us next Monday when we rank all of them here
Jagger May:on the YouTube channel. Hey. I've become a bigger fan, but, like, you guys know I've not wanna you guys have had to, like, force me, like, do the bird like, the bird box meme to get me to fucking.
Alfredo Brown:Koff has become a who's character? Fuck. That that Evan Peters plays where he's like, we're gonna sit down, and we're gonna watch this movie. Yeah. Notorious serial
Matthew Kopfhamer:killer. Yeah. Fucking How
Jagger May:am I forgetting this?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Who's eating? Jeff Dahmer. Jeffrey Dahmer.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Kothmos is the Jeffrey Dahmer of Jurassic World right now. It's got you're Jagger, you're gonna sit down. You're gonna watch these dinosaurs.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You're gonna enjoy it.
Jagger May:I said we're gonna watch dinosaurs.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Dino soul wars. That first movie still holds up. God damn. Does, dude.
Jagger May:And the books are great. Like I said, co Yeah. This is a case of coffee is right. Like, I am just way more excited.
Alfredo Brown:But it happens.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It doesn't happen often.
Alfredo Brown:It's exciting for you, buddy. Hold on to this until we all watch rebirth.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I'm going tonight. I'm excited.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. I saw you wrote that. You're gonna go watch it in three d?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yep.
Alfredo Brown:What are you? Eight? Yep. I haven't watched a three d movie on purpose ever.
Jagger May:Cops, I'm a get a black person. It's gonna be dope. I watched Lilo
Matthew Kopfhamer:and Stitch
Alfredo Brown:three d, and I hated myself.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I saw it as an option. Was like, you know what? Why not? Let's give it a shot.
Jagger May:I didn't know they were still making that shit, man. I didn't
Alfredo Brown:Dude, that's have you guys watched something in four d x that, like, that or whatever the thing is where, like, the chairs actually move?
Jagger May:Is it dope? I I
Matthew Kopfhamer:had somebody I had somebody come in yesterday to work, they talked about they went and saw f one in 40 x, I guess it's just about worth it. Yeah.
Jagger May:Oh, I will go see f like, I'm in like, that that's where I'm at. Like, Koff wants to watch a nineties movie. I'm like, let's watch art and then something about a sport only Europeaners love.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Only European. Lassie. And Brad Pitt's in it. Yeah. Okay.
Alfredo Brown:So from this show, like, we got I guess we got things that we that could open some doors here in the MCU, specifically Befisto and the directions that can go with magic. And I think we're probably gonna get a season two of Ironheart just because enough people have watched it. It would've seen it would it would seem Had
Jagger May:the streaming numbers came out? Is it like
Matthew Kopfhamer:Is Riri is Riri supposed to join the New Avengers at some point? Like, or
Alfredo Brown:is she a signer? Or that Young Avengers?
Jagger May:Right now, we're she's
Alfredo Brown:like the champions, I think, what you called her.
Jagger May:She's kind of out there.
Matthew Kopfhamer:She's just on her own. She's doing a Spider Man, just being on her own.
Alfredo Brown:I mean, well, there's gonna be some things that when we get to Young Avengers, there's gonna be too many threads to pull on here because Riri right now is gonna have to resolve her own shit. Because I can't imagine her going into Young Avengers whilst also holding on to, like, a deal with the devil.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And, also, like, did we see her actually do anything heroic? Like, did she didn't do anything that would be deemed like, she didn't save anybody. She used her suit for selfish purposes the entire time.
Alfredo Brown:True. She need Han Solo in the balls.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Good point.
Jagger May:You think Tony could have done that? Come on.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Can't Think not.
Jagger May:And, again, I'm trying to think is, like, it's really helped me conceptualize what's wrong with this. Because, again, it's like, how do I convince my fiance to go to the theater with me to watch champions? It's like, alright, babe. Sit down. Four seasons of shit you're gonna hate.
Jagger May:You know? Right.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Here's your homework.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Gabby's kind of watching these things passively as I have it on TV. And she'll just be like, oh, Okay, that's how it ended? Show seemed like it sucked. I'm like, yeah, no, it did.
Alfredo Brown:And I experienced all of it.
Jagger May:Amy will start, and then I'll be like then she'll be like, you can go ahead and watch it without me. I'll catch up, and then she'll never catch up.
Matthew Kopfhamer:No. She's just like, give me
Alfredo Brown:the bullet points. What happened? Okay. Sounds dumb. Cool.
Alfredo Brown:Next movie. Speaking of next movie, the effects that we can actually see here in the MCU because for some god forsaken reason, like, we we still care. Like, we we care what happens in the MCU. We wanna see what happens next. We care about these heroes and these stories.
Alfredo Brown:We want it to be good. It's the literal definition of insanity. We're like for the niche within the niche of our audience, we just keep drafting Kyle Pitts thinking it's going to work, and, like, that's us going to watch Marvel movies. Mhmm. And what are the kinda what are the cool effects that we want to see from this series with Mephisto, with magic?
Alfredo Brown:To me, I'd love to see something where how can we work Wanda back into this? What kind of effects can it have on the young Avengers slash champions? Does it have an effect on the third Doctor Strange movie? Because honestly, all I've ever wanted is for Doctor Strange in a horror movie with nightmare as his main antagonist. And I think there's so many cool directions we could go with that, but I wanna hear from you guys what what you think.
Jagger May:You nailed it. I want actual real magic, not this goofy Scooby Doo shit that we've got right now where there's, like, there's rules. There's, like, like, in anything you know about magic, no matter the IP is, like, there's always rules, and magic is always equivalent exchange. It's retired anime based on alchemy. That is the the peak of it is equivalent exchange.
Jagger May:I can't wait to see that, where we get some, like like you said, man, some real ass adult magic shit. Not like, oh, witches. Not some fucking Halloweentown shit like Agatha was.
Alfredo Brown:Halloweentown. Great movie. I wish
Matthew Kopfhamer:I wish we would get maybe if they do a season two of Ironheart, is Riri go to Carnotaj and try to train with some of the No.
Jagger May:Children's version. What do you
Matthew Kopfhamer:mean no?
Alfredo Brown:She
Matthew Kopfhamer:doesn't Why would you want that?
Jagger May:I want magical people to do magic, and I want my Ironheart people to fuck with toys and and goddamn
Matthew Kopfhamer:books. Why?
Alfredo Brown:She's supposed be for Marvel characters.
Matthew Kopfhamer:She's Yes. She's the bridge between magic and tech. So why wouldn't we wanna see her go learn more ma we saw it at the end of
Jagger May:this episode. Doom for that. We have doom for that. Okay.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I okay.
Alfredo Brown:What's her what's her name? Not Zelda. Za Zelma.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Zelma.
Alfredo Brown:Zelma. Zelma. I want I want Zama going to Strange Academy and doing that. Okay.
Matthew Kopfhamer:There we go. But I wouldn't mind seeing Riri there, like, visiting her when shit
Alfredo Brown:I think that we can end up getting some sort of a training montage with the young Avengers. Remember, she's gonna be with, what, Joe Joe Locke's character from Agatha Warlock? What was no. Not Warlock.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Oh, Wanda. Oh my gosh. Billy. It's Wanda's kid.
Alfredo Brown:Wanda. Yeah. Okay. Whatever. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Sure. Which one? Is it a Warlock? Billy. No.
Alfredo Brown:Oh my god. Like, we don't have the power of the Internet in front of us anyway. I feel like there's, like, a there could be moments within that where you've got Billy. You've got, Kamala Khan.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You got
Jagger May:I'm an idiot. I'm idiot. Okay.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Thanks. Roast me
Jagger May:in the comics. Roast
Alfredo Brown:me me the comics. That's fine. People have roasted us by now. Yeah. We deserve that.
Alfredo Brown:We're not getting that. That's so fucking funny.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But I
Alfredo Brown:feel like you could almost get these, it'll be corny, but I'd almost rather have the Young Avengers lean into being as corny as fucking possible because it's gonna be a corny premise to begin with. And, like, have them do, like, a sort of Rocky fighting Drago training montage of all these characters learning how to use their powers and training with each other. Give me that, man. Like, I'm cool with that. Do the whole You series of stuff like Divergent and Maze Runner and all these things.
Jagger May:Want Gen V, but, like, Marvel.
Alfredo Brown:Give me that. Give me that. Just lean into it. I'd love it.
Jagger May:Whatever, man. I feel like I would be happy here. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:I like so done.
Jagger May:I'd be way more happy with that if they were if I was getting the goods I I guess this is what I meant. I'm an old funny deadwood dog. If I was getting a quality steak, I would keep eating at this restaurant. But if I'm going to a steakhouse and I'm going to fill up on the ice cream, get fucked, man. Like, the dessert you you get where I'm at now?
Jagger May:Yeah. Where it's just like the boys has been consistently pretty good. Even when we're like, the boys just fell off. It's still like an eight and a half compared to some of the shit we've watched on this podcast.
Alfredo Brown:It's fair.
Jagger May:So when I go to Gen V, even when Gen V is lesser, I'm not upset and I'm willing to watch because I'm like, it's
Alfredo Brown:just adding.
Jagger May:Yeah. I like Gen V. But because it's adding to the rest of it. But, like, with Marvel, they are wanting me to really care about the vegetables on the plate. All the other shit when the actual steak and the actual thing I'm there for is not that good.
Jagger May:And that's just that's just a bad way to be. You
Alfredo Brown:know? The thing is is, like, I'm looking at these characters, these young avengers or champions, whatever they're going to call them, which, by the way, if you call them the champions, I think that's really just call them young avengers. Just lean into exactly what they are. The problem is that since these are younger characters and teenagers and some of them even kids, it's going to appeal to a younger audience. And Marvel and Disney is going to be forced to market it to a younger audience.
Alfredo Brown:So if you're gonna do that, just lean all the way in to something that's, like, corny, where you can give us the winks and nods, and we can laugh at it, almost the way like WandaVision did with the old school fifties and sixties type shows where we can laugh and at the winks and nods that we only get because they're not gonna be able to give us the dark characters. They're already doing it now with Punisher because he's gonna be in Spider Man, and it's PG 13. They're like, there's gonna be a less violent Punisher.
Jagger May:He's not gonna
Alfredo Brown:kill anybody. Because that's what we want, the frozen yogurt of Marvel characters, less violent Punisher. Like, we don't want that.
Jagger May:Here's my pushback, though. Why does this work so well with Harry Potter other stuff where it it appeals to a young audience, but my dad was locked in? My dad is an old white man. He was an old white man. For which thrill?
Jagger May:Harry Potter. Harry Potter and shit like that. For Harry Potter.
Alfredo Brown:All born brother, baby?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Because there's
Jagger May:a level He works, though.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Well, there's a level of whimsy that's there for the kids, but over the whimsy, they have an overlying, like, adult theme. Like, it was like, Harry Potter
Alfredo Brown:dark. Grew as the years go on. I get started light. It started light and got darker as its audience aged.
Jagger May:But we're going the opposite, what I'm saying with Marvel, though, where it was just like we're going for Steve dealing with losing a girl he really loved and his best friend who he thought died coming back and actually trying to kill him. And then also, hey, there's racism, and now I have a black friend. You know, there's just like a lot of these adult themes, and then now we're just like, well, I really hope Kate Bishop finds
Alfredo Brown:a You threw that in there. By the way, there's racism. Now I have a black friend. I still laugh with my wife that I think that the boys has the funniest portrayal with with our guy from Supernatural that plays basically racist Captain America.
Jagger May:Oh, I love the boys.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Jensen Ackles.
Alfredo Brown:Jensen Ackles. It's just it's hilarious. Because that's most likely what would have happened.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I don't have shell shock. Fuck you.
Jagger May:He's like, I'm gonna have a couple of kids raise them to be men, and that's code for I'm gonna hit my kids.
Matthew Kopfhamer:He's such a fucking disappointment. Oh god. Such a good character. So Terrible character, but fun.
Alfredo Brown:Young Avengers, what's your excitement level with the after see so we've seen pretty much all of the characters Dang.
Jagger May:Like that? Some more. Doc.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I think I'm at I
Alfredo Brown:didn't even let you
Matthew Kopfhamer:know what middle I'm at a middling five. Like, I couldn't care less if they actually release that project or not now.
Jagger May:Tom Hafford won.
Alfredo Brown:So we have no excitement. It doesn't sound like there's really, like, the faith for that project to come out. It just feels like they got all their opportunities. They took so many swings at it, and it's like, you know what we're gonna do is we're gonna take a bunch of mid, put it in a bowl, mix it up, which, by the way, I like miss Marvel. That was one my favorites.
Jagger May:That's all. But it's but they put miss Marvel in the Marvels. I haven't even watched that yet. I'm not even there yet.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But honestly, very freaking
Jagger May:guys are that's what I'm saying. You guys are honest about it, and you're like, it's not that good. And all I have is just, like, the minority crowd. I'm one of you, but, like, we're in that like, if I say it, the whites win if I say it's bad, the whites win stage. So it's like, I'm
Matthew Kopfhamer:just not excited to watch it.
Jagger May:You know? Would you rather think of the Marvels
Alfredo Brown:these characters into the Avengers then?
Jagger May:No. Like, just just then nuke it and do a good job. And just start over.
Alfredo Brown:Well, like, oh my god. I'm having such a brain fart day today. Who's our girl from Sinners? Mary? Haley.
Alfredo Brown:Josh Allen. Haley. Haley. Haley. You wouldn't wanna keep seeing her in the Marvel Universe?
Jagger May:No. I wanted to go off and be free and make good movies. And I want them to nuke this shit and nuke 52 it, DC Rebirth, whatever version you wanna say. It's just like, I want you to hit the x on the Xbox and reset this.
Alfredo Brown:I'm waiting for Jagger just to ask me. He's like, so have you ever gone hunting? You ever had to make
Matthew Kopfhamer:a kill? It's like, yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Took me three hours to do it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:The smartest thing they could do now that they have the rights to Fantastic Four, they have the rights to X Men is do that hard reset and start over with
Jagger May:the fucking
Matthew Kopfhamer:characters we want the most. Yeah. Goddamn. It's not rocket science, but they You need
Jagger May:to put the Avengers to bed. And I mean, like, you need to make Sam Wilson this other character that's kind of out there. Yeah. And you focus on the Fantastic Four. X Men is so goddamn huge.
Jagger May:X Men has, like, six teams where, like, you could redo all of this. You can you can redo your whole Avengers thing where you have fucking professor x wheel on up there. It's just like, I'm starting a team. You know? You he tells him, like, telepathically.
Alfredo Brown:I really, really wanted you to pick a voice for that one. Couldn't pick. Maybe your CCH pounder for Mustache Xavier.
Jagger May:I'm pregnant.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Goddamn it, Scarabacc. Magneto.
Jagger May:I'm just saying they have options, but they won't do it. They they won't do the thing because there's Bob Iger that's just sitting there with this big cigar saying, we need to sack the
Matthew Kopfhamer:Disney princesses. Kevin Feige needs to step down. He needs they need a new creative oversight.
Jagger May:And Luis Luis Desposito.
Alfredo Brown:Luis Desposito. Yep.
Jagger May:Yeah. They all especially him because he's running TV. That's garbage, dog. Like, that's dude.
Alfredo Brown:It's sad when you see these these execs sorta, like, go into this this era where you're just you don't enjoy their stuff anymore. Like, that I felt like that happened with Kathleen Kennedy in Star Wars for a little bit. Fast. And then, like, we're starting to flirt with that. Well, I mean, Kennedy was a part of the original Star Wars movies.
Alfredo Brown:So it's like she's been there for a minute. But then, that that sorta like, we got to see a little bit of that with Dave Filoni on certain projects that didn't do well. And our our oh my gosh. Jon Favreau as well, final season of Mandalorian. That's so true.
Alfredo Brown:It's it's worrisome. It's worrisome to see that with Marvel. Man. Alright. All things
Jagger May:are missing. And I'm just gonna say one thing while we're sitting on it. We're sitting on it. And I just I've meant to say this for, like, six Marvel pods that we've had. Marvel's problem is Disney, where Disney has put their method in and expect it to work.
Jagger May:Meaning that it's the Disney princess method, where they're not trying to make a story anymore. They're like, alright. Let's give them a black Disney princess. Let's give them this. And that's kind of how we've built our Avengers now.
Jagger May:And and that method is just not working. You need to write a script and you need to have it good. Should you put representation in your script? Yeah. But you can't just say, alright.
Jagger May:Good enough. There's a black in it, and then go ship it out.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Don't just check
Alfredo Brown:the felt. Exactly. That's how
Jagger May:this You just checked
Alfredo Brown:the boxes. Felt like it checked all the boxes for for the people of color, for the LGBTQ community. Like, this is, and once again, our podcast is very far from being yeah. That's what I was gonna say, man. It's just like, our podcast is very far from that.
Alfredo Brown:But, like, this is why you get the people that complain about DEI because then Disney, Marvel put out stuff like this, and it just I I don't know. Like, I'm not we never did this thing where we tell people, hey. If you liked this, you were you're wrong. I gotta be honest. Like, if you look at this and you think this was a 10 out of 10, like, I gotta tell you, you you you missed.
Alfredo Brown:I
Matthew Kopfhamer:would say this is bad, but
Jagger May:No. Let's not let's not disparage. But I think that you gotta worry about your temp you're chasing temporary success for negative outcomes in the future. I think that's the best way. For us to say, let's get this one little win over the conservatives, we are putting ourselves in a bad hole where we are constantly got mediocrity.
Jagger May:We have only just dug ourselves out of the Tyler Perry hole. I will say that till I die. Like, we finally got Jordan Peele. We finally got Ryan Coogler. We finally got people making good things that are black to where we don't have to only look at Tyler Perry anymore.
Jagger May:If we continue to do this, something as cool as comics that have been mainstream, that's just gonna go back to being corny bullshit again if we continue just to allow it and and we accept everything. That's my speech. Sorry.
Alfredo Brown:Dude, like, this is yeah. I mean, you you nailed it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:We did we deserve more at the end of the day. We deserve more
Jagger May:sales. Better as a viewer. I'm saying that you deserve better.
Alfredo Brown:Yes.
Jagger May:And you should stop accepting bullshit. I'm not saying your opinion is bad. I'm saying that you are strong and you deserve the best quality content. Disney has fucking money. They pay Stephen a Smith a fuck ton of money to say bullshit.
Jagger May:They can make you better content.
Alfredo Brown:My favorite is Jag looking directly into the camera to be like, pay attention. Bring it in. Give me my one shot.
Jagger May:I have autism. I don't make eye contact. Listen.
Alfredo Brown:I I think that projects like this need our support Yeah. To watch it. But if something is bad, like, Jack, you you said it. Like, we deserve It's even more on people deserve it.
Jagger May:On us to say that it's that it we deserve better.
Alfredo Brown:Like, at that point, putting out content that is bad for the sake of of checking a box is more offensive than not doing it at that point. Mhmm. It's harmful. It sets
Jagger May:you back. Us back. It's setting us back.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. 100%. 100%. By the way, I'm a character that I can't wait to see what ends up happening with her. Storm in the new X Men because I think that's gonna be one of the like coolest characters that could make a big leap in the Marvel Universe because right now, Jack, I'll say it, man.
Alfredo Brown:Black people don't have a lot to cheer for in the Marvel Universe. Was it was T'Challa at one point.
Jagger May:That's all we had. And I just watched Black Panther, Wakanda Forever. You know that movie would have been dope if it just had Black Panther in it, dog? Like, it actually would have been pretty fucking fire if it was just T'Challa. And it and I and I hate that for like, we're just not ready for Shuri, and, like, we had to deal with the whole I'm upset.
Alfredo Brown:I don't think Shuri was ready for Shuri.
Jagger May:No. Exactly. That's yeah. That's that that's what could have been, man. We should have just recasted it.
Jagger May:It would've been dope with T'Challa.
Alfredo Brown:Well, apparently, they're apparently, they're it's rumored that
Jagger May:they're doing that, that it's
Alfredo Brown:gonna be, like, an alternate Damson, Idris, or whatever.
Jagger May:Yeah. Homie from Medifline.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That'll be, like, an alternate universe T'Challa. That'll be cool.
Alfredo Brown:Cool. Willing to give it a shot. Okay. Let's finish this up here like we always do with every show or movie. We give it a rating one to 10.
Alfredo Brown:We did this for the first three episodes. Let's do it for the series as a whole. Jag, where do you stand with Ironheart on a scale of one to 10?
Jagger May:Five, man. I can't I can't, good conscious and responsibility, give this a six. Like, we deserve better. Everyone involved deserves better. Alden, Aaron Reich, Dominique Thorne, new black girl who played Natalie.
Jagger May:I I will learn her name. I did think she was good at what she did. Our homie, was it Anthony Ramos? Is that his name?
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Anthony Ramos.
Jagger May:Yeah. He deserves better. We all deserve better. Cough?
Matthew Kopfhamer:I'll give it a six. I think I might have been slightly higher on it. Just because this is something I could throw on in the background at, at, at some point in the future and I wouldn't be bad at it.
Jagger May:That's all Marvel kind of though. But
Matthew Kopfhamer:no, there are certain, like, are certain shows that like, if it's a five, like I'm never gonna watch it again. Like, this one, I could see, like, I could see in the future sitting down again and, like, rewatching it and being mad again. But but this isn't something that I'll shelve forever, which I think a five or lower is.
Alfredo Brown:I'm I'm at a five. I'm at a five, and it's not because I'll never watch this, but it's mostly because it feels like such a wasted opportunity. It's It's fair. Sitting at the free throw line down by one game on the line, and you've just legitimately fucking airballed it. Crazy.
Alfredo Brown:Something that could have been the the game tire, the game winner, whatever you wanna call it, and that's that's what happened here, man. Like, it was honestly a big waste, and I'm actually like, I'm disappointed that Ryan Coogler's name is attached to it as an EP because I don't I we've seen so much of his stuff and how successful it's been, and this just didn't feel like it had him on it at all from the script to the pacing to everything. I know, Jack. You don't
Matthew Kopfhamer:like that. Probably barely he's probably barely involved other than himself.
Alfredo Brown:No. It's just it's just name. It's just name. That's why I'm saying, like, I'm disappointed his name is tied to it. Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:Fair enough. Jag, you're watching She Hulk right now. How are you enjoying it?
Jagger May:I understand what She Hulk is as a comic and what they wanted to do. Their biggest problem was CGI, and I think they've went back and fixed stuff because it actually looks better than when I've seen it. The ending is dumb of that, and I know it. But, like, right now, I'm only, like, two episodes in. And, like, I'm not gonna lie.
Jagger May:That Giganta, whatever her name is, Jameela Jamal, like, that was corny too. Her coming in with, like, the anime side kick. I was like, oh, this is why this show fucking sucks. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It's that great. It
Alfredo Brown:was that great. Alright, guys. We are going to be back again next week. It's gonna wrap it up for us. We're gonna be back again next week.
Alfredo Brown:We're gonna be watching Jurassic World Rebirth. We're gonna rank that amongst all of the other Jurassic Park and Jurassic World movies, let you guys know where we put that. And, honestly, it's gonna be fun to discuss all those other movies in that whole universe. We got the Superman movie coming out soon. JAG's gonna be giving you everything you need to know before watching Superman.
Alfredo Brown:We got the Fantastic Four. And, also, we got some early access screening to go see that, though, the Amazon Prime tickets. So I'm excited to go see that a little early. Maybe we can get something recorded for you guys beforehand. But as always, I wanna thank everybody for watching or listening all the way through for myself, for Jag, for Koff.
Alfredo Brown:We'll see you next time.
Jagger May:I'm not gonna lie. Tyler Perry's very offensive, but I will chuckle
Alfredo Brown:sometimes. Offensive.
Jagger May:Like, I will like, sometimes I'm even mad. I'm like, ugh. That was good.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I'm angry that I find this funny. I don't like it. How'd you get me? Oh, man.
Jagger May:I remember we we were driving to Saint Louis for every two years, the band would cause we made a lot of money, the High School Munchie Man. We would go to a trip. So we'd go to, like, 6 Flags in Saint Louis and shit. And on the bus, this black girl's, like, brought her Madea movies. And I'm not talking movies.
Jagger May:They were the DVD copy DVD. Copies of the theater stuff, the theater shit.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Oh, fucking pirated Tyler Perry movies? That's hilarious.
Jagger May:No. I didn't know that it started from theater. Like, it started from stage, dawg. Some straight Shakespeare shit. By Shakespeare.
Jagger May:He just dressed he just dressed up as a woman. That's it. That's something Shakespeare about it. And and we're watching them, I lost it. I was just like, I cannot watch anymore of this.
Jagger May:She was like, everybody knows you're white, Jagger. You can't appreciate this shit. She just, like, chewed me out in front of anyone. And everyone else is white, so no one could say anything.
Matthew Kopfhamer:They're all just sitting there.
Alfredo Brown:The white people are there.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Like, is
Alfredo Brown:this how it goes?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Is this how they fight? What do we do?
Jagger May:Low key, they're on my team.
Alfredo Brown:They fight just like us.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Does this mean we can say the n word?
Alfredo Brown:Nope. If Jagger's
Matthew Kopfhamer:going Too far.
Jagger May:And that's a good
Matthew Kopfhamer:sign. Ironheart. Ironheart. Is this a step back for black people? That's gonna be my opening.
Alfredo Brown:Let's find out next. Let's go up to our resident correspondent in the field. Jagger.
Jagger May:Who wants this dog? And
Alfredo Brown:thank you, Jagger.
Jagger May:Asian reporter for Shiitakanawa.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It got rain.
Alfredo Brown:Space weather.
Jagger May:Family god was pretty
Matthew Kopfhamer:sweaty. It was funny. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. Let's
Matthew Kopfhamer:Let's get this over with.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Let's rip off the
Matthew Kopfhamer:Band Aid.
