This is UnBinge, the podcast breaking down your favorite movies, shows, and characters in pop culture fandom, and, well, read the room. We're discussing our theories for Severance season two episode two, and, well, guys, he's loved Doris since he was five years old. It's Jagger May. And I got a fetid mop it here, Vignesh Doriswami. And, well, this guy commits lactation fraud.
Alfredo:Matt Koffhammer, all three of them joining me today, and I ate your shitty fucking cookies. I'm Alfredo Brown. And, today, we're gonna ask some of the biggest questions about season two, episode two of severance. Like, what was going on with that crazy ending? What will miss Cobell and Mark Scout be doing next?
Alfredo:Do we finally get some clarity on Helena versus Helly? The Audi's, in particular, Irving, seem to be unearthing some of Lumen's dirty secrets, and we got some more clues from the intro. Maybe some stuff like what's revolving, what's going on in the testing floor, and what the fuck is this all about. So let's get into that right now. Jagger, hit hit us with the spoiler warning.
Jagger:This is a podcast discussing everything about severance, and we're gonna spoil some stuff. And you know what? You're welcome because you should have been watching it anyway, and this is gonna just make you watch it. So hit that like and comment, and sorry.
Alfredo:And sorry. Alright, guys. Let's hop into our theories and discussion here. Episode two of severance. The ending.
Alfredo:Let's not bury the lead. The ending was was very intense. I was on the edge of my seat. What's going to happen? And you know when you watch a show and you're, like, just begging the characters to say the thing you want them to say, ask the questions you want them to ask, and for Mark Scout to put the pieces together and say, what do you know about Gemma?
Alfredo:Does this have anything to do with Gemma? And then to get that reaction from Cobell, I think it's gonna lead Mark down the right path. What's next for these characters, Cobell and Mark Jagger? What do you think?
Jagger:Personally, let's just start from what happened during that. I talked to you guys a little bit pre show. I knew that her, like, her she has, like, two options. Do something incredibly cold and bitchy or fucking lose it. That's the only thing we've ever seen.
Jagger:And then she hit the lose it button. I honestly think that she's just playing jazz and chess at the moment. She had no
Alfredo:more Defiant jazz, if you will.
Jagger:Defiant jazz. Yes. Because she's like, fuck you. I'm not gonna take your nothing role. And anybody here tap in, hit that like, tell us, hell yeah.
Jagger:If you've worked a soulless job, you know they give you this. Well, you're gonna be a consultant, which is corporate for we don't fucking care about you at all, essentially. And now she can watch Mark or do whatever she wants and maybe use Mark to work her way back into Lumen because let's think about her whole purpose. The one thing that we do know she loves is some care, baby. She loves some care.
Jagger:So she's gonna work her way in and usurp Milchik no matter what.
Alfredo:I think it's even on another level. I don't even think it's just that they don't care about it. I think that they don't trust her anymore. Mhmm. But they can't let her be out there in the open.
Alfredo:In the wild. To just kind of, like, reassign her somewhere to shut her the fuck up for a little bit. Cough. Sorry. I didn't interrupt.
Kopfhamer:No. No. I was gonna say the exact same thing because she is the most dangerous person to Lumen right now because she knows where all the skeletons are buried. So it's in their best interest to keep her not only happy, but, like, within their doors. They wanna keep an eye on her at the very least.
Kopfhamer:And so the fact that she is a wild card at this moment, like, they gotta be pissing their pants if if they're, you know, the Egan's because this is a loose cannon with a lot of information. And now you have Mark digging deeper. How you know, his sister brought up bringing, bringing information to his any. So now we could see that with Mark trying to explore how does he communicate with his other side and and unearth information together possibly. So, I mean, you got two wild cards, one within their own walls and then one without with Cobell on the loose.
Kopfhamer:So Lumen's gotta be shaking, and that's why we're seeing so much subterfuge when they're doing these fake, you know, videos last episode and and now Milchick giving everybody pineapples. So By the way,
Jagger:subterfuge. That's a good word. It's like I'm happy we're talking about severance and not like Star Wars because we can use fun words like that with this crowd.
Alfredo:By the way, I just gotta give it up. Props to the animation department over at Lumen for putting together a video in forty eight hours than, like, having them back in there or however because initially, they tell us it's forty eight hours that he gets, like, put this new team in there. Mhmm. I don't know how much longer it took to get the the rest of the team back, but it definitely wasn't no damn five months. What we I think we can we can all agree on that.
Alfredo:Vig, what are your thoughts here on what one, where Cobell could be going and, like, Mark? I was so happy that he and Devon did not spill the beans to Milchick while he was there. Yeah. I think they did
Vignesh:a really good job. I'm glad they didn't spill the beans. I think that sort of could've messed up everything. They kinda figured out anyway. Right?
Vignesh:They get the little henchman in the diner who's, like, listening in and mister Sherlock anyway. But Drummond. Drummond. Is how could Lumen be so stupid? I just feel like this Cobell thing is more than they're letting on.
Vignesh:Like, you really wanna tell me that Cobellvig is living right next to our boy and Lumen has no idea? It just doesn't make sense. Like, something
Alfredo:In subsidized Lumen housing? Yeah.
Jagger:Like, what
Alfredo:are we doing? Like, let's take a step back.
Vignesh:Who's there? Entire place. The entire what is this place? The license plates have a face of care, first off. Like, is this even a
Alfredo:It's like a college campus. It's like a college campus where, like, the streets aren't really real and the buildings are just dorms and classrooms.
Jagger:And they
Kopfhamer:they call those compounds. They're industrial compounds. Yeah.
Jagger:Yeah. Or Which or state or states. But we're not gonna we're not we're not gonna talk about, like, the that on there. Vig What? I think that you are kinda you're you're thinking too corporate, and they're doing illegal activities so they're thinking, like, kinda gangster on here.
Jagger:When you're doing bad shit around tech people, you want as little people to know as possible, and you want a little as little of that on visual cameras as possible. So, like, to me, like, that and that's another reason why. Like, Cobell, her being this wild card and and her being, I guess, dangerous outside of their ecosystem is so powerful because they've kept everything between mister Frolic Drummond and Cobell and Milchick.
Alfredo:I think there's some hubris. I think, like because, I mean because Cobell goes out of the way to say is that you fear me. And then Helena says, we don't fear anyone. Like, there there is a genuine Egan hubris that just lives and circulates through Lumen, and it's going to someone like Milchick who is now trying to manipulate every single aspect of these people's lives. The innies, the outies.
Alfredo:You notice how he changes, by the way, inside Lumen? Inside, he is, like, ruling with an iron fist. And then on the outside, he kinda has to take a step back and and sort of, like, from underneath and be almost like a customer service guy where he's manipulating them in very nice ways. And, you know, when when he said something to different yeah. Yeah.
Alfredo:In in very different ways. And I I wrote it down, man. But, like, there was when he said, I'd hate to reward your innies courage with nonexistence when he's talking to Mark and talking about how he's happy on the inside and that that solace will eventually make its way to him on the outside. It's just first of all, damn. By the way, episode MVP right there, Milchick.
Alfredo:Like, he crushed this whole thing.
Jagger:Catholic church couldn't do a better job, baby. Yeah. The guilt is real. It it was crazy, dog. Like, I literally told Amy.
Jagger:I was just like, like, for real, he's arguably better than Cobell because he's just not a complete piece of shit. Like, Selvig can either be a weird candle salesman slash doula or whatever, or she's just this crazy psychopath. Either way, she's weird. Milchick could actually be likable with the exception of that haircut. You notice Milchuck could never go around other black people with that haircut.
Jagger:I'm like, bro, that, like, you ain't got no fade. You ain't got none of that shit. Like, that that's how they'd get them for sure. I'd be like, this nigga is sus.
Kopfhamer:Like, give me It doesn't matter. That hair that haircut is utility for that magnificent helmet that he wears.
Vignesh:Oh, man. That is a magnificent helmet, but I gotta ask. Like, I've I've I've ridden on a lot of motorcycles. How is my man carrying
Alfredo:this little pineapple bag?
Jagger:Pineapple bag? Pineapple. That's
Alfredo:what I
Jagger:thought. That's
Alfredo:the biggest question in the show. Not not what's going on at Lumen is how are you strapping down pineapples, that many pineapples. Bicycles.
Jagger:Does he have seven?
Vignesh:I don't know.
Kopfhamer:I didn't see any. I didn't see any.
Jagger:Like, yeah.
Alfredo:There's How many trips back and forth is he making? Because it's like a full on gift basket.
Jagger:In the helmet's not that back that was I thought it was okay at best. It looked like, I don't know, like BioShock. Like, how they're kinda black for, like, tiny. So
Alfredo:I keep forgetting the name.
Jagger:Is it Rickon or Rick? Yes. Yeah.
Alfredo:Rickon. Rickon. Okay.
Jagger:Rickon. Way busheer than just Rick.
Alfredo:Oh, but, god, he's so good, man. Like, he's stewed to perfection. It's just the right amount of cringe where he's so much fun, and I absolutely love the way he just looked at it. It it was almost as if he had never seen something so cool in his life. Like, he had never seen a motorcycle helmet up close, and he's just like, that is magnificent.
Alfredo:He just he saw a man, and he was just, like, into it.
Jagger:My favorite other car though, especially that last scene, I knew those cookies were shitty, dog. A % knew those cookies were shitty. Because it's like, no person who is that cold can make a good cookie or even cares. No. You know?
Jagger:Like like, she's the one that yeah. A dessert for her is like a fucking grape. You could tell.
Alfredo:Like a mint. You know?
Jagger:A mint. Exactly.
Alfredo:Yes.
Jagger:As as like, what would she bit into it? I'm like, that's a that's a crisp or whatever a biscuit, whatever British people eat. That isn't a cookie.
Alfredo:Don't don't don't alienate our our UK audience right now, Jack.
Jagger:Okay. All five of you. I'm sorry. But, you know,
Alfredo:six Whatever. Alright. Vig, we got a brand a brand new intro for season two. We actually didn't get to see it in episode one. We see it here in episode two, and there are so many little Easter eggs.
Alfredo:And, honestly, if we tried to get to that through that in this episode, it's gonna be a three hour long episode. We're just talking about this. So I I wanna go over that. One of the things that I think stands out to most people, stood out to me was little baby Kier Egan popping up and, shaking off the snow, and it just, one, fucking creepy. Two, I think it's also just giving us the little breadcrumbs as to what is going on here and what we feel like has been going on with, with with I mean, maybe a little bit of the revolving or maybe what's been going on with Gemma.
Alfredo:They're trying to revive Keir Egan. I think that is could it be the red herring, or is that really what they are doing?
Vignesh:It's hard to say. I mean, that's what they're, like, really telegraphing, and that's okay if that's what it is. They're cloning sheep. But, you know, maybe Cloning sheep.
Alfredo:Goats. There's been there's been there's been so much talk about how they're not actually cloning. In all the interviews, all the actors keep saying it has nothing to do with cloning. It has nothing they're like, that would actually be so much dumber than what we're doing. Like, we're actually doing something cooler.
Alfredo:I'm like, well, fuck. You guys got me. I'm I don't know. Sorry, Vic. Go back to it.
Vignesh:Yeah. No. No. I just I never I never really bought in that thing to, like, this cloning idea. Yeah.
Vignesh:It just feels sort of cheap for what they're doing as a sort of science fiction, but also office attire. But what you know, just you you brought up the intro video. There's a lot of cool stuff going on. I don't really know, like, there's so much imagery and symbolism. They're all wearing, like, prison jumpsuits and orange, and that I think that's a little on the
Alfredo:nose, a little heavy. But first time around, I thought it was just a pajama. I thought he was just in a onesie. I didn't realize that it was a I've all I was scouring the Reddit boards, and they're like, yep. Orange prison jumpsuit to show, you know yeah.
Alfredo:Keep going.
Vignesh:No. Exactly. I mean, I so, again, you as you all know, I very committed to not looking at Reddit or anywhere else until I'm done with the show, because these guys are really good, and they figure things out. And it sometimes, like, sometimes messes things up for me a little bit. But there's a point that I wanna point out where there's, like, a reflection in the water.
Vignesh:Like, you see Mark walking, and below him, at one point, you see Helly. At one point, you see Gemma. And I don't know what any of it means to tell you the truth. I don't know what baby care is doing. I know that the writers of this show and the creators and show runners of the show know that idiots like me are gonna pay attention to every detail.
Vignesh:That's how they built such a captivating show that I don't hit skip when that intro shows up. Right? Like, it is just so compelling that you are I'm, like, grasping for every little hint they might give me. Like, the the same the license plate, for example, everywhere, it says, like, remedium hominem, like, a cure or a fix for all mankind, and we see it in season one. We see it again in the the license plate of, of Milchak's motorcycle, and they're like, you start to really wonder what are they trying to do?
Vignesh:How many of these things are red herrings or what is the greater plot? And I don't know the answer to any of these things, but the fact that we're having all these fantastic theories, I can't remember the last time there's been a show that has really captured all of our imagination like this. And I'm here for it. I love it.
Alfredo:Even more so
Jagger:than Game of Thrones. Because Game of Thrones is like, is he gonna die? Is he not? And now it's just like, are they cloning sheep? Are they trying to take over the world?
Jagger:Are they gonna turn off
Alfredo:Is there a baby in his head?
Jagger:Like Yeah.
Alfredo:What's happening?
Jagger:They're they're by the spotless mind, everybody. Eternal sunshine for the spotless mind, everybody, with the fucking severance or something. I don't know.
Vignesh:So the one question severance.
Alfredo:Do you think
Vignesh:these homies, who got fired got a severance package?
Kopfhamer:Oh. I'm
Jagger:not gonna have to tell all
Alfredo:of them. Oh.
Kopfhamer:That's what the pineapple is for, Vignesh. No. The one question
Vignesh:Bobbing for pineapples, giving them pineapples, kobelevic going
Kopfhamer:what do they do? Give you
Jagger:a pineapple?
Kopfhamer:The pineapples are clearly
Jagger:party if you
Kopfhamer:know what I'm talking about. Yo. Swingers are galore. Yeah, man.
Jagger:Yeah. I know.
Kopfhamer:So the one question I have leaving both, you know, this episode and the even the intro the new intro, what is cold harbor, and why is Mark so important to completing it? I know we saw last season that his team hit quota. Is it really just that he's that good at at sorting the numbers that they just they'll bring him back at a 20% increase? Like I
Alfredo:think there's gotta be a connection between him and Gemma, and Gemma has got to be the the the person or the body that they are able to use right now for whatever the MDR experiment is with Cold Harbor. And it's gotta do something with either emotions or neurons or something with the brain and memories. It it's gotta be something like that. Something where I don't know how, but Mark is the best one at it, and his team is good at it.
Jagger:And maybe again, I think severance is just, like, an experiment. That's all it is. I don't think the numbers actually matter as far as they're cleaning anything up. They are just I I mean, they have random words that'll, essentially super soldier you or, what's the word, a maturing candidate you. So I'm sure with the numbers floating around, they can keep you locked in into work.
Jagger:I feel like their cure for mankind is pure separation from work and home. Because when you go to work, all that's your world. You're locked in. That's all you care about. You're more an efficient person when you're there.
Jagger:You're not bringing that shit in. And then when you're outside of it, you're not bringing your work home. I'm not gonna be pissed off because, you know, Bert g with his creepy ass paintings left one of the copier, and I'm stressed out, and I'm gonna yell at my kids. Like, how much do you think humanity would be better if we really had, like, time to frolic at home? We don't really have that time, and notice how I dropped frolic there.
Jagger:We don't really have that time. But if we separate it to where we don't have that emotionally, it kinda feels like, you know, we're not so much, working every day.
Kopfhamer:It reminds me of The Shining. It reminds me of The Shining. All work makes Jack, you know, a dull boy.
Vignesh:A dull boy.
Kopfhamer:You need you you almost need
Alfredo:It's better than your Viola Davis. Much better.
Kopfhamer:But you but you need that, recreation along with work. Otherwise, you'll be driven insane. Right? So it's interesting how far we're gonna see these innies go to try to escape because eventually, you know, you're gonna work them into a state of, you know, almost insanity.
Jagger:That's why they got the conjugal visits and shit now. They're like, oh, he got a little taste of family. We'll let you look at him here, and then that's enough. And I think that's why you you have the stimulation of, like, okay. You gotta think about it.
Jagger:When when we were cavemen, the the most basic shit was entertaining. Now I can't even watch old movies because my brain has been fucked by TikTok. You know? So if you got your any, like, okay. You got a little finger trap.
Jagger:Even Cobell was entertained by that one time. I don't know. I mean, I think I get where their logic is coming from where if you how much playtime do they really need, and that's relative to what their environment is.
Kopfhamer:I I it also makes me wonder. Like, season one, when they were talking about, like, the massacre, the MDR massacre or whatever, I was like, oh, that's that didn't happen. That was just something they said to try to keep the department separate. But now I'm wondering if, like, this is version, like, 20 of severance, and, like, in version one, they literally worked them to insanity, and that's what made them massacre the other departments. So maybe this is just
Vignesh:a supports that.
Kopfhamer:You know? Yeah. Maybe this is just a long line of experiments that they've already done.
Vignesh:Yeah. They talk about their perpetuity wing, and they're like, oh, mine has, you know, robotic animatronic. Oh, yours just has brooms. Like, again, it might mean nothing at all, but just they do such a damn good job. Every scene is shot so well.
Vignesh:The visuals are really fantastic. But, also, it's, like, every scene has a payoff. Jagger says this. We all talk about this, but, like, good writing has good payoff. And, again, they've convinced me that I'll I mean, I'll buy whatever they're selling.
Vignesh:There's gonna be some great payoff. Definitely. Even, like, little scenes, like, we haven't talked as much about how this whole episode is just Audi stuff, like, barely anything with the innies at all until the very end. Right? Or when you watch the video of them, but all of Dylan's stuff, like Dylan a interviewing Dylan b
Alfredo:Yeah. At
Vignesh:the door company, that entire scene was just incredible. Like, follow kickball, like, you mean professionally or or even him being like, oh, I'd be a pocket door, you know, so I could just kinda
Alfredo:We got that was so good.
Jagger:He shows
Vignesh:us who Dylan g is. He shows us who
Jagger:he is. That felt so unfair.
Vignesh:Who he is as an innie.
Jagger:That felt so unfair when though.
Kopfhamer:Yeah. Oh god. But, like, when he tells him, he's like a pocket door because when I'm done, I can just hide away. And then he gets it's like that is severance. That is exactly what severance is.
Kopfhamer:It's like you're at work, you're useful, and when you're not, you get put away. So the fact that the boss was like, that's a great answer. And then the turn on him when he found out he was a severed employee, it's like, that was that felt like such a betrayal because it was like, yeah. Dylan's finally gonna get a win outside of Lumen, and he got snatched away so quickly. It was like, man.
Kopfhamer:Fuck that guy.
Jagger:Dylan's a very I'm meek everywhere else and then strong against my wife in in a cubicle.
Alfredo:Read the broom.
Kopfhamer:Stop being nice to me.
Jagger:No. But to go
Vignesh:back to what Alfredo said for a second, though, Alfredo. You were talking about, like, the the Mark, Gemma, everything. One thing I just want it along that line. Right? We know Mark is the most important.
Vignesh:They talk about cold harbor. If you didn't freeze frame cold harbor from season or episode one, it's sort of when you see Gemma pop up for, like, half a frame. You pause it. It says cold harbor. It has her vitals.
Vignesh:Like, I don't really know what that's all about. Does that is cold have anything to do with, like, cryogenics? And maybe, again, bringing back here just seems like a very easy answer for what they're trying to do, but it's just they say it all depends on him. Almost seems like the whole charade is just about him, because it has to be about Gemma. He gives a description when he's talking to his sister.
Vignesh:Right? At one point, he says, well, maybe if you saw Rickon's body all burned up, which makes me actually wonder is did Gemma actually ever die? Was it her body or was it just did not badly in the body version that looks
Alfredo:like stranger things. Her?
Kopfhamer:Yeah. Switch the body. I don't know. Bodies you can't identify.
Jagger:This is adult stranger things. Holy shit.
Vignesh:Yeah. Yeah. By by the way You have the upside down. They all work in the upside down.
Jagger:Holy shit.
Alfredo:A couple of things here. One, I think that Cobell is, honestly, probably so insulted by this new offer of whatever they want her doing, and she knows it's bullshit. I actually think she could be on her way to wherever Cold Harbor is and, like, to wherever that could be. I I don't know. I don't know, but she could be on her way somewhere to fuck up some shit for Lumen.
Alfredo:I think that she's had it, and I think that she is on her she's she's on her way to go mess something up. And I think we end up seeing
Jagger:She doesn't accept their contrition?
Alfredo:I mean, listen, Amy. We I apologize. See we later on see our we later on see our main characters walking around in heavy coats and hats. Listen. One, this is the first time we see all the Audis together.
Alfredo:It could be something fake, but this is the first time that they're all gonna be together in the outside world walking around in the cold. There's What
Vignesh:are you talking about? Or Was this, like, a trailer teaser?
Alfredo:The future. The trailer for the season.
Kopfhamer:Next episode.
Vignesh:Like, it's
Jagger:in there. Oh, I never
Vignesh:saw it. I never saw it. Okay. Okay.
Jagger:I never
Kopfhamer:saw it.
Jagger:Do that. Like, you all yeah.
Alfredo:Well, I mean, we talk about it. Like, we need to know these things. Yeah. But, like, yeah, these guys are together on the outside. Like, all four of them.
Alfredo:Outside. Like, all four of them, they show this in the severance, trailer for the season. They're walking around in the snow, and they're all in these heavy coats, hats. It looks like they're in fucking Siberia wherever they are. And, honestly, like, it would not surprise me if Cobell is on her way to somewhere to mess things up.
Alfredo:And I would not be surprised if our main characters, specifically Mark, end up trying to track down where wherever she went. That's that's where my head is at with this. Sorry if I spoiled the teaser trailer.
Vignesh:No. It's okay. It's not
Alfredo:a spoiler, but I
Vignesh:do wonder. You said all four of them, which makes me really wanna spend some time talking about this Helena versus Helly thing because I can't see why Helena would be out with the other three. And I think we'll get to episode MVPs later, but you're just I
Jagger:think
Alfredo:it was all four I don't remember. I don't remember. I know it's at least our three main guys.
Vignesh:Oh, yeah. Like, Helena's acting. Like, when she's acting as Helena or acting as Helly while she's Helena, which is what she might be doing when she goes down. But just that she pleased two different people so very well. Yeah.
Vignesh:You can see who Helena is and who Helly is and their demeanor. And and I don't know. There's this thing where she's, like, when this shot where you see her eye and the reflection of her like off her cornea is basically her seeing Helly have an emotional connection with Mark and it sounds like she's just never had anything like that her entire life Like, she actually jealous? About Helly? Like Yes.
Alfredo:Like, a % getting from this one. Hundred percent.
Kopfhamer:That's how I ran it.
Alfredo:I just
Vignesh:Yeah. Yeah. And I think that might be the turning point for her. Because what I think is she is such a loyalist. I think she might turn against her own company versus Cobell, I think, is such a start you know, strong believer and such a loyalist that I don't think she's gonna mess up the company.
Vignesh:I think she's gonna do anything she can to regain favor with them.
Alfredo:What if what if we Helen Helena is the one that went back in, but nobody else knows it? Not even Lumen.
Jagger:Not even Lumen. Like like Okay. You think they I mean, we talked about hubris. They'll think we'll just send Helly back in there. It'll be fine.
Jagger:And and and they and it's gonna be okay.
Alfredo:Keep an eye on her and everyone keep an eye on her or whatever it is. But, like We'll
Jagger:give you an Asian kid. They're good on it at everything. I've seen the Internet. You know? It's like
Alfredo:I mean, so there there's stuff that stands out about not just Helena and these innies. It's it's the way Milchik talks about them. It's the way Helena watches that video over and over and over where she gets this this provocative feeling almost. It's like this, it's not something where she was either sad or happy or anything. It just it felt like it just provoked emotion.
Alfredo:Like, she was overwhelmed. Like, that she actually in herself is a prisoner of Lumen, of the Egan family, that she's never actually been able to experience. I fell in love with someone, and I have kissed them. And I I think she's seeing that, and it's it's it's interesting because the way Milczyk talks about the innies, it's almost like they are the soul of these characters and that they, like, they need to reward their soul, and their soul needs to be fed with happiness and all these things. And that if our main characters stop working at Lumen, they're effectively killing their soul.
Alfredo:And in a way, I think Helena is seeing that from the outside looking in that, like, damn, this is me not having been crushed by the world, essentially, and not having been crushed by the Egan family and the weight of all this that is on my shoulders. So I I found it to be really, really interesting. They said so much without her actually saying anything. It was yeah. It was it was just a really cool scene.
Alfredo:And before that, this is what I really wanna jump into, is the scene with her father. And the phrase that he uses there, the fetid moppet, which I I think so many people have said that it basically yeah. It translates to stinky child or keep twisting that translation a little bit more spoiled brat.
Kopfhamer:Mhmm.
Alfredo:Stinky spoiled child brat. Like, it's it's it's, like, right there. And so it's almost like Helena really never has had any respect or love from her father. She's just a thing. Like, she is just a tool next in line to do whatever Kier's great work is.
Alfredo:And it it it just it started making me spin the wheels. Even that phrase is so old, so out of nowhere. Is there a piece of Kier in her father? Like, is that is that the revolving? Is there a piece of Kier in each of them?
Alfredo:Like, I have no idea, But I think that to me, the part that stood out of this whole thing was Helena and her dad and that scene, like, just it all just just sent so many questions into my head.
Jagger:See what's crazy is, like, that word is so old. I thought it was Latin or something random to be like a Manchurian candidate or or like some super soldier trigger where he's just like, are you sure that you're my my actual daughter
Alfredo:and not the, it did sound like almost triggered him. It almost looks like she triggered him back in when she said father, and he was like, oh.
Vignesh:He just turns around and walks away.
Alfredo:Yeah. And, like, and that was it. And he almost realized, like, oh, shit. What was I doing? Okay.
Alfredo:Never mind. And, like, just walked away. It was it was kind of the reverse effect, honestly.
Kopfhamer:Well, it's also interesting that you bring up, you know, the two scenes kinda back to back of her watching her innie and her innie's behavior and then her interaction with her father because we remember in season one when Helly puts in one of her many, requests to quit, she gets back the video from Helena basically saying, you are not a person. You are a thing, and you are just there to do my work for me. Shut up and go back to your desk. And so I think it's very profound that now she is experiencing no. My any is an actual living, breathing personification or person.
Kopfhamer:And so the fact that she treated her own self like her father did, I think, is starting to to show those cracks, like you said, Alfredo, where she may be the one to turn against the Egan family and the company at
Vignesh:large. Does. I mean, even the apology. Right? Like, she is basically subhuman.
Vignesh:Like, that is the most corporate apology, like, down to the while taking a non lumen medication, I drank some alcoholic.
Alfredo:Dude, the way she said that she had
Vignesh:no control over.
Alfredo:The way she said, I'm a person just like you, just like my any, and everyone's watching that, like, no the fuck. You are not. Yep. You're barely a human.
Jagger:So I I'm pretty sure you're gonna, like, do the zip. It's like, I'm not actually human. I'm a horse. Wizard person. I'm not actually a horse.
Jagger:I'm a broom. And then or, like, like, is she cake? Because, like, you wonder how these people are. Because that's how they talk.
Vignesh:It's Helena's not cake.
Jagger:You know, like, praise Kira. If I show any love or affection, someone will hit me.
Alfredo:This show has has set some groundwork for lore that just goes so far beyond than what we've seen in the halls of Lumen industry and what we've even seen in that building. So I'm excited to see where that goes. And, well, guys, if you've been watching or listening throughout this episode so far, I just wanna remind you guys, please subscribe to the YouTube channel. Or if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, subscribe there. Leave us a review there.
Alfredo:If you're watching, just give this video a like. Drop a comment down below as your thoughts on the episode. And, you can go back and check out our discussion from episode one. We did that last week. And coming up, we've got season three of Invincible coming up soon.
Alfredo:We're gonna be discussing each of those episodes. And we had a giveaway recently where, we gave away our x men signed comic by Chris Claremont. We, we're giving that one away to Tiago Lopez. I wanna thank you so much for supporting the show, Tiago. It means so much to us, man.
Alfredo:We're gonna get that one out to you. Gentlemen, there is an Audi character who I think is on the verge of uncovering some big stuff. I wanna know who he called. What is Irvin doing? Who did Irvin call?
Alfredo:What did he tell Bert? He's the only one that we actually had not seen what happened right when he got switched back. And I'm wondering at what point they're going to give us that. I don't even know if it's gonna be an episode three. I kinda hope they keep stringing us along a little bit.
Jagger:I don't. I need answers right away. There's so much sun pack. Don't hold that shit back. If you got them, feed them, dog.
Kopfhamer:It sounded like he was leaving a message when he was making that phone call. Like, it it sounded like in in the way it shot with Bert kinda, you know, creeping up on him and then watching him make the call, I wonder if he was calling Bert and and basically saying, like, hey. He found the note. Like, my and he found the note. And so I wonder if those two actually have some sort of past as outies that has kinda influenced their any relationship.
Kopfhamer:And even though Bert is married presumably to another man, there's something going on with those two, and and I'm here for Bert and Ernie Burton Irving. Sorry.
Alfredo:Freudian slip.
Jagger:And and to be fair, like, I'm a straight male. John Turturro is better looking than his than his husband. Like like, that would be an upgrade for sure. Yeah. If if I was down there and let's say, I'm Bert g, I'm a, like, holy shit.
Jagger:My, you know, my any pulled that, you know, and I got Tubby back here. Nice. And this trip
Alfredo:We're not fat shaming anyone.
Jagger:No. We're not. I'm just good, guys. No. Being you are gonna bring my shenanigans, Alfredo.
Alfredo:So I'll I'll I'll say this, man. Like, I actually think I do think that Irving notices the car there because you see him kinda do a turn and look. And and, I mean, we know he's he's ex military, and he's got some PTSD, which is why he even did this whole procedure to be severed in the first place. And so you can already tell he has a massive distrust of Milchik just the way he had the big like, he was more customer service than Milchik was when he opened the door. I forgot what he said he was watching, but, like, he just
Jagger:been here the whole time.
Alfredo:Yeah. Like, he was just very, like, eyes wide open, big fake smile, and he's like, okay. Well, yeah. Have a good night. And yeah.
Vignesh:That's what I hope they show us. Because the one thing we don't know is we don't know what happens to Irving from, like, the moment he's knocking at Bert's door to how he gets home.
Jagger:There has
Vignesh:to be something there. They're they have to show us that interaction at some point. But clearly, Burton Irving are, I think, among the two Audi's, the first to really be onto something, in our group. I mean, obviously, Mark's onto something different too, but, yeah, I I just I don't know, but But they seem to be I don't know. Is he talking to Rick Gabi?
Vignesh:That was sort of my first guess. I don't think they're introducing new characters. They gotta keep it tighter. So it's gotta be someone we've seen before.
Alfredo:So Bigger definitely going on Reddit, bro. You definitely going on Reddit. And I Bigger is Reddit. Yeah. You are Reddit.
Alfredo:You're you're all over there, man. Because these are all the same things that are on there, dude. Yeah.
Vignesh:It's Because there's only so much you can only so many things you can tell. What other character has there been to tell you the truth? Someone who's, like, not important enough, but kinda important featured in, like, a little bit of an episode. Rekabi is the only person that fits, and she's, like, pretty instrumental, I think, to, like, earlier versions of how Severance works. So I just don't know who else could he call without bringing in a new character, and that just feels sort of weird.
Vignesh:Unless he's calling Bert because they had an interaction about it, but then Bert's right there. So I don't know, man. That's what's so great about this. Right? Like, we don't know and yet like, what are we recording for, like, thirty something minutes and we have zero answers, and we just wanna keep talking about it?
Alfredo:Dude, it's just I I wonder how much Bert actually knows because I mean, he retired. We don't kinda have an idea of what that's like for people to go through their tenure of working there on the severed floor and then retiring. How does that happen? Why does that happen? You know, is it kind of like, oh, well, you know, he's always really behaved well.
Alfredo:That's it. That's another thing. Right? Like, was he forcibly retired?
Vignesh:Anything. Like, is this an old
Jagger:Is he honeypot?
Vignesh:I mean, they I don't know.
Jagger:They talk
Vignesh:about Wyoming.
Alfredo:Right? Don't you fucking dare?
Kopfhamer:Honey dick. Is
Alfredo:he honey dickin' him?
Jagger:Honey dick. He's not taking him, baby. No.
Alfredo:Oh my god. Wait. Oh, this show makes
Vignesh:you question every
Jagger:year. Like, the cars,
Alfredo:the Yes. I will cry so much, man. I just watched Wild Robot, and I was crying during that. I will cry so hard if Irving is getting honey dicked right now.
Jagger:Alfredo's hormones are are in disarray.
Alfredo:I am all over the place, guys. I am all over the place.
Jagger:Be careful. Yeah. Don't have a hot flash. Don't want you to sweat on camera.
Alfredo:Careful. I got the fan going. We're good.
Jagger:Good. Cool.
Vignesh:So I think one thing we talked about last episode that maybe we have some answers to. We keep asking why are they doing this? We kinda know Mark's answer. Maybe we've expanded on a little bit where he says, your innie is funny. Your innie is kind.
Vignesh:Whatever, like, Bilcek tells him. But Mark is looking for healing through his innie. I think they've convinced him that's how it works. Like, he gets better.
Alfredo:He'll be happy.
Vignesh:Every day without Gemma doesn't feel like a year because of that. Bert I'm sorry. Irving did it because something to separate that PTSD. He was probably sold on the idea that his PTSD would disappear with his NE or something like that. And I think we know that.
Vignesh:I think Dylan's got something medical. When he says, can I ask about health benefits? Whether it's he's got a a toddler kid, he's got a baby kid, they're They're talking about white.
Jagger:Has kids, and he didn't want to have kids. Like, it's
Alfredo:pretty straightforward. Supposed to be the most relatable character because he's just the plight of the middle class. He's like, I got three fucking kids. I got a wife, and I can't hold down a job. Now I have to go back to this place and beg for a job, but, I mean, he obviously can't get it.
Alfredo:But, like, he when he gets the job back, no matter how dangerous or what it might be, he's immediately, like, yes. Yes. And you get it.
Kopfhamer:You have to imagine you have to imagine the compensation for the severance job has to be pretty high to try to convince people to do it. So yeah. Especially
Alfredo:Our guest got a 20% bump, homeboy.
Jagger:And that's like So I'm saying brother's an is an Iraqi vet is, like, PTSD makes you hard to work with sometimes depending on how that shows up. So that that could just be the ideal environment for him to keep a paycheck and get health benefits because, again, when you're out of military, you're probably you probably need insurance. So
Kopfhamer:What
Alfredo:if Dylan's actually just kind of a fuck up on the outside?
Jagger:I think he is just kind of sounds like he is.
Alfredo:Like, he's he's, like, angry with his wife. He's making, like he's not too great in his interview and just a lot of short term jobs vague. Yeah. Yeah. I I think that might be it.
Alfredo:I think he's just supposed to be the every man who's, like, just a little bit of a fuck up, and he has nowhere else to turn to except for Lumen.
Jagger:To to quote Regavi saying any is infantilizing, it is, but it's kind of relevant. Because I like to think of it as a nature versus nurture type thing to where, yeah, you'll have experience and knowledge, but just interacting with other people for the most part, you're at your basic form with the exception of your frontal vortex or your frontal lobe being, like, developed on there. Meaning that Helly is probably, like, that's how I was as a little kid, and I was rambunctious, defiant, and the Cure culture stamped all that out of me. Dylan is probably just an asshole. He's just like, I bet my Audi has a house that's like this, blah blah blah.
Jagger:He he's a Reddit bro who, like, if you talk to him on the outside, he's awkward in interviews, weird as shit. But, like, on Reddit and to his wife, he's like a bully. And I'm not trying to say that, like, maybe Dylan g, like, statistically, one of these guys are probably just a shitty person, kind of. You know? Like, one of us are for sure.
Jagger:Four of us are. Odds are against us. Brace Keir.
Alfredo:Alright, guys. Let's, let's get into our ratings for the season so far after two episodes and our episode MVP here. Vague, let's start off with you.
Vignesh:Dan, still 10 out of 10. The writing, the cinematography, the just
Alfredo:every Is anyone not gonna give a 10? Can we just start there?
Jagger:Yeah. That's a 10.
Alfredo:Alright. Everyone's at tens?
Kopfhamer:Tens across the board.
Alfredo:Alright. Yeah. Ten's at Okay. So let's just do episode MVPs here. Go for it.
Vignesh:I already gave you all mine. I'll start. It's it's for me, it's Helena. Even though Dylan seems steal the show, and I love what he brings, Britt Lauer doing or lower.
Alfredo:Not sure. How do you
Vignesh:pronounce her name, guys? Anyway, her acting is Helena and Helly being two such different people and the way she does it all her apology video, my gosh, like, there are so many Emmy worthy performances in this show, but she is certainly one of them. I mean, I know we all were, like, Sofia Falcone and from the penguin, but, man, in a different way, this
Kopfhamer:is right up there.
Jagger:Playing two people.
Alfredo:Yeah. I mean,
Jagger:Jag? It's Milchik, man. That dude you talk about playing two people. What's interesting about Milchik is he becomes what the metaphor is about. Where at work, you're a different person, and on the outside, you're this.
Jagger:And he he he has to do that without severance. And it it it's so wonderful because the only time you see him crack is, like, he almost comes in his pants when he's firing Dylan, and it was painful watching him. But he's like, he gotta come back, Dylan. But you can just that's the only time you see Belichick almost crack is with Dylan. So I gotta give him the MVP.
Alfredo:Alright. Koff?
Kopfhamer:I'm gonna go with, Devin. You know, Marcus' sister. I think she's gonna be a pivotal character pushing him to explore what's going on and really help bridge the the gap between, you know, what he knows and what he doesn't about his his wife's death. So, you know, good for her for for, a, when Milczyk came over, she was quick to cover the picture of Jemma to keep his nose from digging that up. And then, b, like, she's not letting go of the fact that Marks Ennis said she's alive while holding a picture of his wife.
Kopfhamer:So, like, she knows what's up. And and for that, I've given her the MVP.
Vignesh:Even, like, just sorry. Alfred, I don't know. You're up next. But Go. Can we talk about how great a sibling dynamic they're showing here?
Vignesh:Like, one that is relatable and real and, like, siblings that clearly love each other, but that love also manifests as, like, anger that is just kinda relatable. I feel like I've heard so many people talk about how much they love their sibling, but they snap at them more than anyone else because they care. And it's just gosh. Is there anything this show could do better?
Alfredo:Yep. I literally felt
Jagger:like I was seeing my sister. Oh, yeah. Alfredo's an only child. So Yeah. You know, if you get it, never, I guess.
Alfredo:Get it.
Jagger:Never, I guess.
Alfredo:Okay. So my episode of BP for this one, I'm gonna have to agree with Jagger. It's Milchick on this, and it's because it's it's exactly what you said, Jagger. He's having to play two different people while being unsevered. He and it's and it it is it's such a a duality of man almost, and it's so funny to to see it play out because he was legit.
Alfredo:You could see the actual emotions, and you rarely ever see emotions on Milchick's face, but you can actually see emotions when he had to go and do the firings, especially with Dylan g where he was just, like, like, just loving it. And he was just kinda pissed as he was doing it, where he was like, you were involved in a violent altercation. And he just, like, that anger was just seething on his face. And then it was even worse when he was actually, like, alright. You know, we gotta bring you back.
Alfredo:Here's a fucking pineapple. Yeah. So yeah. I mean, I've I've gotta give it to Milchick. And, there was something that I really loved when he went back to go talk to Mark Scout, and he's there at his house.
Alfredo:You see Mark's fish that he finally fed for, like, the first fucking time, and I don't know how many seasons, so thank God. But he's got these two beta fish, one red, one blue. It felt very much like Matrix, like, pick the red pill or the blue pill type thing. But if you notice right down the middle of the fish tank, there's a divider because you can't have these two fish swimming in the same tank with each other or else they will attack each other and one dies. And it's just it's the perfect imagery, the perfect metaphor for the innies and outies that essentially, if they find out what's going on at Lumen and they remove that barrier, that barrier of mystery, it definitely means that any mark dies.
Alfredo:That's what it is. And and we're kind of forgetting that in all of this of, like, yeah, man. We hope Lumen gets what they deserve. We hope these characters get their happy ending or whatever it might be. But at the end of the day, it's what Irving pointed out in season one for Bert is that why are you guys applauding this?
Alfredo:Like, there's not going to be a happy ending for for for this show, guys. Like, I'm just gonna say that right here. Episode two of season two. There is no matter what happens, our innies are dying. And it it's such an interesting way to look at it.
Alfredo:I'm way off course from letting you guys know that Milchik is my MVP, but, that was, like, just the last thing I absolutely had to say. Any thoughts on that, guys?
Jagger:I mean, it's I feel like they're they're almost at that Stanley Kubrick level, especially when you think of someone who's been around a long time like Ben Stiller who's involved in this, where nothing is coincidental. Everything is there probably on purpose. So I yeah, man. Like like, who has two betas? It's like weird like, it has to be on purpose.
Jagger:You know?
Alfredo:Has I know I it probably is one of those things that, like, made him feel better is that he gets to see the two of them, and it's, like, reminiscent of himself. I feel like people try to see themselves and their pets. Cough, you you look just like your dog. You know what I'm talking about. Or maybe your dog looks like you.
Alfredo:I don't I don't know. Either way.
Jagger:But, anyways It's
Kopfhamer:called the it's called the Bowser. When the Yes.
Jagger:When the
Kopfhamer:pet looks
Alfredo:like a dog. Man. Anyway, so, guys, we finished it. Episode two of season two of Severance. This was fun to have this discussion.
Alfredo:If you watch this episode, but for some reason have not seen the other one, go back and check out our episode one discussion that we had. We will be back again next Monday with our episode three discussion. And like I mentioned, coming up soon, we've got invincible season three debuting. We've got so many other cool things. Well, I mean for this this was great.
Alfredo:This was great. For myself, for Vig, for Koff, for Jagger. We'll see you guys next time. Thanks for watching. Adios.
