This is Unbinged, the podcast breaking down your favorite characters, movies, and shows in pop culture fandom. Today, we're discussing our theories for Severance season two episode three. We're gonna be going over big questions. Mark has now decided to reintegrate what kind of effects should we expect going forward. Mammalian nurturables, guys.
Alfredo:There's goats. There's poop. No pouches. Sorry. But we're gonna talk about what's going on there.
Alfredo:Lumen's, like, going around manipulating non Lumen employees. Their reach is getting farther and farther. It's getting creepier and creepier. We've got the export hallway, the board, miss Cobell, Milchick, Natalie, creepy blackface paintings, more evidence about Helena. There's so much to talk about on this all new episode of Unbinged starting now.
Kopfhamer:This is your one and only spoiler warning. We put it at the front so you can't get mad at us when you keep watching the video. If you haven't seen episode three of severance or really any of season two yet, stop. Like, subscribe, go watch the episode, catch up on the season, then come back to us. But until then, don't get mad if we spoil anything for you.
Alfredo:Alright, guys. So Mark has decided to reintegrate. We get the the the crazy scene at the end where he's trying to burn this message into his retinas. And I'm saying, okay. That's why he's been timing everything out to see how long it'll last.
Alfredo:And out of nowhere, Regavi just kinda pops up like, hi. And and he's just terrified. And we have now this whole practice of reiteration where she says that she has been getting better and better at it. She reveals that last time she saw Gemma, she was alive. He agrees to go along with it.
Alfredo:So what kind of effects could we be seeing going forward here, Jagger?
Jagger:I mean, really, we're just seeing Mark act with emotions. So I kinda wonder what the fallout of him jumping head first into this reintegration. Just going off the word of Ragabe after seeing Homie get sick and die, essentially. And, of course, she said, well, he left too early and didn't listen. And, apparently, other people have reintegrated.
Jagger:I just wonder how is Eddie's gonna affect him. And the big thing here is he's in love with two women. He's like I mean, his Audi is desperately in love with this boy, obviously. You know, they've been married for so long. Clearly, he's willing to do anything for.
Jagger:He said he doesn't even know who the hell Gemma is. You know? Like, it's just the the lady who tells me I'm awesome and makes me feel good about myself. But, really, I got Helly over here. She's my number one.
Jagger:How does that work? That's my big question.
Alfredo:It's it's gonna be crazy because at some point, we're gonna have potentially Audi Mark talking to Audi Helena inside Lumen, each pretending to be any Mark in any heli. And, like, what what the fuck, man? Like, this is it's just it's gonna get wild, And I think them doing this whole reintegration scene this early in the season is a masterclass on just creating tension throughout the season. Because I think it's all starting to wear off on us, the tension of is this Helena or Helly? And we're kind of looking for the next thing, and I'm loving this about severance is that they don't keep us on any one mystery for too long.
Alfredo:Even though they don't give us a lot of answers, they just we're like cats, and they're just dangling the toys in front of us. And they're like, oh, here's another toy. And then here's another and they just keep us going, going, going. Cough, what are what are your thoughts on this with with Regavi, the reintegration, where we're going with this?
Kopfhamer:Well, like, my first question when she's like, I've gotten better at this. It's like, okay. Who is she practice on between me and Mark?
Alfredo:I have a theory.
Kopfhamer:Is it is it Helena? Like, has she reintegrated Helena?
Alfredo:And,
Kopfhamer:that's part of her day to day work at Lumen. But, really, it looks like the whole scene, I'm like, Mark, buddy, she is lying straight to your face. Like, when she hit the machine to get to start working, I was like, we're in for a rough time. And and, actually, there's a theory that I read somewhere, online about how reintegration is so dangerous because there are essentially this, brainwave interference theory where it's like you need a positive interference for them to work together. But, like, with Petey, what we saw when he basically brain hemorrhaged and died was you had that negative destructive interference where the two sides couldn't come together and they essentially killed him.
Kopfhamer:So are we gonna see Mark start to die because he can't come together, so to speak, with his innie and outie together, or is he gonna be able to successfully overcome that? And I just I don't think Regavi is being straight with him. I still don't know what her endgame is. So it's hard to know where this is gonna go without knowing what her true intentions are.
Alfredo:So it's interesting. I I think there's two things here. One, Koff, I actually think you might be right on this that she's been lying to him this whole time. I think the other thing that we could think of here is we talked about this earlier when Irving was on the phone when he went to that phone booth, and we're like, oh, who could he be calling? What if he was calling Bragabi?
Alfredo:What if she has been testing this on him? What if he's been a guy that has had a deep mistrust of Lumen this entire time? Remember, he's ex military. He doesn't trust anybody. Even with his PTSD, what if he became the perfect person for him to for her to continue to test on Because his brain might be functioning a little different.
Alfredo:So I I open up that theory, but I think what you're saying here with her not really having made any progress, probably a little more likely. And I think she's just she's going for it because because maybe with Mark s, the whole thing is that or Mark Scout, the Audi, there's probably a little bit more of the emotional desire to want to, you know, kind of make this reintegration happen. Maybe it's something where it's like, the like like, with patience, the will to live sort of works wonders. Maybe it's a similar thing where the will to reintegrate might actually work wonders here for Mark. I don't know.
Alfredo:Maybe I'm I'm going too far off the deep end there.
Kopfhamer:No. I like that point because you're right. If if it is truly, like, you have to truly want this to work, otherwise, you'll continue to fight yourself to the point of death. Like, I think that's
Alfredo:very true. It's literally mental. Like, you have to be willing to accept it and allow it to happen.
Jagger:And to me, it's the whole can the Audi accept the NE? I think it's the big thing here because I'm sure all the NEs experience sadness. You gotta think about Irving right now. Is Irving experiencing heartache, that's the saddest as any has ever been. Like, that is the the lowest of the low, and he's ready to essentially kill himself we see in, like, the first episode there.
Jagger:So, really, if Mark being the depressed outie that he is, Mark Scout, can he accept that, hey. I'm this happy dude who, like, makes jokes with PD, and I don't think about my wife dying. I'm Mac on the hot redhead chick. Can he be willing to be happy, or is this any just gonna kill himself? Because he's like, god.
Jagger:You're so fucking depressing, and I just wanna be. You know?
Alfredo:I'm I'm man, this is gonna be fun. This is gonna be fun to keep theorizing on and and thinking about because I still kind of look at the hole that we have from earlier in the season where Bert is watching Irving, and we still have not seen what happened to Irving when he was on the outside. And if anything, he's kind of the guy that even though he's sort of the I don't even wanna come the b or c story here. Like, it's just it kinda he got maybe, like, five or ten minutes of real screen time in this episode, but I think his storyline might end up being the most important out of all this because I think it's gonna tie in Mark s and Lumen and Cobell and everything that's been going on there. I I think there's more to this, man.
Alfredo:Like, we just we still haven't seen that stuff, and I think it's going to pop up at the exact right time. I wonder if we get that in episode four, because right now, all the people who got the advanced screening of the season have said that episode four is the absolute banger of the season. And we we got this cool setup here with Mark s doing the reintegration. So I'm I'm curious to see if maybe we get that back story of how Regavi has actually gotten better at this.
Jagger:Is it is it time to talk about the export hallway? Because, like, the the whole Burt thing, the the the big detail that I heard from that is, like, yeah. Sometimes, like, Bert would get to go out. Meaning that the theory that Bert could be watching someone on the outside is still alive or or the Regavi thing that you had there. Like, maybe he's been reintegrated.
Jagger:There's a lot there. And I I feel like, Bert is like this queen piece chess piece out there, him and Cobell. That if one of these two things happen, it's it's a huge, nugget of information that we're gonna have here. Because, to me, maybe Bert g maybe, maybe our boy was right. Maybe Bert g's a fuck.
Jagger:You know? Exactly. He's a fuck. Yeah. Dylan g's right.
Jagger:He's like, I see that guy. That guy's a fuck.
Kopfhamer:What I
Alfredo:Dude, Dylan sorry. Dylan remains awesome with all of his little quotes, man. You a dick? You dumb?
Vignesh:You a dick?
Alfredo:Oh, man. I'm a fuck up. It's just just perfect. The way he talks to miss Wong, it's awesome.
Jagger:We live on a cattle farm? Oh, fantastic.
Kopfhamer:But what what was interesting was when she said that and she's like, we used to be able to go out and bring the deliveries out. Now a guy comes. I'm wondering, is that mister Drummond, mister, you know, frolic tattooed on his hand? Is that who comes and now takes the deliveries, or is it this, you know, giant fucking bodyguard driver of Helena that we see?
Alfredo:Now when we say deliveries, what what is this? What are what are these I'm guessing paintings. Truly.
Kopfhamer:Probably so so, you know, last season, Dylan stole that one little placard thing, so it's probably that stuff. Like, the paintings, the placards that they're making, different, you know, audio or audio
Alfredo:feels too simple. It feels like there's always more. Like, there's always more than meets the eye with what's going on in Lumen. I mean, it's now this whole export hallway is, I guess, the elevator to the testing floor. Is that has it always actually been that?
Alfredo:Has it been repurposed the way they repurposed the security room and the wellness room and all that? There this is it's it's it's interesting, man. It's leaving a lot of questions.
Jagger:And it goes down. Because I Yeah. And I I know this is also random. I'm not throwing in here. I just have a lot of questions on how the building layout works and how deep it is.
Alfredo:It's just Harry Potter elevators going left and right and shit.
Jagger:If you notice the hallways
Kopfhamer:the hallways don't make sense. When they're walking around, they're basically walking like an impossible square with with walls that shouldn't be there. It's it's very disconcerting.
Jagger:And then Kobalczyk and Kobalczyk's office, there is a massive window in there, and it's down on the Severance Floor. Like, I just don't Oh. Like, that that's one thing that I've I've written down. Like like, a lot of my notes that I wrote for you guys are just like, what the fuck is this details that are going on?
Alfredo:That's what we should just title this episode. Seventh season two, episode three. What the fuck?
Vignesh:What the fuck? Like, this is.
Alfredo:Did you have have you noticed, by the way, something that, like, I just I always just kinda let it be is the way that the lights track with the people walking. Mhmm. What if that's not actually just an effect? Like, they're probably not saving on their light bill given, like, everything that they do there. What if that is actually just them tracking where people are walking?
Jagger:Is that they were doing that in in season one, or is this new? They have to know, man, because they knew where they were walking around. They heard their whole conversation. That's like I have to remember that they're all basically children with their frontal low lobe developed, essentially. So, yeah, they can make rational decisions, but they're still very stupid.
Jagger:Like, Mark not hiding his handwriting. Mark's like, hey. Let's make a plan to find, to to find the wellness lady. And and they they won't know because they say I could do what I want. I'm like, bro, they recorded you.
Jagger:Are you a fucking idiot? Then they're like, yeah. He is kind of.
Vignesh:You know? I don't know.
Kopfhamer:I mean, he's like, Mark, I I noticed a hint of deception in that when they said they were listening to us. It's like, hey, buddy. Of course, they were.
Jagger:Mark's name is quite literal. I don't feel like anything's on a Oh, who's the
Vignesh:Mark? Left
Jagger:out for chance. Like like, this guy's a Mark ass bitch, and we're gonna use him to scout on the inside.
Alfredo:So I I wonder this. If Irving may have already been reintegrated, because I know I'm just kinda running with that theory. And now Mark actually is currently being rent scraped. What if Irving's distrust of Helena is because he actually knows that she is Helena Egan. Helena.
Alfredo:Right? And and he doesn't believe that Helly ever came back. They would they would be a reason for that. Right? Like, maybe it could just be, like, an innate distrust that he has, that his and he already has, but he seems to be the one that is most suspicious.
Alfredo:And at some point, I feel like Mark Scout, who is now gonna be reintegrated, he might find all this out. And how how does everyone react? Do they just kinda keep playing the chessboard of not revealing anything? This is gonna be cool.
Jagger:And the room question is,
Vignesh:like go
Jagger:ahead, Kopp.
Kopfhamer:I was just gonna say, I think Irving is picking up on the small subtlety subtleties of Helly's performance because he's the least distracted of the three. Like, Mark is super distracted by, you know, miss Casey. And then you got Dylan g who's distracted by his new found family. So Irving's the only one that can seemingly, catch the little details of the difference between Hallie and Helena's performance.
Jagger:Like, what? He's clearly the smartest one. Like, clear Yeah. Because, like, you kinda brought this up, and this could be that he knew something and he was giving himself alibis, like, the first episode when or second one when we see Milchik making the rounds where he like, that paranoia and the questions that he asked even as any is on that right away. I like, to me, if Irving if you treat them like the wizard of Oz, if Irving had courage, he'd be a a force.
Jagger:Like, just just a force. If he wasn't just a complete asshat or or I don't wanna say asshat, a complete candy ass about doing anything, he would be a force. Because like I said, right away, I felt like he knew Helly was up to something. He's like, that ain't right. You know?
Jagger:So I don't know.
Alfredo:Man, so, I mean, the it seems like the evidence is really piling up that this is Helena and not Helly. Koff, I know that you have some theories on this as well because there are some some subtle things that you've noticed, but it seems kind of more and more, like, she's not really trying to hide it all that much, or or she wouldn't even know how to hide what Helly is like. I mean, even when we get to the the goat room, normal Helly is going in head first into that little poop chute right through there and just climbing right through before Mark even does. Instead, she seems to be very apprehensive about everything and trying to keep the division and stop the discourse, and, it it just doesn't seem right.
Jagger:Oh, yeah. Smart on the poop shoot. I didn't even notice that because for real, Heli is always just like, I'm gonna act. Like, she's like a Yep. The the little one from Game of Thrones.
Jagger:You know? Like, just, like, small but mighty in here. And then here yeah. And now she's like, I don't know. That's that's a good lead.
Jagger:Sam. Yeah.
Kopfhamer:She went from Ari to Sam literally overnight. So, yeah, there's a couple of things I noticed. Yep. There's a couple of things I noticed this episode especially that really made me think, okay. This is Helena pretending to be Helly because there's such a distinct shift in her personality.
Kopfhamer:So the first thing is, like you said, her her timidness. When they get to the goat room, she's the one that's, like, hesitant. She's the one, like, maybe we shouldn't do this. And it's like, no. Season one, Ally, would have been, like you said, first one in.
Kopfhamer:She would have attacked Brienne of Tarth who was, you know, holding the cheers. But also her interactions with Irving, I think, are really interesting. Because when she's trying to comfort him, she's like, we have you, which I think is a very specific choice of words. And I think it's Helena being a little smug and a little smirk being like, Lumen's got you, buddy. Don't worry.
Alfredo:They're they're doing that a lot, especially with Lumen is listening. We got you. Like, there is there's yes. Yes. I think a lot of it is very intentional.
Kopfhamer:Those those little subtle touches and and the way she, like, touches him in, like, this moment of tenderness, if you will, it's like that felt very awkward, very, very forced. Like, this is someone who doesn't normally interact with people on, like, a same level. They're used to being the boss or being you'd I tell you what to do and you do it. And this is them trying to be like, how do I connect with somebody on a personal level that they don't normally have? And then, when she's in the hallway with Mark, that was weird as hell, the way she was, like, trying to bait him into kissing her again.
Kopfhamer:And, again, you could
Jagger:I wanna feel something. Just
Kopfhamer:right. You could you could read this as Helly and Mark are like children. They just don't know how to actually flirt and be, you know, adults about their emotions, or this is Helena being a a corporate robot who doesn't know how to connect with another person is trying to
Vignesh:all ago with all this.
Alfredo:No no way no way that you've got Helly who comes running out of the elevator initiating a kiss with Mark. And then now through everything that they're going through and how the stakes have been risen, she's kinda like, I don't know if I wanna kiss you. It's weird for me to touch you. Like, robot does not know how to emote. Like, she no, man.
Alfredo:Like, this this is not her. This is not Helly. It's Hellena a %.
Jagger:And let's take this a step further. And I'm gonna bring in a theory that I think goes along a little bit with what you're saying. I think we're all on board that it's definitely Helena down there. No Helly. But, how they track people.
Jagger:And the one thing I can't get behind as, like, a tech bro is, everything is ancient from the TVs. I was like, look look, they got, like, four by five aspect ratio. I'm just losing my mind the whole time. I think it's because it is old tech that is unhackable for the most part, or it's not easily hackable. And then two, what if they they have so much security in there for the fact where they'll wipe your brain.
Jagger:What if they provide you a company car? They already provide your house. So they got these old low tech cars and all that stuff where they can track you in there. And and they're I I mean, that's how we're gonna be found them. You wondering how we're gonna be got there, not under understood that he's around some weird ass shed.
Jagger:One, Mark's probably easy to follow because he's not really down to do crime shit, not really experienced. But two, they I mean, they have to be tracking them somehow, some way.
Alfredo:It's interesting. The the aesthetic is very much like the TVA in Yeah. In Loki where it's kinda like quasi futuristic, but really in the past, like, sort of what we might get with the Fantastic Four movie coming out. But it's interesting because I wonder too is how much of it is when you give people this lo fi tech that can't do anything. One, are you really disconnecting them truly from the outside world with it, which I mean goes along with what you're saying about, like, it can't be hacked.
Alfredo:Mhmm. But then two, I think it's even easier to control these people because their subsidized housing is so much worse than normal housing, and their subsidized cars are so much worse than normal cars, and their subsidized tech and their watches and everything. It's not what the normal world experiences, and it becomes that much easier to control the Audis and the Innis because you know what all of their technological limitations are, and and they're they're they're pretty staunch.
Jagger:Yeah. I can I can hack my Fire Stick to get live TV, like, pay per view stuff right now? So, you know, but you're having an old square IBM computer. Like, what can I get that to do? Not even play snake anymore.
Alfredo:You can play feed the eggs to the to the egg baby.
Jagger:Yeah. Feed the egg baby, or you could look for scary numbers.
Alfredo:Alright. We're we're gonna get into, some mammalian nurturables talk. But, first, I just wanna remind everybody, we got a couple different ways you can enjoy this show. Unbinged. First is right here on YouTube.
Alfredo:So if you're watching this video, take a second just to give us a like. Comment down below some of your theories, your thoughts. Maybe you agree or disagree with something we've already said, something we haven't said in the show just yet. And, please subscribe because coming up, we are not only gonna continue this talk on severance with every episode that comes out, but we have the premiere of Invincible season three coming up this next week where we're gonna keep discussing each episode there. And then Daredevil Born Again when that releases very soon, we're gonna be talking about each episode after that and discussing that.
Alfredo:If you're listening on Apple or Spotify, take a moment just to give this a five star review. Leave us some notes. What you like about the show? Maybe what you like to see us do in the future? Alright, gents.
Alfredo:The mammalian nurturables, and I just really have fun saying it. So I keep saying it over and over and over. I think this added another layer to all of the lore of Lumen and that building and how they keep all the departments so separated. And even though I I this wasn't my favorite part of the season or the episode, it felt, like, really just kinda shoved in there. And I felt like it was maybe supposed to be a a vehicle of telling the story more of of Helena and how weird she is and how weird Lumen is in general, and we'll probably get the payoff later.
Alfredo:But the thing that stood out to me was not even the no pouches thing that they talk about at the end. It was how when they first get into that room, I can't remember her name right now, but, Brienne of Tarth, our our actress Wendell. Gwendolyn Christie. Yeah. When she asks, are you here to kill us?
Alfredo:It's a reminder that that is something that still happens, the interdepartmental wars and what these people still believe. Like, this is almost like a feral group of people that, like, live out in this kind of faux wilderness. Not really wilderness, but, like, just raising and living with goats. You got one guy who absolutely looks like he was in the capital on January 6. Like, there's I I think a lot of it is intentional.
Alfredo:But this is it's it's a weird looking bunch. I I don't know what your guys' thoughts are on this.
Jagger:Black Philip is who I thought when I saw that dude. Yes. Just like this one. Echo. It's a v.
Jagger:Yeah. I was like, that that's what I called him in my notes. I just wrote down Black Philip, like, what the fuck is going on there? You know, I wonder this is why I lean so much in it to it being a social experiment because how could a company just, like, let that go? You know, it's like or does it just serve their purpose of control so much that these people literally fear for their lives.
Jagger:Like, there's gonna be a whole war going on here. Like, are you here to kill us? Like, what company would allow that? You know? It's still to me, it keeps lending itself
Alfredo:more and more to that cult mindset, that cult aspect, and this is, like it's continuing more along the lines, not even of the of, like, the cloning where I think people were going and and us, we were going at one point. I'm I think I'm so far off on that. It's more about probably reviving Kier in some form or fashion in mentally or physically. But to me, it seems like the big project here with Lumen is actual literal mind control in one way or another. Maybe not in your classic Saturday morning cartoon evil villain way, but there seems to be some sort of a mind control through cult like behavior here.
Jagger:And what if this So I wonder we get everyone to be severed and everyone becomes a Lumen employee, and then they hit the switch and all of a sudden, your brainwash innie is now your Audi. Has anyone ever thought about that? That, like, essentially, they could they could turn off your Audi and be like, okay. Bloop. Yeah.
Jagger:You're this. You're you're you're no longer Mark Scout. You're Marnette, Mark s. You're this guy who thinks he has a a fucking kangaroo pouch, and he's there to to kill a bunch of weird painters. Or you're a goat lady.
Jagger:Your name's Black Philip all of a sudden out there. You know? So the the to me, that's that's a strong one.
Kopfhamer:That actually leans into a theory that I have for the show. So we gotta backtrack a little bit outside the goat room first for it to make sense. But, essentially, characters like Cobell and Milchick and maybe Drummond, are and maybe even Natalie, Maybe those permanently any severed personalities where they, at one point, were a severed employee that had an in and outie, but they're any proved through different tests or whatnot that they are truly a Lumen Kier, like, fanatic. And because of that, they earned the right to be permanently inied or severed so their inied was in control a % of the time. And so this goat raising part of it could be kinda like how we see in the Kingsman where it's like they gotta raise a puppy, and then the final test, they gotta kill the puppy.
Kopfhamer:Well, maybe it's the same thing with these goats where they gotta raise these goats and then the final test is they have to kill the representation of one of the tempers. Right? Like, we saw that with the waffle party that they had the four tempers personified. One of them had a goat head. So could this be part of, like, some weird cult like test where it's like you have to prove that just like here, you can overcome these tempers, and part of it is, you know, sacrificing a goat or something.
Jagger:You gotta overcome fucking a goat, like, in there. It's like, we got you waffles. We got you your your erotic waffles. Try not to fuck the goat lady. Like, it's like, come on.
Alfredo:Try not to.
Vignesh:Try not to.
Jagger:Just What was let fear guide your hand.
Vignesh:Yeah.
Jagger:I don't know. Maybe I would. I I don't know how good those waffles are because, like, the waffles may get me before it's like a a goat lady would. I like, I guess my big
Kopfhamer:But that's not my big
Alfredo:You know, those waffles were not good. No. They don't. Those waffles were not
Jagger:I'd rather had an echo. One my pushback on your theory is that, again, the creator has said that they're raised there, and we see that with miss Wong. That I think these people that are are it like, the, the Natalie's, the Milchicks, the Cobells, They were raised in, like, Utah kinda Mormon style or whatever, and they train you at whatever summit they have, and then they put you in these facilities, and then you go out and harvest because that's what the sheep are about. They they they're herding. They're shepherds going out there.
Jagger:Because that's what these weird cults and religions are. It's like, shepherd these sheeps in so we can get them to drink our Kool Aid. That and and to me, I feel pretty good that that Milchick was raised in here, and he's never like, him seeing another brother on a painting, Black History Month, the Lumen. I couldn't tell if he was horrified or about to come in his pants. Maybe both.
Jagger:He goes horrified?
Kopfhamer:He I he because later, he puts him away. He, like, tucks him away in a corner.
Jagger:That's what I'm saying.
Kopfhamer:Out of mind. So I think he was horrified, and that's the first indication we have that Milchick is cracking and that the lumen hold over him. He's starting to be like, fuck this place.
Jagger:Like, first of all, goddamn
Kopfhamer:because because first, it was like the goddamn computer kept saying Cobel's name, and now Mark left his goddamn balloons in the hallway. And now you're gonna give me this blackface bullshit? Like, he is tired of it.
Jagger:And now Natalie, him him and Natalie had that get out moment. I don't know what was like like like, was Natalie about to cry? Like, I had one too. And you could tell that they're doing the whole, like, they're always listening, talk, and shit like that. That that is one scene where probably today I'm gonna rewatch again.
Jagger:Because, like, as a as a black man on that one, I was trying to because, like, I obviously was horrified. I'm like, yeah. That is that is something corporate would do. That that's what corporate corporations literally do on Black History Month. I'm like, look.
Jagger:Look at this imaginary world where you could be somebody. You know?
Alfredo:So I thought I thought it was gonna be even worse. I thought it was gonna be here in place of various civil rights leaders. I thought it was gonna be, like, here in place of Martin
Kopfhamer:Luther King Junior.
Alfredo:Like, I thought they were gonna I thought they were gonna take it a step further even I don't know what would be worse in that case, but, like, dude, this is pretty fucking bad. This is it's
Jagger:really bad.
Kopfhamer:So when Congress, like, all wore, like, Kento's stoles and, like, knelt on the the floor in, like, solidation after, I think, quit George Floyd. Like, that's what it made me remind me of. I was like, this is just performative and, like, this this is even even though I'm not black, I I was like, this is gross.
Alfredo:Wait. You're not?
Kopfhamer:I know. It's surprising.
Vignesh:A fuck?
Kopfhamer:But it was very it just felt so icky that, like, a company would think that this this is something that people would want. Be like, what are we doing?
Jagger:See, that's it's so weird that you guys had that because I thought he loved it. And he and I got the impression that he was putting it away because it was like a precious trophy that he didn't wanna share any closeness to. But then the look with Natalie was different where he's just like, congratulation. Like like, to me, I got two different vibes and I'm not sure or ready to lean each way. I know what I feel, but I'm a regular ass person.
Jagger:I don't even have a real job. You know?
Alfredo:It's like I you know, we've seen enough of Milchick when he has been happy and been feeling like he is supported by Lumen that this felt very off. This felt like the first time that he actually had a what the fuck moment. And he looked at Natalie, and that's when Natalie does that whole line. It's like, and the board wants me to let you know that I also received this, and I am very appreciative of it. And, like, it's it was weird because imagine if he gets those paintings with the wall behind him that has nothing but, like, a little, like, four by five painting, no bigger than his computer, you'd imagine he'd probably put them up behind him if he really, really liked it.
Alfredo:I mean, we've talked about how that's kind of something that's, demonstrative of when we've had miss Cobell, who had these massive paintings behind her, and now his wall is just kinda bare and empty. And I wonder how much of that is supposed to be this imagery of, you're you're not exactly who we want. Maybe we don't value you as much, but here's something where we think we are making you feel a little more valued by giving you these paintings where we just essentially put Kier in blackface. Don't you love them? Natalie loves them.
Alfredo:Natalie, tell him how much you love them. And it's just like, I got so that scene, the, oh, god. The the scene with Dylan and and his wife, his his his, like, his Audi's wife. Like, there was a lot of uncomfortableness in this episode that just it just made me feel weird over and over and over. The show's still killing it, by the way.
Jagger:Yeah. And Dylan's wife, like, what what
Vignesh:do you think yeah. Like, do do you
Jagger:think that that is also a way to manipulate her? Because, like, we already see we already see what Lumen's doing with Mark where it's like, well, Rickon is the money bag. I don't know what his sister does. I'm assuming she doesn't work. Right?
Jagger:I don't I don't think, like, I think she just like, if Rickon's, like, a paid author, granted, you don't make a lot of money unless you sell a lot of books, but Rickon seems like he sells a lot of books.
Alfredo:He must be.
Jagger:So, like, what if we control the money there? Then we can kinda shut, you know, his sister up. What what is Dylan's wife getting out of that besides the page? I guess it's just a paycheck. It's just like, come here, make him happy, and then we'll keep that paycheck coming with your three kids.
Jagger:I mean, that's I guess that's the answer right there.
Kopfhamer:I mean, yeah. I think it's more controlling Dylan because you could hear it, especially at the end when they're leaving. Right? And he goes, I'll be good. I'll make you proud.
Kopfhamer:She's like, I'm always proud of you. So it it to me, that is that's that wedge I was talking about last episode where they're gonna use this incentive for Dylan to create the wedge between him and the other three in MDR. So this is gonna compromise him as a team member with their shenanigans off the clock or or, you know, wandering the halls. So this is absolutely about control, and it's just another way, I think, to remind, Dylan's wife, like, hey. Your husband's a fuck up.
Kopfhamer:You need him to do well here or else he's gonna be a deadbeat at home. And so I I think that's really what it boils down to is just basic control, and, like, they found the right stick and carrot to keep Dylan in line.
Alfredo:I think I think it's even beyond that. I think they've these these people that work for Lumen, people like Milczyk, Natalie, Coppell, not only have they grown up in this system, but you almost have to feel like there's some sort of training, like an employee training on how to talk to people because they are also subtly gifted at being manipulators. And I don't know if that's just something that you're just naturally gifted at. That's something that you have to learn over time. And for this many people to be that good at it, this feels like they've they've taken it beyond just the innies and the Lumen employees, and they're trying to get the other people.
Alfredo:And what it felt like with me with Gretchen, Dylan's wife, it almost felt like she had herself, like, a hot little fling going on with with Dylan's any because it's like, oh, that spark is kinda back in the relationship. Look at the way he's looking at me smiling the whole time. This Dylan All
Jagger:he cares about is his family. Yeah. All he cares about is because we saw Dylan. He's just like like, do we need wipes? You know?
Jagger:I'm gonna avoid my wife. Click. You know? And then you got this dude who's just like, oh, wow. I discovered I had a family.
Jagger:Wowee. You know? And I'm like, it should be like that. I'm not trying to be a shithead, but, like, I could I you could easily see from Gretchen where she's just like, wow. There's the man I fell in love with.
Jagger:Because, like, Gretchen ain't that bad looking. And she's a cop. She could probably tell Dylan to fuck off and deal with you know, go find it somewhere else.
Kopfhamer:Which really makes you think you know, it gave me a question. Can you if she does have, quote, unquote, an affair with the the innie Dylan, is that considered cheating? Because it is technically you're the same person, but it's the different personality. Like, when is this morally and ethically?
Jagger:They name dropped that two n e's had set or, like, it was just a brief throwaway line in, like, a news report that two n e's had sex and got pregnant in there. Like, inside there. That that was, like, a thing. Like, go back and and watch, like, season one on there that they brought that up. That that was one of the big things about seven rights is that, like, you don't know what's going in there.
Jagger:And so, like, your inn is going in like, think about Mark. Mark would never ever look at Helly like that because he's so in love with Gemma, or at least we we can assume at that point. Assume. But Yeah. Marcus doesn't know shit from you know, he doesn't know his head from his ass from up top.
Jagger:So he's gonna go in there.
Vignesh:Look at
Kopfhamer:And Look at Burton Irving.
Jagger:Burton's got
Kopfhamer:a man on the outside who apparently
Jagger:What what if Irving isn't even out of the closet? Think about that. Like like, Irv Irving's an old military guy. What if he, like, wasn't even out of the closet out there? And then his innies in there, it's like, I like this, and I don't care because I don't have society's pressures.
Jagger:You know? What's my hurt.
Alfredo:Oh, okay.
Vignesh:Oh, okay.
Alfredo:That's I I listen. Hey. I think that might actually be why he would be the perfect person to do the reintegration because he finally this whole thing of him knocking on Bert's door, finding out who he truly is, it allows him to accept himself. And maybe he becomes the perfect like, he wants to do it. And now you get Mark who wants to do it.
Alfredo:I'm I think I'm gonna keep leaning into that where the reintegration is gonna be it has to be that your mind has to be willing to want to do it. Mhmm. Alright. Next thing, which by the way, also the the, manipulation, it goes even further now to Rickon who was so easy. They're just like, yep.
Jagger:Your book
Alfredo:has made its way to
Kopfhamer:He said,
Jagger:what did you call it?
Kopfhamer:The results. Yes. The results. Oh, god.
Vignesh:Not all
Kopfhamer:of it.
Vignesh:Oh. Jesus.
Jagger:Like, you could just see it, like, looking at his wife. People love my book. As someone who's writing a book, dude, it it really is that easy. You're like, someone will buy my shit. It's like, sign me up.
Jagger:I don't give a fuck about Mark. Take him. He's he transitioned so hard from being
Alfredo:a guy who fucking hated everything about Lumen and Severance to all of a sudden, they're like, you want it in paperback? I can do that. And, like, he's just right back in.
Vignesh:Mhmm. And
Jagger:he's He wanted to take out some language, like, talking about freedom and life. And
Kopfhamer:Oh my
Jagger:god. I love how he
Kopfhamer:kept baiting Natalie. He's like, yeah.
Jagger:How did you describe it? How did you say that just to try to get her to,
Kopfhamer:like, compliment him again in front of Devin. Oh my god.
Jagger:This is Rick is such a bitch. As soon as I like him, like, I'm just like this this motherfucker.
Kopfhamer:Did you guys did you guys hear that Mike Birbiglia was supposed to be rickin' before, like, there was a scheduling conflict?
Jagger:I don't even know who he is. Could you name him? He's he's a stand up
Alfredo:comedian. Right?
Kopfhamer:Mike Birbiglia. He's been on a couple of things. Like, he I don't know. If you don't know who he is, like, I can see him perfectly, but I love the way that this actor is is portraying Rick, and he's just the right amount of, like, that's like you kinda wanna hit him in the face. But then he he'll pull something out, and it's like, ah, he's kind of an idiot, but lovable.
Jagger:Well, you
Alfredo:saw the book. The real
Vignesh:book is
Jagger:Jagger, you mentioned you
Alfredo:bullying people on, like, four of the last five episodes. I'm really scared to hang out with you in person again.
Jagger:Just don't act like Rickett, and you'll be fine. Don't be a pretentious nerd. You'll be fine. It's like it's really got the bar's low.
Vignesh:That's fair.
Alfredo:That's fair. Man. Okay. So by the way, you know, you could buy the book. The actual the Rickon's book is now available for you to go buy online.
Alfredo:You you are? Yeah. Yeah.
Jagger:I'm tempted to buy it to watch it for research just so I can send it to you guys all the time. Mid show, I'm like, actually, Rickon on page 45.
Kopfhamer:I saw I did see an excerpt from part of the book where it describes how basically he impregnated Devon, and it's disturbing. Oh, god. Recommend looking it up. Yeah. I'm interested.
Jagger:You would. You would. That's disgusting.
Vignesh:Where? Where? Weird. Exactly. Which
Jagger:site? Oh, god. Okay.
Kopfhamer:He talks about getting reengorged. It's great.
Jagger:Oh, god. Now I'm done.
Alfredo:Yes. And I'm out. And I'm out. Alright. Last thing that I wanna bring up here is the gas guzzler herself, miss Cobell, who's just wasting fucking gas, driving her car.
Alfredo:She can never drive the car normal either. She gets in, and she just Flintstones her foot through the fucking floor every single time she gets in there. And, I mean, she she she drives past Mark and just basically keeps driving until I don't know. Like, why did she reach that point and decide to stop and turn around? I I didn't quite get it.
Alfredo:We just see kind of a mile marker as to where she is. I don't know if she's maybe never been that far away from Lumen and and
Jagger:That's what it is. Here.
Alfredo:And that's what like, you just you get so far from home that you get uncomfortable and you turn back because she turns back and says, like, I'm coming back to my job. I wanna be on the severed floor working MDR, and you have to fire Milchik, and those are my demands. And Helena is like, no. Like, we don't we don't give a fuck.
Jagger:It's like, that's really cute. It's like, when we come inside here, come in this building. Don't don't look at the tall man. Just ignore big muscles over here.
Kopfhamer:Let's talk again.
Jagger:This yeah. Just hop in this weird vehicle, and Cobell just does, like, the slow fucking Homer Simpson.
Vignesh:Oh my god. This rag
Kopfhamer:this rag I have time in the back, just ignore it. It's fine.
Vignesh:Don't worry.
Alfredo:Does this smell like chloroform to you?
Jagger:Exactly. But, I did I
Kopfhamer:did love that scene, though.
Alfredo:The tension they built between Cobell and Helena was, it was Helena's Helena's got no shame, no fear. There is a hubris there unlike any character because Cobell Cobell's pretty confident in herself, but you could see how how, like, she kinda loses that by how volatile she gets. Like, Helena is just steady. Steady. And that kind of psychopath yeah.
Alfredo:That kind of psychopath behavior tells me that she absolutely went back in to portray herself as Helly and has no idea how to act with anybody. It's it gives me a lot of the same vibes as the the the girlfriend from Get Out where she's just really good at trying to pretend to be normal. And then when no one's around, she's drinking milk and eating cereal separate like a goddamn psycho. Like, that's that that's what it feels like with Helena. What?
Kopfhamer:Well, Helena
Jagger:was in that movie really smart. Up. What?
Kopfhamer:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Alfredo:You don't remember she's sitting there listening
Kopfhamer:to the tension.
Alfredo:She's listening to the Dirty Dancing soundtrack. She has a bowl of, like, I don't know, Fruit Loops with just a glass of milk, and she's eating and drinking them separate. By the way, my cousin Lauren, I know you do this. You're not a psycho. I love you, but it's fucking weird.
Alfredo:Okay?
Vignesh:So You're
Jagger:on a list, Lauren.
Kopfhamer:You're on
Vignesh:a yeah. I'm psycho. On a list. Psycho behavior.
Kopfhamer:But what I what I really loved about that scene was Helena just let Cobell basically, like, bluster on until she, like, ran out of breath. And then Helen's like, I hear a lot of ego and just, like, tears her down with oh, god. It was beautiful the way she just tore Cobell down. And then it got to the point where she's like, you know, let's reset. Let's call the board together, and we can we can, you know, see what we can figure out.
Kopfhamer:And that's when Cobell was like, I fucked up. I I I didn't I didn't realize I was with I was swimming with sharks, and that's when she hired to let it out there because she realized she was in over her head.
Alfredo:That felt very much like how it how it does in in a lot of, like, church aspects where you you you you kinda come giving whatever your your strong opinions are. And and then, like, this is not a knock. Like, I grew up in in in church as well. I went to a Christian school, so, like, anyone who's listening at this point, it it's not a knock at all. But, like, people are people.
Alfredo:They're humans. They they all say and do the wrong things all the time. With this, it really felt like the moment she wanted to be a free thinker and ask for something that she really wanted, she was told, Kier teaches us not to act like that. And everything you're doing is a sinful pride, essentially.
Kopfhamer:Yep. That's
Jagger:why I miss Doug Rayner. I miss Doug Rayner because he'd always he'd be like, yeah. There's a Kier quote for everything. Like, I would just fucking dismissive on it because I would lose my shit. Like, you nailed it.
Jagger:I I was about to bring that back to both of you. It's like you guys are both Floridians. You you guys grew up in the same South bullshit that I did and know how they'll like, you've been everyone's been tore down by southern church mom just like that. Or if you worked corporate enough, my favorite one is, like, HR would be like, I'm hearing a lot of me and I statements.
Kopfhamer:Oh. You know? God. Right.
Jagger:And I'm just like, I'm about to eat eat this person in front of me. Go full barrel.
Alfredo:Definitely getting fired after eating HR.
Vignesh:Just letting you
Jagger:Who's gonna fire him? HR's god. They can't fire him. I I absorbed HR's power. It's like when Mac eats the contract.
Jagger:It's like, yeah. There's no pocket anymore.
Alfredo:Okay. So with Cobell, the fear that kinda comes over her when Helena's talking about, like, let's call the board. Let's do a reset. How much of that is, in your eyes, a literal reset? Wondering, like, how much of it is them maybe resetting her brain, who she is, if we've talked about how she's been part of this this whole industry, Lumen and and Kier, since she was a child, what if she actually just has been in any this whole time?
Alfredo:And, like, kind of what the theory that was presented earlier, they could just flip the switch and either she does reset as a brand new person or reverts back to the Audi that really has no functionality in the real world since maybe being a small child. Like, there there's some, like, really weird dark shit that could be going on here, like, further than we've thought.
Kopfhamer:Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I'm I'm firmly on the on the camp that, Cobell is severed even though, like, they've given no indication outside of, like, she was raised in this. But I firmly believe she was severed. And and, again, the intentionality of what Helena is saying, the word she's using, it's weird as hell that you would phrase it, let's have a reset.
Kopfhamer:Like, that sounds very intentional of, like, we're gonna reset the chip in your brain and make you compliant again.
Alfredo:And so she's
Jagger:gonna keep That that just sounds like corporate jargon to me because, like, that that's Yeah. That's just like, let's put a pin in it. Let's reset Let's circle
Vignesh:it out.
Alfredo:Could be it could be that same thing as, like, Lumen is listening or, like, we got you. Like, there there could be a lot of that, like, double entendre through everything that there's that they're saying here. But I actually, like, what I wonder now is is she one of the few people that actually knows she's severed? Because Milchick has referred to himself as an unsevered man.
Jagger:Multiple times.
Alfredo:Yeah. So what if he actually I I don't know. Is he actually unsevered and and he's trying to be part of this? Or what if he actually is severed and doesn't know and thinks this is his his unsevered life?
Jagger:You can't, I mean, you can't rule anything out. Obviously, they lie to everybody. Like, everybody's there is lying. And then, I mean, obviously, how they work in silos, the information is held strictly to the top. You gotta think, what is Natalie's life?
Jagger:You you always gotta wonder
Alfredo:if it's bad, dude.
Jagger:Yeah. Like, what is she doing all the time? I was like, okay. You're walking fucking Bluetooth. Come here.
Jagger:Yeah. It's just, like,
Vignesh:like Dude,
Alfredo:every time someone wants to talk to the board, they contact her. Like, she's there for Helena all the time. She's there to speak to to Milchik all the time. Like, it's not like she goes home and she's just binging Netflix shows or or having fun. Like, this person has no semblance of a life.
Alfredo:She is terrified.
Kopfhamer:She's just she's a flesh and blood miss minutes. Like, she is at the beck and call of the board. Hey. You know
Alfredo:how me and Jagger feel about miss minutes.
Vignesh:I was
Jagger:about to say, I was like, I don't know. Like, you you can't hold her up to that candle just yet. She ain't killed anybody. Well, she's not. That's 10.
Kopfhamer:But what I mean is, like, she is a tool for the board. True. Miss Minutes has her own. But, like, clearly, Natalie is just a tool to be used by the board and by the higher ups at Lumen. Like, we see her in the real world with Helen at the end of last season when they're at the gala together.
Kopfhamer:But outside of that, we've only ever seen her in the environment of Lumen. So is she even a fully integrated person where she has another side of her, or is she one of these permanent innies who is at the beck and call of the higher ups? And what does that do to a person when they're just an innie?
Alfredo:I don't wanna add anything more. I think that was beautiful, Koff.
Vignesh:That was
Alfredo:a good place to finish here. Let's jump into our ratings for for this episode and our episode MVPs from episode three of season two of severance. Jag, why don't you kick us off?
Jagger:I mean, it's they they keep bringing bangers. I have no reason to give it less than a 10. I was locked in. I'm probably gonna rewatch. Like, like, it's a perfect show right now.
Jagger:MVP right now, I gotta give it I gotta give it to Irving. Irving, I feel like if there's anyone who's gonna fix this shit, he he him being a lone wolf with the exception of Bert, I think is helpful because there's not a lot that Lumen has over him, and he has the most suspicious mind, and he no longer can get honey dicked on the inside by Bert. So
Kopfhamer:Still a 10. I mean, yeah, they're they're giving me no indication that this train is not gonna arrive safely in the station. So, again, a 10. Man, this one was tough to pick an MVP. I think I'm gonna go with, you know, I think I'm gonna go with that with, with Dylan's wife, Gretchen.
Kopfhamer:Like, she went into a situation not knowing what to expect. She was kind. She was truthful. And, you know, she still was able she was able to bring some semblance of normalcy to Dylan g in the workplace. So I I think, you know, that was pretty important for him as a character.
Alfredo:Yeah. I like I like that our MVPs now are going just far beyond these main characters. It's not it's not Mark. It's not even Milchick. It's not you know, like, we're we're we're getting further and further from the center of the show.
Alfredo:And someone who we finally got to see a little bit more of in this episode, my MVP is gonna be Natalie because I think that scene with her and Milchik was so powerful where they I liked that scene between her and Milchik even more than the scene with Helena and Cobell where that was a a much more charged scene emotionally, and you were seeing that on their faces. But god damn. Like, if it was not so much more tense by what these characters had on their faces and what they could not say. And Natalie's sort of transitioned from that. She she's already got the big eyes naturally, but, like, the big eyes and, like, the sort of corporate smile to the kind of terrified shutter for a split second right back to the smile.
Alfredo:I think that that gave us so many more questions and concerns about Lumen and what's going on there than almost any dialogue in this episode. So my MVP for this one's gonna be Natalie, and you guys gave it a 10. I still think the show itself was at a 10. This episode for me, 9.5. And the only knock I'm gonna give was, like, the goat thing was just it's it was I don't know.
Alfredo:Like, it just didn't hit me. Right? Like, it was just it was still weird. I wanted more out of it. I'm sure we'll get that payoff.
Alfredo:It just it was a very sharp and abrupt entrance into, like, the goat cave, I'll call it. And I don't know that I really enjoyed all of the characters there all that much. That that's my
Jagger:With black Philip disrespect, he's gonna haunt you tonight.
Kopfhamer:One thing I do wanna say about this scene that I that I forgot to mention earlier. So I think it was very, funny and specific how she was like, we we need to see your bellies, a, to make sure they don't have pouches. But we clearly see that Mark has an any belly button signifying that this is any Mark, and then we don't see Hallie Hell in us. So we don't know if it's an any or an outie. So, again, visual clue that they don't want it to be they don't wanna show who it is.
Jagger:That that's a little that'd be too good, I think, but, I mean
Vignesh:I think
Alfredo:it was I really think it's legit.
Jagger:They didn't show
Kopfhamer:they didn't show a belly button.
Alfredo:I I I think that's that's kinda legit. Like, that was some real legit imagery. My first thought was, like, I forgot what show was it or movie or something where, like, the clones didn't have belly buttons, but the real people did because there was the cutting of the umbilical cord, but clones didn't have that. And so I was wondering if maybe, like, that's what they were asking about because they've had their own theories about other people. And then they said the no pouches thing, and I was just like, okay.
Vignesh:I I
Jagger:think it was a callback.
Vignesh:Yeah. It was a callback to it was a
Kopfhamer:callback to Bert when they were talking about the the differences between MDR and O and D, and he's like, yeah. And they said you got crazy things like you had pouches. So it was a nice little callback to that. But I think it was very specifically to show, like, no belly button for Halley because they don't wanna give their hand away that this is Halley or Helena or that this is a reintegrated Halley Helena. And that's why she vacillates kind of between the two personalities almost in the severed floor.
Kopfhamer:So who knows?
Alfredo:By the way, last episode, I talked about Mark's fish that he has, the the red and blue beta fish and how they're separated. If anything, to me, that's, I think I was looking at the wrong way that I was looking at is that it's like the innie and outie and how reintegration could lead to death. But I actually think it's pretty representative of how these departments are also very split. And, I mean, if we just want it to be even bigger picture here, America, the red and blue, it's split down the middle, and they wanna kill each other. We can we can get political.
Alfredo:We won't, but I'm just saying.
Jagger:That's what I thought was cool is that there are even Americans in there where it's like, look. They don't have a pouch. It's like, this proves nothing.
Alfredo:Max, our
Kopfhamer:bullshit be damned.
Jagger:Yeah. Alternative facts. Fuck. We can't even get it right with brainwashing.
Alfredo:Alright. That's gonna be a wrap for us, man. If you if you guys enjoyed this, please go back and check out our episode one and episode two discussions that we did here on YouTube and and on the podcast as well on the audio side. And, like I mentioned, we're gonna be back later on in the week with the debut episodes one, two, and three of season three of Invincible where we're gonna be discussing each episode there. As always, I wanna thank you guys for watching and listening all the way through for myself, for Koff, for Jagger.
Alfredo:We'll see you next time. Adios.
