This is Unbinged, the podcast breaking down your favorite movies, shows, and characters in pop culture fandom. And today, we are discussing our theories for Severance season two episode four. We're gonna be answering some of the biggest questions like Irving, our guy. The MVP of this episode was left out in the darkness, quote, unquote, at the end of this one. Are we gonna see him again?
Alfredo:How are we going to see him? We finally have an answer to Helly or Helena. What's the fallout from that? More Egan lore. I mean, this just gets deeper and weirder.
Alfredo:That's what she said. Dieter, is he even real? What's going on with that? We've got to see the tallest waterfall on the planet and, the musical prowess of miss Wong. Hang in there, guys.
Alfredo:It's time for an Ortvo on an all new episode of Unbinge starting now.
Kopfhamer:Guys, this is your one and only spoiler warning. If you're not caught up on severance season two or season one, what are you doing here? Give us a like, give us a subscribe, but go catch up on severance and then come back and listen to us spoil the absolute shit out of this show.
Alfredo:Irving outs the outie. I don't even think we have to talk about who's the episode MVP in all this because we all probably agree. It was Irving. He is everyone's MVP from this episode. The line where he said, what you said to me last night, it was cruel.
Alfredo:Hell, he was never cruel. Like, thank you. He's all of us that was just sitting there watching it, watching Helena this whole time. And it was interesting to hear the writers from this say that, Britt Lauer did such a good job not really giving it away. She did do a great job, but, like, damn, we all knew.
Alfredo:We all knew, and I'm really happy that they finally let this come out.
Jagger:Yeah. That's why Bert I told you. He was he's my MVP last episode. I was like, homie's locked in and asking the right questions. He's just like You
Alfredo:mean Irving. Right? Yeah.
Jagger:They're not
Alfredo:they're they can't be one person just yet.
Jagger:Yeah. Not I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Irving b.
Jagger:He's asking the correct questions, and he he's just like, I just don't trust you. You are shiesty as hell, and now you acting like a bitch right here. Oh, yeah. So now you acting like a bitch right here in the woods. Like like, what how how you gonna bring up my dead homie Bert like that?
Kopfhamer:And You can really tell. Honestly, I'm I'm a little upset that Vignesh couldn't be here, because I wanted to say to his face that I told you so. Since episode one, I I said this was Elena. Like, there's no way that they would allow Helly to come back into existence after where she bowled. So it makes perfect sense that this is Helena and that she would be spying from the inside.
Kopfhamer:Now what I would really wanna find out is, was she doing this at the request of her father and the higher ups at Lumen, or is she going rogue? And is she doing this on her own volition trying to get some sort of dirt or maybe just trying to feel something after being a corporate robot for the last thirty years.
Jagger:Well, we're bringing up going rogue when Milchick Milchick knew. He knew. And he was just like, hey. They found out. But there's a difference between When when they're, like,
Alfredo:doing Seth, like
Kopfhamer:There there's a difference between her going to Seth and be like, hey. As your boss, we're doing this. In Okay.
Alfredo:In her But he's also talking to someone else too.
Jagger:Well, yeah.
Alfredo:But he's talking to someone else and to
Kopfhamer:We still don't quite know if she had the board's approval to do this. So I think it's gonna be interesting as Fallout to see if that's a storyline or if it was all it's all kosher.
Alfredo:That feels very anti Lumen, very anti Egan, especially for Milchick who just my boy just got the promotion. You think the first thing he's gonna do is let me fuck around and and and go against go against my boss, you know, mister Egan? All all But
Kopfhamer:that's what she want.
Alfredo:I think this was a coordinated thing. I think this was a coordinated thing by everyone at Lumen that we simply, Helly is is unstable. We can't let her go back in there. Let's have you go in, and let's have you get get this team, you know, right the way we want them.
Kopfhamer:And it's like, you know what's for sure.
Jagger:Harbor where they would sacrifice, like, their own blood to go in there and and deal with this shit at this point. Because, like, to me, that that's because that's my biggest question. What is cold harbor? Are they hedging the whole company on it? Because you're gonna put your daughter in there.
Jagger:I mean, you will talk about risk. That's what's crazy to me is that you would risk Kelly going in there. Because, like, one, we know she can get pregnant. She can die. I mean, Helena, you at this point, is she into being choked a little bit?
Jagger:Because Helena's stuck get pregnant, man. That that that's what I'm saying. This has to be some type of I I don't know. Like, she she must need to feel something because she doesn't get that out there. Let's You wake up with a fucking noose on your neck in the elevator, and then you're like, gotta go back in.
Alfredo:Go back.
Jagger:And then yeah.
Kopfhamer:So it's but here's
Jagger:the other question. Right? Here's your away from my
Alfredo:fingers, goddamn it.
Kopfhamer:Yeah. Even even if she okay. Let's let's say that the board has full approval. Like, she's going in with the blessing of her father and Lumen higher ups. I can guarantee they didn't tell her go sleep with Mark.
Kopfhamer:Like, that's all her.
Alfredo:So so this is my theory on this, and and this kinda ties into all of the the religious feel to Lumen and to the Eegans and the lore that's sort of building up here. Heli feels sort of like the rebellious pastor's daughter. I don't know about you guys. I I went to a Christian school growing up, and the pastor in the church, nicest guy ever, his daughter was the biggest rebel possible. And this is the same type of vibe out here.
Alfredo:Like, she was waking up going out to neighbor's doors to go sleep with the neighbor boys at 03:00 in the morning. This is the same rebellious vibe that that Halley is giving or Helena, excuse me, is giving me here. The way she's laughing at the Kier story and, like, just basically putting it out there for everyone, like Yep. Oh, he was jerking off. Like, that's probably a story that she has thought is hilarious for her entire life.
Alfredo:And now she can get rid of the inhibitions because she's the innie, and she can laugh about it in there because she's not really herself. And she can finally just release all these things she's wanted to do. We saw how she looked at that video of her and Mark kissing. Now she's like, okay. I'm in this.
Alfredo:I can laugh at these stupid stories I've been told my whole life. I can go have sex with someone and do whatever the hell I want because I'm just an innie. And that's the vibe that I'm getting from this.
Jagger:That's what I get too. Because that's what I wondered, like, was she genuinely laughing? Because, like, I mean, it was funny. It's like, homie, you know, busted a knuckle baby in the dirt and then melted and died. Like, god struck him down.
Jagger:You know?
Kopfhamer:Like, that's just He spilled his lineage on the ground.
Jagger:Yeah. It's just that's hilarious. And that's kinda straight out of the Bible too. It's like Mhmm. Like, there's a whole verse in the Bible.
Jagger:Yeah. Like, it's better in the belly of a whore than in a a sock. It's not Well, the story the story
Kopfhamer:is about, like, how a guy didn't want he didn't wanna, like, impregnate his his sister-in-law because his brother died, but it's law that he has to, like, give a child and it's the whole thing. Yeah. Like, it's not so much that masturbation is evil. It's the spilling of the seed that's the the important part. And I think it's really poignant that Lumen, especially, is almost evangelicalizing that story where it's like, hey.
Kopfhamer:Your lineage, as they called it, is so important that spilling it is like a moral sin. So what does that have to do with you know, is there some sort of weird breeding program we don't know about yet? Maybe it ties into what they're doing with it.
Jagger:One with them goats. Yeah.
Kopfhamer:Yeah. Oh, boy. These half human, half goat theory in the back of my head starting to sound a little bit more,
Jagger:you know, painful. No. You're you're still you're still way out of fucking my field
Alfredo:on that one. No. No. It's not. But I'll I'll say this, though.
Alfredo:Like, the the Helena stuff, it's I do think there's a little bit of truth when she says I didn't like who I was on the outside. And I think yes. Yes. And I think that a lot of this this lore of the Eegans and Dieter and all that, which, by the way, I don't think Dieter is real.
Jagger:I think it's with Peter and then his, like like, Pierce mom. Yeah. Like, Pierce mom walked in on him, and she's like, what are you doing? She's like, he's like, that was my twin. You did it with your Peter?
Jagger:Yeah. No. It's Peter touching the Peter. Yeah. It's it's gotta be.
Jagger:I used I used to blame shit on, you know, an imaginary who gives a fuck.
Kopfhamer:Not the
Jagger:You had a Peter? Proud of that. No.
Alfredo:Oh god.
Jagger:I was I'm a grown man. I finished.
Kopfhamer:Because you're staggered. Look at
Jagger:me in the eyes while I finish. How
Kopfhamer:about that?
Jagger:In thirty two years, I haven't thought of that.
Alfredo:It's your dagger, baby.
Jagger:Yeah. My fiance's gonna love that.
Alfredo:Jack's like, alright, guys. I gotta go. Enjoy the rest of the show.
Jagger:Here comes dagger.
Kopfhamer:Jesus Christ.
Alfredo:So okay. So the way I I understood this is with that story is that Dieter is this, like, quote, severed version of Kier. It's his it's his shame. Right? And with that, like, I don't which I don't know which one of you wrote this down in our show sheet, but that Dieter is the inspiration for severance, which I 100.
Alfredo:Yeah. Jack, like, I 100% agree with that because it's what if you are so ashamed of the things you do and your, your inability to control the the four what is it? The four, like, the four tempers. The four tempers. Like, you're so ashamed of your inability to control these tempers that you just feel like what you can do is create this twin that is totally severed from who you are.
Alfredo:And that's where I think this all leans into is this purity versus shame. The innies are like newborn babies that are, in many ways, born again. We've seen this before in in churches and and whatnot. And I I think a lot of this is they're trying to create the perfect society of innies that don't have these horrible outside, you know, shames going on. And I really believe that's where a lot of this stems from is we're probably gonna see four different books, each book pertaining to a different thing.
Alfredo:And I don't know if you guys noticed this book had the giant, Roman numeral four on it.
Jagger:I can't read it at all, so I can't
Kopfhamer:read it.
Alfredo:That's fair.
Jagger:That's fair.
Alfredo:It's the one time I actually did read. So, yeah, this this book I mean, this is episode four. We have four people in the macro data refinement. This was a little bit of symbolism in here, and we got our our book number four. So I don't know if this is, like, the chapters of Eagan and and all these different temperaments, but I think this was really interesting, and I think that each of these temperaments is gonna show why the severance program was created.
Kopfhamer:So I I actually had a different take. So when Let's hear it. They first introduced the Ortbo and their I think it's on the video. Milchick's explaining what's going on. He even mentions, like, there is a fourth gospel that is so what was the word?
Kopfhamer:It wasn't sacrilegious, but it's so divine that it was kept entirely away from the severed floor. Like, they had no idea this was a thing. So to me, that sounds very much like an episode one when it's real to he had forty eight hours to put together a team. This sounds like a similar thing where they had, like, forty eight hours to put together, like, a hoax parable to try to get these severed innies in line. And this almost feels slapdash because, like, the book probably could get made very quickly quickly by o and d.
Kopfhamer:And, like, the little pedestal it was on, like, really cheap and, like, really slapped together. And the whole store like, it just felt it felt off, and it didn't feel like it was a a thing that's been established for a long time. And maybe that's why Helena laughed at it because it's so dumb and so new. She's like, this is ridiculous that you really think these innies are gonna fall for this. That's how I read.
Kopfhamer:And
Jagger:I actually kinda get that a little bit. Like, I don't think you're you're because I believe this whole thing, the whole purpose of it, was just to scare the shit out of him. He goes, you guys wanna go outside? What you're on a frozen lake. You know?
Jagger:What's fucking hilarious is, like, if you live like, I live in Colorado. Everyone's like, I wonder if he's gonna fall through. I'm like, it looks pretty fucking cold. If he's gonna fall through yeah. I was like, I'm pretty sure homie could tap dance on it.
Jagger:He's gonna be okay. You know? But you don't know that. And then you can lie to these motherfuckers, like, this is the tallest waterfall. You know?
Jagger:I was like like, buddy, we got that shit in Arkansas. Like, that ain't So, like, the best the best
Alfredo:thing is, like, there's not even a reason for him to lie like that, and he's just doing it anyways. Like, they have absolutely that's not a scary thing. It's not even, like, an incredible thing. It's just I think they just wanna keep infantilizing these these n e's and keep, like, making them really just have no semblance of understanding of what the real world is like.
Kopfhamer:Yeah. That makes sense.
Jagger:They're just, yeah, I mean, I that's what I think. Off balance. Because I think we we kinda get it. They're clearly the Audi is the deeter here. You're out there, it's like you're watching Yeah.
Jagger:SNL and jerking off and doing all kinds of bad stuff. In here, you're worshiping Kier. You're you're doing this. Yes.
Alfredo:Yes. I mean, think about it. Think about it. That's another point. PTSD.
Alfredo:Mark is a sad drunk. Dylan g can't hold down a job. He's a fuck up that he
Jagger:just learned. So it's like Hell, he's a fetid muppet. You know? Yes.
Alfredo:Yes. So it's
Kopfhamer:like on the outside, there
Jagger:are all
Alfredo:these things that they don't wanna be. Yeah.
Kopfhamer:Yeah. You you know what I just realized? The twins that they showed that helped them along the way were all dressed as their any version. So Yeah. I think it's a I think it goes right back to the point you're making of, you know, your innies are the ones that are designed to be helpful and and and guide you along the way because they are pure and they're unadulterated by the outside world.
Kopfhamer:And you, the person being guided in all black, is filled with shame, filled with all of this outside trauma and baggage. So I think that's spot on that, you know, this is supposed to be representative of how can we be pure and continue to move forward. And, yeah, I think it's interesting that every time they describe Dieter in this story, he wanted to live in the woods, be poor, and jerk off. And it's like, that's those are the three things that scared Kiera apparently the most in the world.
Jagger:Being poor living in the woods and just your
Alfredo:I can't I can't is, like, 20%
Jagger:of you. Yeah. If you offered any guy the chance, just go out the woods, jerk off, and be whoever you want
Kopfhamer:to be down. Let's do it.
Jagger:Yeah. It's like, what's the first thing you're gonna do when you make the lottery? Go in the woods and, you know, you'll fuck a sling Spider Mans all over the tree. Slink Spider Mans. He won with nature, baby.
Alfredo:But I listen. I still go back to them. We've said this so much throughout this series is that nothing they do here is by mistake. Even the stuff that seems weird or, like, very small, like the random TV and and VCR or whatever. That
Kopfhamer:that frozen seal thing.
Jagger:What the hell
Kopfhamer:is that?
Alfredo:Seal, the the little frozen seal that she makes. Like, all of this. There's I don't think any of this is by accident we start to learn. And and, really, it's whether or not we're picking up on on the foreshadowing here. Like, one of the things I saw going online is if you go back to the macro debt uprising video from episode one of this season, where in that, you see Helly's face in the water bobbing for the pineapple, and who's right behind her?
Alfredo:It's
Kopfhamer:Irving. Irving.
Alfredo:And, like, that's it's and it's it's so reminiscent of the scene where we're seeing her pressed into the water with Irving behind her, which, by the way, I just need to throw this out there, man. Like, poor Helly. She went from giving that speech up on the stage and getting tackled to we don't know where she's been or how long this has been to the next thing she realizes, she's being drowned in a river by Irving. And it's she he immediately goes from what whatever he was doing pushing her down into the water to cradling her and comforting her and taking care of her. Like, she's been through some shit, this any version of Helena.
Alfredo:Mhmm.
Jagger:And Irv, like, he was just like, I'm sorry. He's like, I had to do this shit, though. Like, that that He's also taking care
Alfredo:of her.
Jagger:Like, you're yeah.
Kopfhamer:Because, like, he has seen her threaten to chop her fingers off and kill herself. So he's like, hey. She'll be cool if I give her a little bit of, you know, reverse waterboarding.
Jagger:It to me, the Hubert it's gotta be hubris at this point. Because, again, Helena Helena is like she's trying to die, dog. Like, I I just don't know. I don't know how your Audi isn't fight fighting it more or Helena isn't fighting this more. I guess you're afraid to get called a fed and mop it.
Jagger:I I know that I'm not talking about fighting being drowned.
Kopfhamer:I mean,
Jagger:fighting yeah. I mean, fighting.
Kopfhamer:Oh, having to be back.
Jagger:Yeah. Being a fucking Trojan horse or something like that, which, by the way, next episode is called Trojan's horse. I wonder what that means. But it it to to me, I that's the part I can't wrap my head around is Helena. It's just like like, what what if the fuck are you
Alfredo:doing, darling? Funny. It's cops saying it's about condoms right after Mark and Halley definitely just had some unprotected sex.
Jagger:Yeah. Yeah, dude. Exactly. Mix up so she's gonna have a pregnancy test. I think it really does
Alfredo:look like her. Has gonorrhea.
Jagger:Yeah. That's that's our famous thing. It really is just a pastor kid shit, man. She's just like, fuck yeah. I'm gonna go down in there.
Jagger:I'm gonna be in marshmallows. I'm gonna have unprotected sex. It's straight up some dickens of marshmallows? And for some people, that's a nice little package. Camp shit.
Jagger:That's some church camp shit for sure.
Kopfhamer:Those marshmallows made me so sad. Those marshmallows made me so sad. He was so You
Alfredo:know what they reminded me of? The the square marshmallows, it reminds me when, when Michael Scott's Scott's out there doing the pancake breakfast for Michael Scott paper company, and he makes them into squares. Squares.
Jagger:And he's
Alfredo:like, no, Bob.
Kopfhamer:Sheets a piece of paper.
Alfredo:In circles. They're not gonna They don't take them all anyways.
Kopfhamer:But Milchick, honestly, this episode, I think we saw Milchick really at the end of his rope. Like, he has no patience for any of these idiots anymore.
Jagger:I I
Kopfhamer:don't think he's ready to
Alfredo:I don't think he can handle it.
Kopfhamer:He is snapping. Like, Like, he was ready to straighten through
Jagger:Irving. I mean, Irving was ready to throttle him. Because to me, I wonder who would win. Like, Milchick looks like you know, I'm sure Trammell Tillman works out in a little bit, but, like, what is Milchick yeah. What is what is Milchick gonna do, to to be honest?
Jagger:There's four of them out there. You got a little tiny Asian girl. Fuck. Yeah. She could tear it up on the theremin, but I don't know if she could hand, like, handle a fight.
Jagger:Yeah. I'm sure she has to
Kopfhamer:somewhere in her background. I mean Cough.
Alfredo:That's that's a five minute penalty for you.
Jagger:Jesus Christ.
Alfredo:About to say. Come on now. Yeah. No. You you just no.
Alfredo:You're out.
Jagger:It was a stretch me talking about an Asian girl being a a genius on an instrument at a young age. You know? He tried to bring out the fucking
Alfredo:Let me make a note of when to mute that out of the podcast. Give me a second. Jesus Christ. Alrighty. Twenty minutes mute cup said something pretty racist.
Alfredo:Alright. Moving on.
Jagger:Sorry for our white guy. Hold on a good one. I gotta go down the road.
Alfredo:So we we talk about, we talk about Irving here. Right? And, like, first of all, we we see, like, probably some of the most physical stuff that we've seen since maybe Milcic, like, just tackled Dylan g to the ground. But in that ending there, we get a a few different things. One, we get this, what do we wanna call it?
Alfredo:A vision, a dream, a hallucination, for for Irvin?
Jagger:All of it.
Alfredo:Oh, yes.
Kopfhamer:Almost freezes the next.
Alfredo:Well and so and but, like, that the way he sees that stuff, it makes me wonder that's why I still have that theory that I don't believe this is actually the outside world. I wonder what kind of state of mind that these innies are actually in. Like, could they actually be in some sort of cold harbor while they're doing like, I don't even know. I don't even know, at the I'm not gonna try to guess, but he gets this vision, this dream. I don't know if you guys noticed, but I put the picture here on our show sheet so you guys can see where the the computer screen that he's looking at that looks like all the macro debt numbers, it starts to form the face of Helly, and those numbers turn into Egan.
Alfredo:And I get it. Bert must have been an intelligence or something when he was in the military. This was very interesting, and I wanna know how he figured it out. I wonder if maybe it's something that his Audi actually knows or his Audi figured out, and this was a way that it got to his in his head. There's gotta be something
Jagger:that he's smart. Yeah. Like, we've seen it on the outside where he's drawing hallways and doors and shit, And then the black paint is coming in on on the inside. So
Kopfhamer:Yep.
Jagger:I mean and and he kind of I mean, to be honest, yeah, he's smart. But if anything, he was just asking the right questions. He's like, a night gardener? Get the fuck out of here. You said because right away, when she said when she said night gardener, I'm like, the fact that you brought up a gardener means you're rich.
Jagger:Even rich people don't have gardeners. They have HOAs with contracts with landscapers. You don't call you don't have a fucking gardener anymore. This isn't If you have a private if you have a private property, they That's what I'm maybe do. Yeah.
Jagger:But at that point, you're having, like, big money. And then he's just like, who could bring their Audi down here? Who has that power?
Kopfhamer:Who'd have that power?
Jagger:It would it would have to be an Eagan or someone like that. It wouldn't be a regular motherfucker that they would send down
Kopfhamer:there.
Jagger:So Right.
Kopfhamer:I mean
Alfredo:It was it was that's the only thing where, like, I I wanna find out more because that was the biggest jump. Because it also could have just been this whole time, a Lumen employee, an upper management, upper level. To jump to Egan, I feel like he's gotta know something on the outside because it's it's a big jump.
Jagger:He only knows six people. That's what I thought was funny when, like, Milchick, it's just like, it's mister Milchick for work. I'm like, cool. You're one of the five people I've ever seen.
Kopfhamer:You know what?
Jagger:I was The only black guy I've ever seen in my fucking life.
Kopfhamer:What I found interesting was none of the innies were more excited or interested in the prospect of sleeping for the first time in their lives.
Jagger:Oh. Because if you
Kopfhamer:think about it, the outies are the ones that sleep. So the fact that they get to have an overnight experience as an innie, you'd think there would have been a more profound moment where they're like, what the fuck are we doing? What is this? In the end, they didn't do it.
Alfredo:Cough. I
Kopfhamer:was very I was very confused. I thought they were having Oh, at least Dylan
Jagger:made a comment. To be fair, Mark was getting worried about getting his dick wet. So we could just, like Throw him out of
Kopfhamer:the heat. He gives a pass.
Alfredo:He got to experience it all. He had sex and sleep all in one night. He missed out on the marshmallows, though. Damn it.
Jagger:Yeah. Sleep was, like, the least of Mark's worries. So
Kopfhamer:But you're telling me Dylan Dylan didn't wake up the next day and be like, guys, that was incredible. Like, something, some profound statement. And only the wake I
Alfredo:mean, to to it's interesting because that I wonder if that's purposeful or maybe it wasn't restful or maybe it didn't even feel like sleep to them. I don't know because they do point out other things like, man, I knew there wasn't a ceiling everywhere, you know, and, like, that's what the sky looks like. And and they actually have a cold breath coming out, and they're seeing The torch. What appear to be a dead animal is the torch. Like, they're seeing fire, and there's something that's beautiful.
Alfredo:It's multifunctional. There's all these things to it. You're right, Goff. I'm actually amazed. I'm amazed that they weren't more amazed by sleep in general.
Alfredo:Yeah.
Jagger:I guess so. Yeah. I think you kinda said it, though. I mean, you're right. Like, they probably should have brought that up, and that might be speed riding oversight or something.
Jagger:But all the things you said ahead of time, it's like, wow. I'm seeing breath, trees, a dead thing. Like, they've never seen death before. They they really wind. Yeah.
Jagger:They told me. Remember when
Alfredo:the other replacements were, like, what's wind like? Is that just like someone blowing in your face? And, like, they they experienced it now. And I don't maybe maybe they just didn't need to overdo it with all the things they were experiencing for the first time because it was so fucking weird. And maybe Right.
Alfredo:Let's go back to that, Jack. I think that's why they probably set them up in all these different spots that They are so disoriented that they almost can't experience everything for the first time because they're just trying to survive. Like, they don't even know what the fuck everything is.
Jagger:Yep. I was like, I'm just trying not to die out here because, like, you you they treated it like they're on alone. You know? That's why I think they're just trying to scare the shit out of them. Like, it's like, alright.
Jagger:Millchick, you're gonna put them out in the woods in the middle of nowhere and then, you know, bring the swan. Play something creepy. Play some creepy shit on Theremin. Then, tell them some scary masturbation stories, and then, you know, they'll never wanna leave that room again. Like, to me, you wanna talk I will say cost 4 like, five minute three.
Jagger:Like, to me, that was the elevator pitch. They're just like, we'll we'll scare them in the woods. Ever seen, are you afraid of the dark? We'll do that to him. You know?
Alfredo:Are you afraid of jacking it? Yeah. This is this is such a heavy masturbation episode. Sorry.
Jagger:I mean, come on. The whole it's it's a whole episode. It's a whole episode. It's it's fucking and jerking it.
Alfredo:The crux of the of the episode was jacking it. Yeah.
Jagger:The fulcrum.
Alfredo:The climax of the movie. What it is. I know what it is. It's such a perfect word for this that sounds dirty, and it's Yeah. It very much feels like
Jagger:the definition of fulcrum would be the
Alfredo:of sword fighting there. So yeah. I, yeah.
Jagger:I chose my word carefully.
Alfredo:That was that was perfect. That was perfect. Okay. So I'm I'm interested what we're what's gonna happen next year. Okay?
Alfredo:Because we have Irving. I'm sure we're gonna see him again, obviously, on the outside. I don't think we're ever gonna get an any version of Irving. But I do think now we're probably going to get answers of what happened to his Audi on the outside. We're probably gonna get more insight as to how Helena went in to Lumen and MDR as an any.
Alfredo:What do you guys wanna see there with Irving, or what do you think we're going to get there?
Kopfhamer:You don't think I
Alfredo:mean, what happened?
Kopfhamer:Try to recruit him? Yeah. I think Reboni Reboni? Reboni? Reboni.
Jagger:You're not Regobi. Regobi? Regabi. Yes.
Kopfhamer:I don't
Jagger:That was a 48 slip dog.
Kopfhamer:Yeah. There you go. Yeah.
Jagger:This is a
Alfredo:48. For sure.
Kopfhamer:But Regabi I could see Regabi trying to recruit him now that he is, you know, no longer allowed to be an NE. So he could be looking for answers, especially with how angry he was at the end of last season when he got fired unceremoniously. He was like, I'll pay was there damages I'll pay for? And Miltrick said, now you you're getting let go. And he was pissed.
Kopfhamer:So I can absolutely see, Irving's Audi. God, that's gonna that's gonna throw me off. Any Irving. Any Irving. Audi Irving.
Kopfhamer:Audi Irving getting pissed off that he got fired and wanting not only answers about why he was fired, but also if he's seemingly on the trail of something already. So I can see this now. I mean,
Jagger:that feels like it's easy
Alfredo:for them to be like, oh, you tried to murder someone, and it's just like, well, you know, I do have PTSD. I can see how my enemy did that. And he just does like the gym looks the gym looked to the camera. Like, oops.
Jagger:Yep. One other thing too that I thought was risky is that another thing too, I wanna know if there's gonna be repercussions for Lumen that they activated his Audi when there's other people around. You gotta think he's already suspicious. He's already going around Bert g. Now you could see the faces of people around you.
Jagger:And clearly, they live in a close proximity goes
Kopfhamer:around there. Mark.
Jagger:That's what he's saying because
Kopfhamer:he's already There you go. Yeah. Yeah.
Jagger:He's he's he's clearly an innate paranoid person. The outside's paranoid, inside's paranoid no matter what. So I I really like, to me, I feel like they fucked up by deleting Irving be like and to me, they fucked up by doing that anyway. You could put them on a new team. You could do a lot of stuff.
Jagger:Mhmm. But if you're, like, you got fired again because you tried to kill someone. If I'm Irving Bailiff from the outside, I'm like, come on now. What y'all are up up to some shit. So that I mean, if anything, he might find Regavi at this point.
Jagger:So
Alfredo:Mhmm. You know what's interesting is is I actually think there might be some credence to what you said, cough, is that they really didn't plan this very well, and they maybe slapped this together last minute because they don't seem to really have true policies and procedures to how this happens. Like, Milcic is just like, well, he did oh, okay. I'll go back a little bit, and I will take two steps back here in that. The way he just recited the like, basically, the Miranda rights to Irving that, like, you tried to murder someone and we're gonna have to, you know, whatever and put you back into the real world.
Alfredo:But then, like, the the process after that was just, like, turn around, walk into the woods, homey took three steps, and they're like, alright. Do it. Remove the Glasgow block. And it was just like, what? That's it?
Alfredo:And, like, now I I I would assume the next episode is gonna start with them there in the forest and New Irving or
Jagger:that shit. I thought this We
Alfredo:can't assume anything now because
Kopfhamer:we thought
Alfredo:we were gonna get more.
Jagger:I thought I thought
Kopfhamer:I skipped it episode by accident when this when it started. I was like, what the the cold open threw me off so hard because I was like, where where are we? What are we doing? And, again, I think that's intentional because we're supposed to be just as confused as the innies waking up in this new environment. And it's like, wait.
Kopfhamer:We're on the outside. And I think that goes to like like I was saying, this feels very rushed to very, like, last minute put together. And I think that goes the way you were saying where they don't have set procedures yet. They may have the bones of something, but, like, hey. If there's a situation where two Audis get into it and one attacks the other one, here's here's how you handle that, but it's not fleshed out because it's never happened before.
Kopfhamer:And so now this is the first time they actually have to implement these things. And so we're seeing that it's like, shit. We don't quite know what we're doing because this has never happened before. So this could be new territory of the company.
Jagger:They've been on plan z plan z since, like, the end of season one. Because, I I mean, it's like we've locked them in. We've told them not to do this and this. And then did we really think they were gonna let loose their n e's out in the real world? Because even we joke about the hubris.
Jagger:You this the security they have, you kinda think that that would never happen. So at this point, they're really playing jazz, and they're a company that's not really built on being reactionary. They're always kind of in control. So that's kinda funny to to see. You know?
Jagger:They're they're just not used to ever being in this position. And, again, like, what is cold harbor that they're willing to risk it at all? Because you gotta think at this point, someone would be like, let's just shut this shit down. You know? We got That's
Alfredo:exactly what I was gonna say.
Jagger:Yeah. It's like, let's just shut this shit down. You got Yeah.
Kopfhamer:It's gotta be
Jagger:a dead lady. Yeah. You got a dead lady down here. What the fuck are we doing? This is a PR nightmare to say the least.
Jagger:You know?
Alfredo:Dude, that's exactly where my head was is is how important is Mark at this point? Like, what makes him so important to this? Is it I I I don't know. Is it something where maybe Gemma is also really important because of where she is in Cold Harbor? And I, like, I don't know.
Alfredo:Were they chosen?
Jagger:Because there's a theory that they that they make the four tempers and that what they're sorting is numbers into the four tempers because there's those four boxes there that say, like, mount like, f r for frolic and stuff like that. That man. Because, like yeah. Like, so, like, maybe each team that they have there, they're like, we're gonna get someone who's a little frog. Let's get a little Dylan, a little fuck up, and then we're gonna get a little depressed guy like Mark.
Jagger:And then we're gonna have them separate all these tempers out. And maybe maybe at this point, like, each one is assigned their specific temper, their file that they're supposed to to to separate out.
Alfredo:What what if there's even more? Like, what if there's even more?
Kopfhamer:What if there's
Jagger:even more?
Alfredo:What if they have been it what if they have been intervening in their outside lives for all this time? Like, what if we find out the car accident that killed Gemma Lumen had something to do with it?
Jagger:I mean, that was clearly believe. That's what I Like, are are is that even a theory at this point? Yeah.
Alfredo:No. But I'd be like
Kopfhamer:It seems confirmed.
Alfredo:It it could have been well, I mean, I I I at least like, I was thinking that it could have just been them taking advantage of an opportunity, someone that they thought was dead and didn't die, or they're just grabbing dead freshly dead people and bringing them back to life. Like, there's there's a lot of things that I thought could've been going on there. But for them to actually be plotting these things, like, what if maybe Dylan's not that big of a fuck up and, like, all of the the conspiracy theories might be real? They've just been messing up little parts of his life and making him lose jobs here and there to the point that he's like, I gotta go back in. It's a really loose theory, but I I think there's something there at least specifically with Mark and Gemma.
Alfredo:Because Jagger, like you said, why keep this whole macro debt group together? Why bring them back? Why go through all this bullshit
Kopfhamer:Bullshit.
Alfredo:Unless there's something with Mark.
Jagger:Well, like, it is Going
Kopfhamer:back to last episode too, we had the confrontation between Helena and, Clavel, and they talk specifically about how Mark is important, and he's very close to finishing the cold cold harbor file.
Alfredo:Yeah.
Kopfhamer:So he is tied into this somehow, some way.
Alfredo:You you remember the last episode of season one? Remember the last episode of season one when Mark's innie is is out, and he's at the party, for for the book reading, and he's talking to Cobell. And I guess it was at that moment his Audi was just saying, you know, I'm thinking of quitting. She hugs him, and she's like, you get out of there.
Kopfhamer:Do you have
Alfredo:You get out of there. Like, there's there's absolutely something with him that's so much bigger than what we're thinking. And I'm I'm curious. One thing that I I wanna see is what happens with his reintegration and how that's going to affect, like, what he knows, how Lumen treats him, what what's going on there. Because I think I I probably assume that's where the next episode goes back to because this show does not keep us on the hook for too long with anything.
Jagger:Another thing that we should keep in mind too is that the government clearly has interest in this because we have senators that are involved. There seems to be Is
Kopfhamer:the government in this show? Because we don't we don't know if it's The
Alfredo:whole theory
Jagger:that it's Russia, I it's United States, Doc. Like, I just I feel like we're getting too far out out
Kopfhamer:there. No. No. No. I read a theory I read a theory that this show, if you look at the dates that Lumen was founded, it was I forget exactly.
Kopfhamer:It was either two years before or two years after the civil war or something and how that they may have possibly changed something within the timeline with the ways the civil war went or with how, you know, reconstruction went. And so there may be massive differences in how the severance government works versus our government. Like, they may have gone oligarchy much, much sooner than we have in our in our timeline.
Jagger:Oh, they didn't wait till 02/2024? Anyway, I will say that maybe I will accept multiverse, but I just think that a lot of these, like, wiser stick there in Russia. I was like, come on, guys. Like, they have them naming the American states and shit. And it's like, well, you're gonna convince and make a fake sister in Russia too?
Jagger:I mean, they they could, I guess, and just it just a little out there.
Alfredo:Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't I don't think the Russia thing is it because Mhmm.
Jagger:People saw hats, and they're like, it's Russia.
Alfredo:No, man. Like, it's just it it's just a weird style in the show. Like, that's all.
Kopfhamer:We just don't know what sort
Jagger:of government agency
Kopfhamer:yeah. We just don't know what sort of government agency Lumen may be beholden to, or there may be no threat from the government, and Lumen could do whatever they want with no repercussions. That's what
Jagger:I'm saying.
Kopfhamer:We don't know.
Jagger:This is referencing something that's, like, super niche, but, like, Terminator zero kinda did that. Mhmm. Like, where it's, like, this is a different alternate universe, and that's why, you know, this is the nineties, but I'm talking to a fucking AI floating ghost because shit is different. So I could accept that. But back to my point there is that this clearly is, like, government involvement here to where this is gonna be Yeah.
Jagger:Let yeah. The other people besides Lumen are gonna use severance.
Kopfhamer:What if they did severed soldiers? Yeah. I can see the
Jagger:That's what I meant. Like, that's what I meant. That's my point. It's like
Alfredo:There's wait, man. Like, whenever there is a tech company that can make a product, a service, and anything, you best believe the government is gonna get these things contracted and and find out what way they can use it and use it for free
Jagger:or Google. Their pledge not to use AI for weapons and Do you guys that stuff.
Kopfhamer:So Do you guys know anything do you guys know anything about MK Ultra, the, the CIA
Jagger:Yes. But let's not go down that rabbit hole too
Alfredo:deep. Okay. Just over about thirty seconds before the video gets taken off YouTube. So
Kopfhamer:Imagine severed assassins. Right? So that's the ultimate angle of unclear ultras to create assassins that were basically Manchurian candidates that they could put in sleeper cells and then in a moment's notice activate. That's severance.
Jagger:Ignorant mofos, that means winter soldier. They winter soldierhood.
Kopfhamer:Holy shit. The government with severance is a scary, scary thing. Oh my god.
Jagger:I mean, that to to me, that's the immediate like, that's the immediate use for it. It's like Yeah. Like, every company is gonna start using this. Like, you're gonna go to a radio station, and they're like, alright. Swipe in.
Jagger:You know? I'm Jagger b.
Kopfhamer:Hot Donna. I think I'm a radio.
Alfredo:I I do think there's, like, there's two sides of it. I definitely think there is the side of it where it could be governmental, and there's what can we gain out of this, and, like, how dark can that really go? And then I also do think there is probably the other little more crazy side that's a bit more cultish that is, like, these are the perfect people, and this is the perfect utopian society that we wanna make, the perfect followers. We can get them to do whatever we want. And I don't know, man.
Alfredo:Like, there's just a lot of different threads that we can pull to try to unravel this, and I just don't think at this point we're going to. What I do think is interesting was after this episode, you know, they do, like, the, like, the behind the scenes stuff and promo of what's coming next. The head writer, Dan Erickson, talked about how season one was very much about a childhood. Right? And how a lot of these characters are being born for the first time in their infancy.
Alfredo:Season two is more about, like, adolescence and being teenagers. And that's why we're seeing them. They're rebelling more. You've got hell Helena's having sex and gets her first kiss, and there's romance. And there's, you know, all this.
Alfredo:You don't even quite know who you are when you're a teenager going through this growing up, and it's really finding yourself. So I wonder how I mean, if we wanna follow the natural order of life, season three could be adulthood and probably finding out that everything really fucking sucks because it does when you're an adult. If you're, like, 20 years old and you're watching this, sorry. It's gonna suck in about ten years. And then season four, I think, could end up being something like death if if we are going beyond the season three.
Alfredo:So I I think there's a lot of interesting things here, and I wonder how something like adolescence for this season ties into Mark's reintegration. What is he seeing when because he has that moment where he sees Helena, and then he sees Gemma, like, out of nowhere, and that freaked me the hell out.
Jagger:I thought that was just guilt. Scary.
Kopfhamer:I thought that was guilt. His his reality realizing it. Yeah. I think that was just Well, I
Alfredo:mean, you gotta you gotta think that you gotta think that even with Irving and his vision that he had and then Mark's reintegration and seeing something there, you have to think a lot of this is fired off by memories, emotional, you know Smells. It's got yeah. It's gotta stem from from emotion. There's gotta be neurons firing that are allowing these things to happen. That's why reintegration probably just isn't easy to control.
Jagger:Yeah. Especially stuff with subconscious that's, like and again, I know we talked about this when the episode what it is. It's like sexual desire, you know. He's just, like, you know, my pee pee
Alfredo:had The
Jagger:last time
Alfredo:yes. Yeah.
Jagger:It's like Go, Jake. Go. Yeah. I was about to say it's like my I was like, I haven't felt like this in a long time, and all of a sudden that that triggered some because, like, he had a woman who liked him, and he clearly wasn't like, he was interested or he tried to be interested, but he wasn't ready. You know?
Jagger:Yeah. The any is is just down. You know? I'm fresh. Mhmm.
Jagger:I don't know nothing about death. I'm just trying to get it in. You know? I'm just trying to That's strange. Yeah.
Jagger:I'm just trying to get my Dieter, some strange.
Kopfhamer:Yo. This episode really made me reconsider the phrase, let Keir's hand guide you. Oh, god.
Jagger:At least it's not let Dieter's hand guide you. That's a perfect way
Alfredo:for us to finish. No notes, cough. You you kind of redeemed yourself.
Jagger:I love that in joke too. That is a good way to finish. A o Yes. Hey, Leo.
Kopfhamer:But, seriously, we go back to season two episode one. And when Milczyk asked, should I fire them? What does Helena tell him? Let Kier's hand guide you. And so, again, he's homies he is obsessed with jerking it.
Jagger:Milchick's frustrated for sure.
Alfredo:Yeah.
Jagger:Yeah. Take his home out there. Yeah. Sexually frustrated. Sucks.
Alfredo:Well, that's gonna do it for us. Yeah. Keep letting Kier's hand guide you and hang in there, which, by the way, I think there's probably a little some sort of coded message in there for Dylan. Just saying. We're gonna be back again later on in the week.
Alfredo:We've got episode four of Invincible season three. If you have if you're watching that show if you're not watching the show, go and start watching that. It's it's phenomenal animation. It's a lot of fun. It's not your typical hero animation story.
Alfredo:It it's it's so much better than that. And, episodes one through three just came out. You can go check out our discussion on that. And if this is your first time getting into this video for severance with us, go back and check out our other discussions of episodes one through three. We're gonna keep doing this every single week after the episodes, and these are gonna be coming out typically on Monday or Sunday.
Alfredo:So we're we're gonna have those out for you guys as soon as we can. But, as always, I wanna thank you guys for watching and listening all the way through for myself, for Jagger, for Koff. Hang in there. We'll see you next time. Adios.
