Today, we're doing our review and discussing Daredevil Born Again episodes one and two. We're gonna be answering some questions like, was this really worth the seven year wait? How does this new show hold up to its predecessor from Netflix? Did Disney make it too different, not different enough? We're gonna go through some of the scenes here, but ask some of the biggest questions that we have about these characters, the direction of the show, how it compares to the comics.
Alfredo:And, obviously, we have to jump into that big spoiler of an opening scene in episode one and discuss that cliffhanger at the end of episode two. We're gonna talk on all that and more on an all new episode of Unbinge starting now.
Jagger:This is a review and discussion podcast. If you are spoiled about Daredevil within the seven years that you've had to watch it, I'm sorry. And I'm sorry if we spoil the first two. Look away, traveler.
Alfredo:Daredevil, born again. How does it hold up to its predecessor? Cough, we've been waiting seven years for this. Was it worth the wait?
Kopf:Wow, man. That's that's a really good question. Yeah. A tough one to answer because at first, I'm not gonna lie. I watched this after work last night, and I was exhausted.
Kopf:And it took me a minute to get hooked. And it wasn't until Foggy got shot that I was like, oh, okay. Maybe we are back into
Alfredo:It's like five minutes in.
Kopf:Yeah. But that first five minutes
Jagger:You mean it took you a literal minute to get It
Kopf:took me a literal minute to get into it. Exactly. But it it it felt very slow at first because it's like, okay. They're Josie's. They're just talking.
Kopf:They're just connecting. It's like this is this is a little strange. Then then we get that beat where it's like, oh, this is Daredevil. And, you know, I then I was hooked. Then I was like, alright.
Kopf:We're back in this. So I'm glad it's back. Could they have done it sooner? God, I wish they had, but, you know, I'm not gonna complain now.
Alfredo:Jack, what'd you think? Was it was it too different? What were the vibes after this first episode?
Jagger:To be honest, I want it different in a sense that I wanted a faster paced show, and that's something that they've really promised. And they started off with hot action right away. We got we got a really good, bullseye sequence there. Like I said, five minutes, we get the foggy death on there. The CGI, sometimes, it fell out of place on there.
Jagger:But Yeah. What difference did I did like? I like seeing Matt travel with his Billy Club. I felt like we never got the swinging, and I feel like that's the only way, like, we kinda have to do that with CGI without making it look like, like, impractical on wires. So, you know, I cannot complain so much.
Jagger:You know? I'm okay with the differences. Yeah.
Alfredo:We got that a little bit in Netflix, and it never quite looked good. And I know the CGI is something that has been talked about by many people, and I think all of us agreed, like, there are just times when the CGI doesn't look great. To me, it looked very much like most Marvel CGI fights where you can tell the difference between when the character is CGI and when the character is real. And I think being on a TV budget, it's probably a little bit more jarring than it would be in an actual Avengers movie. But I think all in all, with with getting that out of the way, I actually really love these first two episodes.
Alfredo:I've been binging through seasons one, two, and three, and this felt like we just got thrown right back into it. And and that's why I didn't mind that opening where you have Foggy, you have Karen, they're at Josie's. It's it's really getting the nostalgia factor back in there, and, I thought they did a really good job with that. It was quick. And then, Jag, you're right.
Alfredo:The thing I loved most about this new show is the pacing. They really promised on that because that was something they said from the beginning. They didn't wanna have characters sitting around posturing, talking about their feelings, talking about their morals and values for so long. I think the longest conversation we saw of anyone might have been the best scene in this whole show, and that's with Fisk and Matt sitting in the diner going back and far forth and having that little tete a tete with each other, which we're gonna talk about that in a little bit. But, I think the show has really nailed the aesthetic, the pacing, a lot of things despite not necessarily getting to the CGI.
Alfredo:What was the thing that stood out to you guys most there in that opening scene? We get the death of Foggy Nelson. Right? Koff, how how are you feeling about this? I know there's a lot of people upset.
Alfredo:You know, you promised us these characters coming back and you take them away. What stood out to you there? How'd you feel about it?
Kopf:I honestly at first, I was like, they're gonna kill Karen, because that's what happens in the comics. So the fact that they switched the fog is, like, okay. That's an that's a a smart choice in my opinion because it gives you a similar beat to the comics emotionally format while still being different enough to where it's its own story. Would I have liked to see Foggy around more? I mean, hell, yeah.
Kopf:He was he was finally starting his groove. He was, you know, spitting game at Kirsten and then, sadly, gets shot right in the chest. But it's a huge difference having a a love interest like Karen die and your best friend die. So we see that rage on Matt's face when he throws Bullseye off the roof. And how did he how did Bullseye survive a four story fall right to the head?
Kopf:That's what I wanna know.
Jagger:Bullseye supposed to have an adamantium skeleton. So, like, I and it's and he gets it after being thrown off a building.
Alfredo:Is it adamantium or something else? It's like another type of alloy or something. It's like we But he reads in the comics.
Kopf:It was like Cognium
Alfredo:or something. Yeah. In the show, it was something different, but they'll probably just retcon that, make adamantium. But I I I thought he was dead right there.
Kopf:But that was just his spine that they worked on in season three of Daredevil. So I don't know. The way he fell, it was like he fell flat on his face, and it's like that should've killed him. So yeah. Skull should've shattered.
Kopf:So are we thinking he has some sort of maybe secret super soldier serum, or is it just going back to that surgery?
Jagger:If they did if they did that, that that's just like that's egregious if they would do that. I'm not saying you're wrong. No. That's what I'm not saying you're wrong, but they could do that.
Alfredo:There's gotta be something more where this character comes back again, and we're gonna learn more about him. Maybe it's not a super soldier serum, but it could be anything involving the the way his his body has been changed with the the new upgrades to his spine. Because last time we saw him was at the end of the series where he's getting those upgrades to his spine. And I don't think you I don't think you do this whole rigmarole of having him go through court and getting the sentence if the character's not gonna somehow be brought back. Like, just let him die and let that be the thing that drives Matt to no longer wear the mask.
Alfredo:Because he stops wearing the mask anyways because he crossed the line, because he tried to kill Bullseye, and he didn't. And so why is the mask off now? Like, after all I get it. It's the foggy thing, but, I will say, like, that to me was a missed opportunity. There's gotta be a reason that they're going to be bringing him back.
Alfredo:And, Matt, you mentioned that wow. I can't believe I called you Matt. I think it's because of the character, Matt Murdock. But Yeah.
Jagger:Right.
Alfredo:Cough. Big difference from the comics that you mentioned is that Bullseye kills Karen in the comics. However, I do wanna bring this up is that there is a storyline in the comics, The Secret Life of Foggy Nelson, where his death is faked so that he can go into witness protection. And, like, one of the theories I've heard is that we've seen, like yes. Matt Murdock hears his heart stop, but we've also seen that Nick Fury has stopped his heart too.
Alfredo:There could be, the hand, Elektra, anyone bringing him back. I don't know that I would love that. But so far so far, the directors have confirmed that, the same actor, I can't remember his name, Elton something, will be in season two of Daredevil Born Again. So whether that is a recall, a memory, a flashback, or it's the real character, I don't know. But I think that door might still be open.
Kopf:See At a certain point, death has to mean something, though.
Jagger:That that's what I'm saying. Like, death has to mean something eventually. And then the thing about Daredevil is that he's very grounded. So it's kinda like Batman in a sense where we're watching one full arc, you know, and then when someone dies in that arc, it's pretty much done. You know?
Jagger:So we're not we don't really have that. And then on top of that, what is up with these studios just spoiling shit by just announcing who's going to be in things? What like, come the fuck on, man.
Alfredo:They they said it because they they figured that, like, he's gonna be out doing shooting and that someone's gonna take a picture and we're gonna get the confirmation, but I agree with you.
Jagger:Then just let that happen when it happens.
Alfredo:Yes. Yeah. Like, even Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio were in interviews saying, like, people are gonna be really thrown off by this very traumatic thing that happens in the show. And every single viewer was just like, well, there goes Foggy and or Karen. And that's exactly what we got in the first five minutes.
Alfredo:So it's not like not a huge complaint because I still like the scene when I saw it. But, yeah, you're you're you're right. The studios are they're doing too much preemptively.
Jagger:To circle back to something that, like, the original question about if it feels different, this feels like a comic book in the sense of when a new writer takes over a character. Like, bringing back twice at about an arc to where, yeah, it's the same. Yes. It's a continuation of a character and everything is relevant, but you definitely could feel a different style. And how they kinda clean shit up to move on is just a little bit messy like a comic book.
Jagger:It isn't really, like, thought out. Like, well, Vanessa, well, you just left and abandoned me after you got hurt. Like, what, dude? You were crashing out for three fucking seasons on it, and and then you got your ass kicked. You're like, oh, Vanessa, I'm gonna leave.
Kopf:I have to go away.
Jagger:Up. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you can make almost anything up to to fix that problem. I don't know.
Jagger:That's just like a little tiny thing on here where it's just like again, I love that it's very comic booky, but also don't love certain things about comic books, and that's why I like real books too. You know?
Kopf:Speaking speaking of the comic book feel, I did love all the different, like, hints and drops of, like, other characters in this universe that they're they're talking about, like Punisher, Spider Man, Spider Man, mention of Echo, and without being super overt. So I like those, nods to the other shows. So I I did feel like that fit very well thematically with, you know, the comic book feel because that's very much how they would do it in a in a comic book series.
Alfredo:Mhmm. Now, we're we're gonna get into more of this. I before we do that, I just wanna remind everybody, you've got a bunch of different ways you can enjoy this show, Unbinge. First, it's right here on YouTube. So if you're watching this video, take a moment to like this video, subscribe to the channel, give us a comment down below your thoughts on Daredevil Born Again, what you think might be happening, any differences to the comics, the stuff that you liked or didn't like.
Alfredo:And, we're gonna be back again every single Wednesday with our review of each episode of Daredevil Born Again. Tomorrow, we're giving you our review and discussion of Invincible season three episode seven. Saturday, we're back with Severance. And on Monday, we're back again with The White Lotus. Four shows.
Alfredo:Four shows. Doing a lot of talking, a lot of watching. And, you can always listen to us as well on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And if you are listening there, take a moment to leave a five star review. Tell us what you like about the show on Binge, and it just helps us so much.
Alfredo:We're an independent podcast. No big company here. No big crazy money. We just we just do this for you guys. Alright, guys.
Alfredo:So after the death of Foggy Nelson, we moved to one year later, and I think that the whole the whole death of Foggy Nelson doing it so early and then setting the rest of the story a year later was really an attempt to separate this as much as they could from the Netflix show. It's not just being on the new streaming service and having, potentially new characters and all that. I think they really wanted to make that separation, which is why they made that choice to kill off Foggy so early and then give us a year later. We get, Kirsten McDuffie. She's the assistant DA in the comics, and it's mentioned that she comes from the DA's office there.
Alfredo:We get kingpins. Like, he's looking spelt. He's eating healthy. He's having what was it? Like, egg whites and, and and, like, one thing of a cigar.
Kopf:Stock. Single stock.
Alfredo:So weird. The it we we start to see that tensions are building throughout the city. People miss Daredevil. They're saying that it's not really the same relationship with the cops. Karen's gone.
Alfredo:Everything. I mean, Matt's really alone. Matt's really alone. And then what we finally get is that scene that I mentioned earlier in the diner with Matt and Fisk. And I thought that this might have been the best scene of the series so far.
Alfredo:The tension for me was great. It felt very much sort of like that Heath Ledger, Joker dynamic with Batman, where he's like, you're not gonna kill me out of some sense of self righteousness, and I'm not gonna kill you because you're just too much fun. And I think that both of these characters I don't wanna say that they have a reverence or a respect for one another, but it really felt like that. And they almost kind of, like, feel like they can both survive in this ecosystem, but they're keeping a careful watch over each other. And when Fisk says it's not entirely unpleasant to see you, he's even asking, like, do you have any kids?
Alfredo:And, and then Matt's there, like, telling him, like, if you step out of line, I'll be there, and Fisk is you're going a step further. If you put on that mask again, it'll be the end of you. Like, it it was beautifully done. The tension was great. To me, that gave me so much more hype than a fight scene we got in either of these episodes.
Jagger:Yep. I mean, I I I won't say that as much as, like, the first fight I felt good about, and I appreciate the tension. If anything, that just kinda shows the second episode was a lot of I I don't wanna use the word filler, but it's kinda like a segue episode to other things where, like, nothing happened. And we're just kinda learning what is going on with Fisk and and what is the new world like seven years later. So it was fine, I guess.
Jagger:And I if I guess I just gotta say it, guys. Like, I just want I want more suit. I want more Matt in the suit. I I'm just I just feel like Daredevil, even since Netflix, he spends so much time out of the suit. And I get lawyer Matt is important, but this is another thing where I I feel like, yeah, they've promised us that they're not gonna do this, but it's more Matt like, well, do I need to be a bad person?
Jagger:I gotta I gotta, wrestle with my Catholic guilt. And I just I don't know, man. Like, I don't know if I wanna stick around with too much more of that if you're only gonna give us a taste of what we got with Bullseye. Somebody I'm gonna push back
Kopf:on that.
Alfredo:I'm gonna go back on that
Kopf:because yeah. Because to me, daredevil's always been almost like not the anti Batman but like, the other side of the coin where he doesn't want to be daredevil. He wants the day when he can put the suit away and just be lawyer Matt and have the streets run fine without him. So for for him, the struggle will always be, will I need the mask? Will I need the suit?
Kopf:So we're seeing that play out in real time in the show. And I get it. You want more action. You want him, you know, in the suit iconically, but it just makes so much sense to me for him as a character, going back to he is devoutly Catholic. He wears the devil horns because he has that guilt of I have to sin to do good.
Kopf:And, again, that character at his core is that dichotomy between the vigilante and the lawyer. He wants to be on the right side of the law, but he struggles knowing that sometimes the only answer is to put that suit on. So I get it. Like, seeing him in the suit is great, but it makes so much sense to me why he doesn't want to put it on.
Jagger:I I guess, let me let me say this. I think you're right, but that doesn't mean they need to they need to monopolize screen time doing it. You know, why why not like, there's so many shows that that this has been done before, like Soprano. Like, any gang show, the whole dichotomy thing, especially with the Catholicism. There's a whole massive sequence in The Godfather that does this.
Jagger:It's just boring that the way that they do it, and I'm sorry. It's So like, yes, you are right. Do it better.
Alfredo:I'll push back again because I do think that the way this story is setting up, obviously, with Fisk saying, if you put on the suit, like, it's meant to be very anti vigilante, and we've been going that direction since season two with Punisher and Matt, like, having all that guilt about what he's doing. And, honestly, with a lot of the things that happened in these episodes, there weren't many moments where I could be like, damn, Matt should have really been wearing the suit right now. It's like, well, you know, it's he's he's going to court. He's meeting up homegirl for a date. Like, he he he's going through things.
Alfredo:The only time I would have said is at the end of episode two, and we're gonna talk about that scene a little bit more. But even then, I thought it was more powerful him being there as the lawyer, and I think he's he's really trying to do things a different way and seeing, can New York really be better? Can this city actually be better without me having to be daredevil? Can I do it as Matt Murdock attorney? And I think it was that moment in episode two where he realizes, nah.
Alfredo:I can't. I can't. When he's when he's going through that fight
Kopf:and Fisk is mayor. Yeah. Now that
Alfredo:Yeah. The Yeah. So I I think we're gonna get the suit faster than you think. I think we're gonna get the suit faster than you think, and I think a lot of it has to do with how fast the pacing has been going on these first two episodes. We got a massive information download, a lot of change of scenes really fast.
Alfredo:I wouldn't be surprised if we have the suit again within the next episode or two.
Kopf:Because they've been hinting at it with the the broken horn. Like, he still is fiddling with the broken horn a year after Foggy's death. So Yeah. They're he's gonna be in the suit by I
Alfredo:don't think Disney's trying to mess around like that. I don't think they're trying to let us sit around just watch Matt Murdock for six episodes. This feels so different from what Netflix was doing where we got a lot of Matt Murdock without the suit. I I'm I probably shouldn't be giving them the benefit of the doubt right now, but show seeing how much they were trying to be different, I I think we are gonna get more Matt in the suit.
Jagger:See see, that's what it is. You guys are way more trusted than me. Like, I have zero reason to have faith. You know, beyond that I I love everyone involved. Like, everyone involved, like, all the actors really care about this, and I'm watching this for them.
Jagger:That that's where I'm at with it. It's like, maybe I'm just a a girl that's had their heart broken by Disney and Marvel several times, and I got three years of just Matt bitching and moaning about being like a superhero. And that's what it is, guys. It's like all the things you're saying. It's like you're you're trying to tell me why I should eat broccoli.
Jagger:Yeah, man. It's good for me. I know all that, but I don't need a whole meal of all broccoli. Like, like, give me some other shit to go with this.
Kopf:Sometimes you just want steak. I get it. I get it.
Alfredo:Yeah. Yeah. But you know what? I think that's also the same things that a lot of us would criticize Disney for is, like, this is all you do is put them in the suit, make them fight, and give us special effects, and this is such a departure. It's it almost, like, kinda feels like we get to a point with these shows where it's, like, we're not gonna be happy ever.
Alfredo:And especially after a seven year gap, there's always gonna be like, people are already, like, man, the CGI really fucking sucks. Foggy's gone. That sucks. I do get your thing about the suit because I prefer it. I'm just willing to give them a little bit more leash on this.
Jagger:And I guess it's like Batman was in the suit a lot, and we got licked to Bruce Wayne stuff in between. And, like and I guess I treat the action like John Wick, you know, to where it's not just like boom boom explosion. Oh, look explosion. It's actually
Kopf:art character.
Jagger:Yeah. It's artfully choreographed fighting that I'll just visually wanna look at, and they're telling me a story through, like, a dance that that's like a fight. Not just the usual slop and just like, oh, catchphrase. You know? Catchphrase.
Jagger:Superhero.
Alfredo:I do I do think I I do think they're hitting the nail on the head though here with Born Again, and I know that that is an actual comic story line. It's a rough one for Matt. But I I think that what we've seen here is even the brief moment we got him in Spider Man No Way Home, it's him as a lawyer. And it's seeing how he affects this universe as a lawyer and him saying, I'm a really good lawyer. And it it's still him trying to be that lawyer.
Alfredo:And eventually, we're gonna get there. We're going to get there, and that's gonna be him being effectively born again. I do think the Netflix series would have made everything drag out a lot more. Fisk would have be become mayor on the very, like, the penultimate episode. Yeah.
Alfredo:And and and he would Matt would get the suit on on the very last episode. And we'd be like, cool. We're back in the saddle. I think Marvel's gonna have to do it a little bit earlier. Mhmm.
Alfredo:Well, guys, episode two. I wanna get your thoughts on this. I so episode one very much felt like the transition episode. Episode two really felt like it's giving us a lot of setup. I actually quite enjoyed it a lot.
Alfredo:Everything from the opening inauguration speech with Fisk talking about, you know, referencing Spider Man, Daredevil, Punisher, all these different people. And then we get the introduction of Hector Ayala, White Tiger. He's the first Latino superhero in the Marvel Universe, and in Marvel Comics as well. This seems like it's going to be interesting, and I wonder, is this going to be the case that goes throughout the whole season? Or do you think it's gonna be a little bit shorter?
Alfredo:Because of the pacing and what Disney is doing, I feel like this might be a little bit quicker, and then we're gonna get a little bit more of that White Tiger in his suit doing the fighting alongside with Daredevil and what looks like also Punisher at some point.
Kopf:Well, that's what I wanted to ask you guys because kinda jumping ahead to the last scene, it almost seems like they may go the route where, Matt gets exposed as Daredevil because of what he did to these cops in this apartment. So could we see that Are they dead? That becomes the, I don't know. I could he he definitely fucked him up. I don't know if he killed him.
Alfredo:He did the he did the Ben Affleck Batman, which is ironic for Daredevil, where it's like, homie hit the ground with his neck snapping.
Kopf:Yeah.
Alfredo:If they're not dead, Disney, you have some questions you have to answer. Because how many dudes are gonna hit the floor that hard and potentially snap their neck and just keep surviving over
Kopf:and over? Human anatomy in the MCU is insane, apparently.
Alfredo:Doesn't matter.
Jagger:Throw that shit out.
Alfredo:Science is not right.
Kopf:Yeah. Right. But that's what I wanna know is are because of how that scene ended because you're right. The the whole episode too, am I okay? So the white tiger on trial is gonna be the the case of the season.
Kopf:But now with the way it ended, I'm like, I don't know. I think they may shift the focus to Matt as Daredevil. And there is a comic run where he is able to successfully sue and get his identity, like, he basically proves that he's not Daredevil and and saves his identity. So I wonder if they'll try to go that route or if they're just gonna continue the case of White Tiger. I don't know.
Alfredo:Jagger does really does not want a fucking courtroom drama. Like, he does not want them. I just I think I think they learned their lesson after trying to make She Hulk a courtroom drama.
Jagger:Yeah.
Alfredo:And realizing how that they need to stay a little bit further away from that here.
Jagger:Or just, like, lean, like, a different way with it. You know? Like and I I get it. They did a really good job with The Punisher at times with doing that. I I just I don't know, man.
Jagger:I just feel like there's an easy path to make a movie. Just do the fucking Ben Affleck movie, but do it better. Like, I'm I'm not trying to
Alfredo:be shitty. Essence. Yes.
Jagger:No. That's not what I mean. I mean, like, it's just very straightforward.
Alfredo:Yeah.
Jagger:You know, like, like, they just they're trying to do the fucking Sopranos, man. We even got doctor Melfi now. We even got doctor Melfi. Like, let's make
Alfredo:We got James Gandolfini's son in this studio.
Jagger:I know. I'm just like, this whole thing are gonna be about therapy and then the stay on topic and not to digress about what you want. I think White Tiger's gonna die because that's how White Tiger, the original actor Yeah. Like, they passed away. He gets a cute
Alfredo:He gets a cute
Jagger:yeah. He actually goes through four people before Ava
Alfredo:or they do I mean, well, also, unfortunately, in real life, the actor did just pass away recently. So, I I don't know if if that's gonna be something almost like a, you know, like like a T'Challa, Black Panther where it happens off screen. That that could potentially happen. I'm saying this, though, with White Tiger and where this goes. I think the courtroom stuff is gonna be quick.
Alfredo:And I think a lot of it, if you guys notice, the cops that Matt was fighting, one of them had a Punisher tattoo
Jagger:Yeah. On
Alfredo:his almost like a like a death eater type thing.
Kopf:Yeah.
Alfredo:And it's it's I love that commentary on real life where, I mean, even the creator of The Punisher said, like, cops should not be throwing that on their on their cars, their trucks. We're getting it as a tattoo. Like, that's not he's not a hero. He's not a man of the law. Oh, for so many fucking
Jagger:reasons. Yes.
Alfredo:But I think that this is gonna be the thing that's actually going to be the easy way to bring Punisher into this story line. And I think we're going to have Daredevil, White Tiger, Punisher all in their suits, all in the streets at some point. And maybe those two guys being out there and whatever may be coming could be the thing that gets Matt back into the Daredevil suit pretty quickly.
Kopf:Then the question that that tattoo made me, wanna ask is, do we think this is a, like, perversion of, how do I say
Alfredo:this? Yes.
Kopf:Do we think this is the cop trying to follow the punisher? Or do you think the punisher has finally gotten a little bit of a quote following and now okay. You think it's yeah.
Alfredo:I think it's I think it's I think it's the cops. The punisher. They're doing this throughout the show where they almost show you this documentary style thing where people are saying the cops aren't getting. Cops don't get no more respect. And then, like, the cops used to mean something when you saw those gold buttons.
Alfredo:And it's like yeah. I think that there are so many cops out there that are saying, you know what? Even we can't do it through the normal rigors of the law. People don't respect us anymore. You know what they will respect is punishment and and and how the punisher acted.
Alfredo:And even he had fans. Even Fisk had fans, and that's a perversion in itself that is very reminiscent of a current politician that we have there.
Jagger:Mhmm. We
Alfredo:all look. Yep. I mean, that's what I think it is. I think it is people, like you said, Koff, perfect word of it, a perversion of what the Punisher was, and it's now becoming something that I think it I think this is is this scarier than dirty cops? Cops on Fisk's payroll?
Alfredo:Is this scarier? Because these
Jagger:guys are so much more
Kopf:than hit.
Alfredo:Money can't control them.
Jagger:This is Watchmen, guys. This is Watchmen. Like like like the the % what you're saying here. That that's like what I was saying now. I was like like, they are doing and and this is art imitating life and vice versa.
Jagger:We and I'll say this as men. We are really bad at looking at people that should be cautionary tales that we should feel sorry for and then idolizing them.
Kopf:Not celebrating.
Jagger:And then turning them into something else. And that's what the cops have done. They're like, well, Frank Castle was a decorated man who protected this country, and then he decided that that the the the real methods aren't good enough. So we're gonna take things in our hands. And then you you're are technically a crazy person and then once you get the copycats who may not be as principled as you are, it's it's like you said the perversion, man.
Jagger:It's making copies of a copy where you get like distorted on there and now we've got, like, Matt, like you said, the Rorschachs on there. Rorschach is a crazy fucking racist.
Kopf:Psychopath.
Jagger:It is psychopath. Legitimate psychopath. And then if you don't know who he is and just saw the headlines and read his giant manifesto, you could think, wow. I should do that, and that's what's happened. And that's terrifying.
Jagger:See, that's what I want focused on. What you're saying, like, this shit here, yes. All of that. Like, I want that to be the central plotline. Maybe use the white
Alfredo:tiger stone.
Jagger:Yeah. Right. And the white tiger is, like, the different side of it of, like, you know, he's a vigilante who's trying to help and put in a bad situation. The punisher always goes too far, and then you got these assholes, the usuals, the usual suspects, which are ironically the
Alfredo:police. Yeah. White Tiger, I think, is gonna be a very interesting character to follow throughout this. I'm gonna be curious to see how they deal with the amulet because he did reference it. He's he's said I wasn't in my suit.
Alfredo:I didn't even have my amulet on it.
Kopf:We saw it in the box when when Cherry finds the suit.
Alfredo:So I know. I'm I'm gonna be curious to see how it looks and, like, what it's going to do to him because there are different levels of this amulet where he can become almost feral and and actually become a legitimate white fucking tiger. Like, it can get crazy. But I'm curious because this show hasn't really had to do anything. Daredevil hasn't had to do anything to that level magical.
Alfredo:And I remember, like, when I was watching Arrow the first few seasons, I was like, this is this is cool. This is cool. And then we got to, like, the Damien Dark stuff where it got, like, too much magic, and I was like, I'm out. That's that's when I'm out. And so I am a little bit worried.
Alfredo:We're going into the MCU where magic exists. I hope they can do it well because that would really suck to introduce this character and just make it kind of ass to be honest.
Jagger:Just make it straightforward. Kinda like Moon Knight a little bit on here. We're just like, hey, I put this on and I kick ass. Like, I don't I don't need you to get really weird about it. It's just like like Just
Kopf:have, like, a faint green glow around him. Yeah. Just have a faint green glow around him when he's fighting.
Alfredo:He wants a
Kopf:glow. He's got powers.
Jagger:Yep. Yep. I'm just saying
Alfredo:I don't want the glow. Just a little bit. I want, like, a quick, like, little, like, green thing in his eyes and that's it. Like, he just goes back to normal. We get the okay.
Alfredo:That's the representation. You know, like, when Black Panther has, like, the little purple, the purple wave that comes over every time he gets hit with the kinetic energy. Give me one of those just in a quick green. Boom. It's gone.
Alfredo:We're in. We're fine.
Jagger:Like, once you know I got that ice crowd my neck, it's game on, bro. Like, that's that's all I need.
Alfredo:White tiger, someone's gonna snatch a chain, man. So, one of the things why I think that we're gonna get some cool stuff that's a lot of it is gonna have to do with the police, and and I think this ties in really well to Punisher, is Fisk with the police commissioner. And for all those episodes and seasons where Fisk had the police on his payroll, even when he was in prison, he was treated like a king, like the kingpin. Now he's got a police commissioner that disagrees with him, and I thought that one scene where he's talking to him about Philadelphia and the cheesesteaks. And after the whole thing, he's like, the sandwich was disgusting.
Alfredo:But they they do the what Vague always talks about our fourth host on here, where he says, show, don't tell. And all you had to do is just sort of, like, grab a sandwich and you will see the picture. They didn't have to do any other exposition. It was just that, hey. Kingpin has leverage on the commissioner now, and he's gonna do whatever the fuck he wants.
Alfredo:And that was all we needed. And I think that's gonna be a really interesting dynamic with a commissioner that is being forced to do stuff for Fisk and a bunch of officers who are willing to play outside of the law and not really be controlled because they think they are little, you know, mini punishers in a way. I think that's gonna be really interesting to watch.
Jagger:Mhmm. And it's I really wish they would do.
Kopf:Kind of commentary on real life with, you know, there may be directors who do not agree with federal orders and but the workers may. And so will we see that play out in real life in a similar way? So I think that was smart commentary.
Jagger:Yeah. And and I think you kinda, like, proven my point. It's like, I wish they kinda lean into making this like the wire in the sense to where, like, you were getting the criminal underworld all the way up to the mayor's. Like like, everything slowly with New York. But instead of, like, cops, it's through the eyes of, like, Daredevil, White Tiger, The Punisher.
Jagger:Like like, lean into that a little bit more. And and they kinda do. And I think it's just the problem is, like, we got three seasons and they were all, like, 12 episodes long. Like, I'm talking about Law and Order seasons. We're like, holy fuck.
Jagger:How many episodes? You know?
Alfredo:I think this is gonna be a little more of the political thriller. And I think that's I think that's gonna be a welcomed change for people who got so used to that, you know, courtroom drama. This it's gonna be a little bit different, and I do like that, that dynamic here with Fisk. But one character who we get introduced to here in the series is doctor Heather Glenn, who another character that is playing a love interest of Matt, which, by the way, Matt Murdock. He gets around.
Alfredo:Game. He does fuck.
Jagger:He's like Batman. Like, Matt Damon Fox Smith or Matt Damon. Matt Murdock does
Alfredo:a fucking slip. I was like, I guess Matt Damon fucks too. I really don't know.
Jagger:I'd hope. I'd hope.
Alfredo:I was like, Jagger really knows something about Matt Damon. He seems like
Jagger:a nice guy.
Alfredo:But yeah. I mean so, like, Matt Murdock, he's dating Heather Glenn now. But we also see, like, for those who who maybe missed it or didn't think anything of it, there's the scene with doctor Heather Glenn's book where she's doing I guess, it's a book signing and, it's her book Living Without Fear, which is honestly, I think it's a great callback to the what what Daredevil's always referenced to in the comics. It's the man without fear.
Jagger:Yep.
Alfredo:Yeah. And how she talks about how this, you know, it's removing your mask is is how you live without your fear. And obviously, it's meant to be representative of Matt, you know, without his daredevil mask now.
Kopf:Also foreshadowing if also foreshadowing if they go the route of daredevil gets exposed to his identity, he has to then learn how to be Matt Murdock while everyone knows he's daredevil. I could see that being a problem.
Alfredo:Gonna do that. I don't think they're gonna do that because they just did it with Peter Parker, and it was such a mess to undo that. Like, I'd I'd really hope that they don't. I really hope that they don't.
Kopf:I'm calling my shot right now. I'm just saying. Alright. If they go that route.
Jagger:Daredevil's get to those Maybe not. Daredevil and x men are one of those things where it's just like, man, I want pizza. It's like, cool, man. I I gave you this crustless pizza. It's like, no.
Jagger:I want fucking pizza. Like, well, here's a deconstructed pasta. It's like, I want fucking pizza. And then they're like, well, here's something with pine apples.
Alfredo:Gluten free calzone.
Jagger:Yes, dude. It's just like,
Kopf:no. The calzones have betrayed me.
Jagger:Exactly. It's just like it it's cool. That's a cool story. I'm sure that's good, but give me the fucking pizza first. Yeah.
Jagger:Bro, put
Kopf:the fries in the bag, bro.
Alfredo:Yeah. Yeah. Honestly. Put the daredevil in the bag. Let's just do it.
Jagger:But
Alfredo:one of the characters that I'm really excited to see, which we obviously haven't we've we've seen this character without their mask or their suit and its muse. And that was the young man that went if by the way, if if people aren't
Kopf:To the book signing.
Jagger:That's the
Alfredo:young man that went to the book signing, talked to doctor Glenn, and says, yeah, I I really need to speak with you. And, I can't remember the actor's name, but he also played the villain in Wednesday. Spoiler alerts. So He's
Jagger:from Arkansas in my hometown, actually.
Alfredo:Oh. That's right. That's unfortunate.
Jagger:Very uninteresting.
Alfredo:I I didn't know anyone else lived in Arkansas. Alright. I'm gonna be really excited to see that because we are gonna get we're really just getting a cavalcade of characters. We're getting so many of these from muse to Punisher, White Tiger, Daredevil. It almost seems like they kind of had to remove Foggy and Karen from this story so they could stop making it a courtroom drama and introduce all these new care the new love interests, the new characters that are going to be the heroes on the street, and how each of these will still connect Matt Murdock to Wilson Fisk.
Alfredo:And as of right now, I think it's set up for success, guys. I don't know about you.
Kopf:I'm excited. I'm cautiously Yeah. I'm I'm optimistic. Alright. I'm all onboarded.
Alfredo:I'll take it. The what, man? The the episode that we get Jagger on here and he's just fucking excited, we did we did our job.
Jagger:You know, guys, I know it's I'm always slow to please. I come around, but, like, those first two episodes, I'm like, just give me a little bit more.
Kopf:The ending of it is just got me higher.
Alfredo:Cuffs usually are a guy that, like, this is a 12 out of 10.
Jagger:We're we're good. Like like like like, he's he's either Cuff. He's he's
Kopf:a two or a 12. Yeah.
Jagger:Yeah. Like like, dude, he's like, fuck this show. Nothing's ever gonna make me love it. Then Agatha, he's like, this is the best thing since Game of Thrones.
Alfredo:Guys, anything on this on these first two episodes that you wanna hit on before we finish up here?
Jagger:Doctor Melfi.
Kopf:I, How are
Jagger:they gonna go with that? It. That's not her name. I'm I'm referencing The Sopranos, guys. I'm just curious to what Fisk relationship is because, like, his central purpose and driving thing as a character that's even humanizing is his love for Vanessa.
Jagger:So I'm I'm I'm like, him trying to be the good man, I'm more interested in that than Matt trying to be the good man and how that's gonna work out.
Alfredo:So I I I that I'm so glad you said that, Jagger, because and I hate that we did this at the end. I wish we would've done this at the beginning instead of talking about Foggy. I think that that conversation in the diner is the microcosm of this whole season, where it's gonna be two men trying to play nice in New York and keep their distance, and they simply fucking can't because New York won't let them. And I think
Jagger:let each other. Let's just say that.
Alfredo:That's the other thing too. Yeah. That's the other thing. I have a feeling it's gonna be this. One, I think by the end of this season, Wilson Fisk will no longer be the mayor of New York.
Alfredo:Two, I think Vanessa does not make it out of this season. And it I mean, so much of Wilson talking about in his therapy session that he just simply doesn't wanna lose his wife, and that's why he's there. It's like, could you ever imagine Kingpin at fucking therapy? Like, to me, that is the biggest like, that that shows that this guy is willing to do whatever it takes for Vanessa and that what you said, Jagger, is that she humanizes him. Without him, he can finally become that dehumanized Kingpin villain that we probably want and need for the MCU.
Alfredo:And for Matt to fully become Daredevil, he loses Foggy. He's probably losing Karen. There's going to be a lot going on this season.
Jagger:Humanity because they're his their his compass to to quote, like, the kind of the bull's eye thing, their North Star. Really, if you think about it, we always talk about simp supreme's and that like, it's really kingpin as simp supreme. If you really think about it, dude, that like, he he he loves a woman, and he will make it everybody's fucking problem. We need to
Kopf:we need
Alfredo:to have a bracket for March. March madness of the simp supremes, and we're gonna get all guy talk from White Lotus. We're gonna get all these guys in there. We're doing
Kopf:it. Yeah. Oz with the We're doing it.
Jagger:That's a mom simp. I I don't want that shit on that list. Nope. You don't deserve it.
Alfredo:Keep it out here.
Kopf:But speaking of your prediction of Vanessa not making it, do you think it's by Fisk's hand? Do you think he's gonna be the one to kill her because you you don't think he's gonna be like, if I can't have her, nobody can because she's already got
Alfredo:a number
Kopf:on the side.
Alfredo:I think it's going to be something that does happen inadvertently because of him, sort of adjacent.
Jagger:Yeah.
Alfredo:And it's gonna be one of those things that he won't blame himself. He's going to blame others and then eventually live with that guilt or blame their Spider Verse
Jagger:kind of.
Alfredo:Yeah. Very much like the Collider thing from Into the Spider Verse. Yeah. %. But I do think, guys, after these first two episodes, I think Marvel is setting up a good show for us.
Alfredo:And I'm I'm excited. Is Marvel back? Are we there?
Kopf:We're back for now. We're back for now.
Alfredo:Back for now is good.
Jagger:Let's let's I've texted Marvel who all over there. Let's put it down. What's the
Kopf:what's the ratio? What's the
Jagger:ratio? Exactly. Perfect way.
Kopf:Six to one. Wait. Which way?
Alfredo:The perfect way to end. We're gonna be back again next Wednesday to discuss episode three of daredevil born again. Tomorrow, we're talking about invincible season three episode seven. Saturday, we're talking about severance season two episode eight. We're almost done with that one, guys, and White Lotus is just heating up.
Alfredo:We're gonna be talking about that next Monday. So four shows every week for the next couple weeks here at least over here on Unbinged. And, as always, I wanna thank you guys for watching or listening all the way through, for myself, for Jagger, for Cough. We'll see you next time. Adios.
