Today, we're reviewing and explaining the ending for Daredevil Born Again episode three. Man, that ending with white tiger just left us all with so much to think about for next week. I can't even say the words right now because we're just like, what the hell just happened? How's Punisher going to work into all of this? The symbols, the tattoos are everywhere.
Alfredo:What's going to come of that? And then Matt Murdock, y'all, the crash out is reaching dangerous levels here. He's just getting ridiculous with everything he's doing. We're gonna talk about all that and more on an all new episode of Unbinged starting now.
Jagger:This is a review podcast of the show Daredevil. We will spoil it, so good luck.
Alfredo:Guys, I thought this was a great episode. I thought it was a great episode. It felt like a return to form for Daredevil. I enjoyed the first two, but this one felt a lot more like it hit the normal pacing that we're used to from the Netflix version of this show. We got sort of a courtroom drama, which I know we have said in the past we didn't want.
Alfredo:Right? We didn't want that, especially with Daredevil. And I know that there's the complaints. He's not in the suit. He's not out fighting, and we're we're getting a political drama and a courtroom drama.
Alfredo:The pacing on this one felt right. It felt like an episode to me of Law and Order SVU, especially with that ending where White Tiger is killed. It felt very me and my wife, we call it getting dick wolfed because, like, there's always that ending at the end of SVU.
Kopfhamer:Executive producer. Yes. Dick wolf wolf. That's good.
Alfredo:Where Where it's like you find out it was the dad all along, and then it just Yeah. Black screen executive producer.
Jagger:Yeah. That that depressing every time. Yeah.
Alfredo:Yes. That's yes. And that's how this one felt. I thought it was good. I think it it kept us on the hook for another episode.
Alfredo:And to me, like, it has been perfect. No. But I think that this show is doing its job in keeping us intrigued. I think it's still setting up story. I will say the pacing seems to be going in all different directions.
Alfredo:First, it was really fast in the for the first two episodes, then it slowed down here. And then I don't love that we only got a two episode arc from White Tiger. Koff, what'd you think about this one?
Kopfhamer:Oh, I like the episode. Like you said, it felt very reminiscent of a very good episode of SVU or Criminal Intent. I actually when it got to the verdict part, I actually turned the subtitles off because I'm an old man and watch with subtitles.
Alfredo:Same. I covered I covered it with my hand.
Kopfhamer:I didn't wanna be revealed, like, before they read it out because I didn't know how they they were gonna do this because both, you know, Matt Murdock and Hochberg's, argument, closing arguments were compelling. So I think that's what we do.
Jagger:Hochberg closed it off. He he,
Kopfhamer:you know, he hit for the emotional He just
Alfredo:wanted to leave reasonable doubt.
Kopfhamer:Dead. Yeah. Oh, and he's doing his job. Yeah. Exactly.
Kopfhamer:But what I think Daredevil does spectacular is, a, fight scenes, and then, b, really make believable courtroom scenes that it's a guess. I could see this happening in real life, especially when Matt pulled the the reveal out of the bag where it's like, this is White Tiger. And it's like, okay. We we finally got our Mac from It's Always Sunny's, like, big bombshell reveal for the Yeah. But I love the episode.
Kopfhamer:Yeah. Like I said, sad that they killed Hector off so so fast, but I think that opens up room for the white tiger mantle be to be taken up by somebody new because they left the body with the amulet on the street. So
Alfredo:Oh, did they? Did they leave the amulet?
Kopfhamer:Yeah. He popped him in the head and then walked away. So the amulet's still on the body. We clearly see him suit up, put the amulet on, put the mask on, go out, and then the body still Where
Alfredo:are we at with where are we at with people understanding the amulet, though? Because wasn't it brought up in court because the amulet gives him power and strength?
Kopfhamer:Yeah.
Jagger:So, like,
Alfredo:we basically have a magical amulet out here that gives you speech strength and and everything, and it's just hanging out there.
Kopfhamer:Yeah. It's loose on the streets.
Jagger:To be honest, I think that's the shit riding. I think it's shit writing to me in in my opinion. But, like, that's
Alfredo:If it doesn't end up in the wrong hands, I think it's shit writing. I think there needs to be a consequence for that. That's been my biggest critique of the show so far. I think it's been good. We haven't had real consequences for anything yet.
Alfredo:We haven't had a consequence for Matt Murdock. We haven't had a consequence for anyone. This is the first time we saw a consequence, and that just one consequence begets more. No consequences. Like, I don't know.
Alfredo:It just it it seems like the it's a little yeah. That loose ending is tied up. Jack, I I know you have Exactly. I know you have your thoughts about this episode.
Jagger:Y'all gonna make me sound like an asshole because I didn't know you guys were that positive on on this episode because, like, some of the work like, what are we doing? You're like, it felt like an s for you episode. Like, cool. It felt like a a a next day on Peacock episode of television. That's what we signed up for when we when we when we want prestige television at a daredevil.
Jagger:But I I will say hate aside, I do like those episodes as for you, so I will be a complete hater. I'll give respect to
Kopfhamer:where it's due. I'll give respect to where it's due. Okay. Come on. This was a Stabler episode.
Kopfhamer:You know what I'm talking about.
Jagger:I know yeah. A Stabler crash out episode. Exactly. I know exactly what the fuck you're talking about. Like, you've been punching a wall by now or some shit like that.
Jagger:But I just I I it's the pacing thing, and I have zero faith, guys. I let's put it this way. If this is an Apple Flash
Alfredo:before the show came out, though. Like, you you I think you were lowest out of all of us in the height meter. Like, I it it's not it's not like this changed your opinion more, did it?
Jagger:No. The and that's the correct
Kopfhamer:three episodes but after three episodes, do you see do you think there's any hope, or you you out? Like, you think it's gonna be trashed?
Jagger:Right. No. I'm not intrigued at all. I literally said last episode, like, Hector's gonna die, like, really fast. And they did it even faster.
Jagger:And, like, now I already know what they're going to do. We're obviously they're trying to frame the Punisher because Wilson Fisk wants to get control of every vigilante around. So he's gonna use this to neutralize Punisher. This is probably gonna spring up Matt Murdock's head. He's gonna try to cut it off.
Jagger:Right now, this is just not a compelling story whatsoever. The pacing's pretty bad. If you wanted to do the daredevil born again story and do the foggy storyline to I didn't feel like you killed foggy, you set up something and then you detract it for an entire thirty five minutes with what feels like filler, you should this should have been the first episode where Matt didn't even have the suit on. This we don't even care about She Hulk. We'll just move past it.
Jagger:Matt doesn't have the suit on. He has no interest in making a comeback. And then at the end of this episode, that's episode one, they kill Hector. Now you have a mystery. Someone's killing Maz to quote Warshack or something like that.
Jagger:And then he's thinking about busting out the shoe. Then Foggy dies. Now you have a mad, mad Matt Murdock. And then you could do all the shit that leads to fist then. To me, they had a way easier story and it just feels like a mess, guys.
Jagger:And if this was Apple Plus right now, I would be more patient. But every it is a stink around Disney Plus. It is a stink around this app. And it is muddling my opinion of Daredevil, and I'm okay to admit that.
Alfredo:Yeah. I was gonna say that. I think I think there's a little bit I'm I'm proud of you, though. That's growth. That's growth.
Alfredo:I like a man who's self aware. Mhmm. But if I don't
Jagger:know, like, because that's the thing.
Alfredo:I think to a degree, you're right on certain things. I would say this is still compelling. I would say this is still compelling, and I think this is right where a lot of the other daredevil seasons were three episodes in. Like, even the season with the punisher, we really didn't have any like, all we were doing was getting shots of him shooting people, but nothing about the punisher or why he was there or where this was going. It wasn't all that compelling then.
Alfredo:We were just watching gangs get shot up. The first three episodes of season one of Daredevil was just homie getting the shit kicked out of him in a black suit, and we didn't really know much about him. It just I think we're we're judging a little too harshly too early because of the lore that we have. And I think that Netflix Daredevil, as good as it was, I think it's so hard because this show is now in a can't win scenario. You have to be as good as what we remember, and nothing is ever as good as we remember.
Alfredo:It's it's just like, the college football video game that was gone for seven years or eight years or more, maybe ten years, Matt. I don't I don't remember. It might have been more.
Jagger:Let's just say a long fucking time. Yeah.
Alfredo:It was like ten or twelve years.
Kopfhamer:Time.
Alfredo:Yeah. Yeah. Long fucking time. And everyone romanticizes how good that game was because it was. It was a great game.
Alfredo:If you're into college football, it's a lot of fun. The new one comes out, and immediately people are shitting on it because it's not as good as the old one. Guys, the old one was out on, like, PlayStation three. Like, this was a very different time. Sure.
Alfredo:And then the previous Daredevil, good show, but it was also the best around a bunch of shit TV at the time that was on Netflix. And so now I think what you're right about, Jagger, is that there is a stink around the Disney plus app. There's a stink around Marvel. There's a stink around the show a little bit because we know too much at this point. We know that they've done reshoots.
Alfredo:We know that everything Marvel is doing hinges on these projects and that this show has to somehow connect to a greater Marvel Cinematic Universe. And that it almost feels like no matter what we do or how good the show is, we're gonna be disappointed at the end. And I'm I'm really hoping that's not the case.
Kopfhamer:Here's the thing. Let's let's be honest. Disney's track record is spotty at best. I mean, of the closing
Jagger:release say, like, what have you done for me lately? The last two years has been dog shit. It's terrible.
Kopfhamer:Loki Loki, WandaVision, Agatha, I think are their best finishes, and then everything else is either before COVID
Jagger:or right as COVID happened. That was, like, what was
Kopfhamer:last year? Recent. Agatha.
Jagger:Oh, Agatha. You're right.
Alfredo:Agatha was last year, and then Loki was two years ago. We're not sure.
Kopfhamer:Far. I Loki was last year too. Loki
Alfredo:X Men 97.
Jagger:Okay. But the okay. I'm just saying with these larger IPs because, like, X Men 97 is contained. So I don't even I'm not even counting that. I won't I won't count that on there.
Jagger:But, like because
Alfredo:I I almost think these these should be judged accordingly because this is the same thing. It's bringing back a show that was contained in its own story, and now it's being forced into a greater Marvel universe, which kinda feels like that's what happened with X Men 97 a little bit. Like, we're supposed to understand that these characters and storylines might leak over into that.
Jagger:Well, I mean, they're in another unit. Like, we know how multiverses work. So let's say, like, you know, they're adjacent. But, like, bro, if you want me to start comparing how X Men 97 did and then how daredevil's doing, it's just gonna make it worse. Like, like and and and here's my argument here.
Jagger:The things that you're saying it's doing that is like the Netflix show were the things that they promised me that they were going to fix. You're like, we're we're not gonna focus on what it means to be a hero. We're not gonna focus on this. We're gonna have better pacing. And then what have we gotten in three episodes?
Jagger:And we already know it's gonna be a shorter season. And, I'll drop my there. And let They
Alfredo:made I'll let you guys find that. This they made this story arc where they are posturing about, doing the right thing and what it meant to be a hero. They made it much shorter. You know that this is something that the Netflix series would have made into a four or five episode arc. The Frank Castle trial alone was much longer.
Alfredo:All of that just continued on and on and on where we're going over the moral dilemmas and the ethics and Matt's internal struggle. And I think that's just always going to be something that we're going to get with Daredevil. I think that's the bigger problem here is that the character himself is probably maxed out. He's probably at his his limit as to how much we truly care about Daredevil because how many seasons can we keep having the moral dilemma of I don't kill, I don't kill. And that leads me to where I'm at right now where even though I I like the show and I like what's happening, I am compelled.
Alfredo:I don't like that there are no consequences for what's happening with Matt Murdock. He pushes Bullseye off the building. Homie doesn't die. And then now Matt's like, ah, man. I really crossed the line.
Alfredo:And then in the second episode, he beats the ever loving shit out of those two cops, and we're both
Jagger:saying coming.
Alfredo:I I know, but we're sitting there saying, like, I think they're
Kopfhamer:In defense.
Alfredo:The way that
Kopfhamer:But in defense of that scene, though, it's one of those situations where it's like he beat the shit out of them, and what are they gonna do? Tell somebody about it? Like, they can't say anything either.
Jagger:No. And that's what I'm saying.
Alfredo:That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying is that Matt Murdock is out here willingly trying to kill people, and it's just not happening. And he's not getting any consequences for his character. I think the crash out of Matt Murdock and him actually killing people would become much more compelling than him towing the line and trying to do it and just literally failing each and every time.
Alfredo:Because now what we have to do is care about Matt Murdock the lawyer, and this episode tried to do that. I don't know how much longer I can do that where I truly care about Matt Murdock the lawyer. I wanna see Matt Murdock daredevil going out there and dealing with his shit.
Kopfhamer:And and I and I guess we're at We're gonna get that with the death of white tiger. Like, he that's gonna be the thing that's gonna make him step out of the shadows.
Alfredo:I I agree. I
Kopfhamer:mean, what else what else could it be? Right?
Jagger:And that's why I said maybe just rearrange some of these episodes to where it doesn't feel like like like, come on, man. Like, I'm I'm just being I'm being teased at this point and fucked around. Like, that that's what I feel like with Disney at this point and with MCU, you know, like, that's why I say I have no faith. Like, they can't even get it give me episode to episode. I feel like keeping me locked in, do I have, I guess, trust issues with that.
Jagger:But to, I guess, to finish this point here is I feel like we are in the same spot we were with Spider Man and a little bit with Batman where we're in this loop where, like, we had to watch uncle Ben die over and over and over again. I'm like, can we just get another plot line for it? So this whole struggle with Matt Murdock, I understand that's essential part of the character. But come on. We have a continuation of the show.
Jagger:So give me something else than the same tired bullshit. I told you guys in the group chat, and I'm sure statistically some of you guys will get this. It's getting the fucking robot, Shinji. Get in the robot and fight, dude. I'm tired of this shit and watching this teenager cry because that's what it feels like.
Alfredo:Do you wanna give a little more context to that? Because I got no fucking idea what you're talking about.
Jagger:I even sent you a text message with it.
Alfredo:I don't read your text.
Jagger:Oh my god. Alright, guys. In in Neon Genesis Evangelion, literal angels are coming down. Like, Kaiju sized angels are coming down, and they've there's mankind fighting them in robots and Gundams. And, like, the quote unquote chosen one is no.
Jagger:Pacific Rim stole that from Evangelion. Don't start this shit with me, Matt. Don't play.
Kopfhamer:Don't start this shit. Yeah. Just stare at that pot, bro. Just stare at that pot.
Jagger:So there's 24 episodes in this series of maybe give or take some. It's like 10 of them are Shinji crying. He's like, I don't wanna do this because I'm scared and I just wanna play. Like, it's fucking grueling, dude. Get in the robot.
Jagger:I'm here to watch robots fight. Is that what you want?
Alfredo:You want you want essentially the daredevil robot fight? Like, you like, get in your suit, and let's get some daredevil action?
Jagger:Yes. Like, do do daredevil retcon or recon. You know? Like, go in there and do some addictive shit.
Alfredo:He he did that. He did that in the second episode.
Jagger:Not really though. It was Matt Murdock pussyfooting around and, like, well, I got I guess I gotta do some daredevil stuff, but I can't go off my nerves. We've already gotten it. We've already gotten it. I've already gotten my veggies.
Jagger:I've gotten fucking three years of veggies, and then I had to wait seven, And then you're still giving me more veggies.
Alfredo:It's I think that the so this is important. The Matt Murdock daredevil is needed when there's a villain that matches his freak, if you get what I'm saying. There isn't that right now. Right now, the villain is the police and mayor Fisk.
Jagger:And that's real life, man. I already got the police in my real life mail
Kopfhamer:to where he found us.
Alfredo:But then but then so then the problem here is not necessarily with Matt Murdock. The problem here is that we're you don't like you don't like the villain of this season because the villain is essentially the system. And when there's not a face to the villain, then, you know, like, I get that, and I actually get I do.
Kopfhamer:Which I think that's a good point. You're right. Alfredo. Yeah. I think that's a good point that the the villain right now is the system, which how do you fight against that as a vigilante?
Kopfhamer:And I think, hopefully, what they're gonna do with the death of white tiger and the amulet being available for anybody to pick up seemingly, maybe we will get, like, a deranged white tiger that Matt then has to don the suit to essentially put down and stop, like, a menace on the streets. So maybe that's the angle they're going for.
Alfredo:See, I would say this. I don't Jack, you mentioned earlier that you think that they're setting up Punisher as someone who killed White Tiger? Yes. I'd I'd I don't know because why not do the thing where you just you kill him, you take the suit, you take the amulet.
Kopfhamer:And then yeah.
Alfredo:Take take up the mantle. Do a bunch of shit.
Kopfhamer:Bullseye. Yeah. Like season three.
Jagger:So you're I mean, let's put it this way. Punisher's either being set up directly or indirectly. Let's put it this way. Like, Frank Castle is one of the most principled people. I'd say most superheroes are pretty principled.
Jagger:Marvel does a better job at having some gray areas. But for Marvel, Frank Castle is very principled on there. There is no way he's gonna kill Hector unless it's for No. Unless it's for some reason that we don't know
Alfredo:We're all in agreement. Right? That that wasn't actually Frank. That's someone else in a No. That's a
Kopfhamer:cop. That's what's cop in a publisher suit. Yeah.
Jagger:Yeah. That's what I'm saying. And they're gonna spin it as he killed the cop killer because justice didn't
Kopfhamer:work. Now do you think Fisk is behind them, or do you think he'll just use them as as an opportunity later on? Or Vanessa see this organization. Oh, I didn't think about Vanessa. Maybe she's the one Yeah.
Kopfhamer:That organized this. Okay. Interesting.
Jagger:Because right right now, Vanessa is just just little finger shit. Yeah. Like, little finger shit and just, like, she still wants to be like, right now, she's that person. Yeah. And, like like, I know, like, not even seen The Wire, but, like, it The Wire ends with someone.
Jagger:Like, a criminal's finally made it to be legit, and he can't fucking handle it. So he he leaves, like, a ritzy party and then goes down and then bullies some fucking street kids for a corner to start all over. Like, that's kinda where where I feel like Vanessa is. She likes the game. She don't wanna quit the game.
Jagger:She don't wanna do this mayor politician bullshit, so she's gonna keep stirring the pot. So, like, I even think it's her over Fisk because Fisk is just trying to be mayor and be married. He's trying to be a family man.
Alfredo:Is he though?
Kopfhamer:When he Yeah.
Jagger:He's the the
Alfredo:way he talked to the the police chief and he shows the picture of the kid and all that, like, it seems like he's just he's trying to be a politician. He's just still trying to be dirty. It's just a different way. I think it's just the way that maybe makes him feel better.
Kopfhamer:Now one thing in this episode that he he said to Vanessa was what was it? I'm aiming for something higher. I'm working for something higher. Do you think that was he's trying to be president one day? Yes.
Kopfhamer:He wants to be the president of The United States and get that kind
Jagger:of control of power? Okay.
Alfredo:Yeah.
Jagger:That is that is always That's that's how I read that. Okay. Yeah. Like Yeah. Like like yeah.
Jagger:Like, that that's not without a question that Fisk wants to be president. You know?
Alfredo:So I think the the thing I don't like and like I said, there's plenty I do like. The thing I don't like is when art tries to imitate life too much and they hit they they they do it a little ham fisted. They do it a little too close to home. And I get that a lot of these things can be comic storylines and this mayor Fisk is a real thing, But this is the same thing that the boys suffered from where they reference the real world and become too meta far too often. And I'm going to my content on my TV so that I can escape all of the other bullshit out in the real world, and I don't need that to be the plot device in Daredevil.
Alfredo:And you can look at this from whatever color glasses you want. I don't think anyone watching this doesn't see Fisk as a certain presidential candidate out there and how it's it's really bleeding over into everything. And the Punisher logo, how it's been used by abusive cops and become a logo for, for, unfortunately, people in positions of power to abuse that power. Now I I get it. You can probably make a compelling story with that.
Alfredo:I don't know that I want that. And I think those are my main gripes, but I think they're doing good with the ingredients that they have. I just don't know if necessarily this is the meal I wanna eat, if that makes sense.
Jagger:To to back you up, it's to take it a step further, it's we're we're tired of it at this point, and other other stories, shows, movies are kind of already doing a better job. And moreover, it's not even that it's doing a bad job. It's like it's it's been done. Like, this has been remixed for, like we're going on the last ten years where we've kind of been in this cycle where we're talking about politics so strongly in our media. And it's like you said, no matter what you believe in, it's just a little bit tired, and we can talk about other things now for a little bit.
Jagger:You know?
Alfredo:Yeah. I I I think I go for a cough. Yeah. Oh, I
Kopfhamer:was just it's it's almost unfair for a show now to try this kind of storyline, especially when you have the the watchmen that came out a few years ago that just fucking nailed it. So it's hard when you have that peak and everything else feels a a pale imitation of it. So, yeah, it would be nice to have a slightly different storyline. I don't know. I'm not sure.
Kopfhamer:It it
Jagger:the There's just other daredevil stories, man.
Kopfhamer:That's a
Jagger:like I said, like like, there's just other daredevil stories that they can use that are really good. I mean, we've barely gotten the man without fear, you know, kind of, like like, story arc, the original, like, Frank Miller. You know? So, like, there's things that they can do, and they they're just trying to I don't know, man. It's just it's like you said.
Jagger:They're just trying to be everything else and be relevant and follow too many trends, and and we're just I'm really tired. We're just tired.
Kopfhamer:I
Alfredo:think it's more of a Marvel problem at this point than it is even a Daredevil problem because it feels like
Jagger:all the
Alfredo:all the storylines have been played out. Like, we've gotten the same version of these stories for different characters. You can't even do the thing where
Jagger:Like, now. You know?
Alfredo:Yep. Yep. I I was like, I was thinking of it. It's like you can't even do the storyline where Matt Murdock's identity gets revealed because it's like, well, we did that in Spider Man. We can't run that back.
Alfredo:And it's like, you can't really do the whole political thriller thing where, you know, you're being meta. The boys and other places have done that, and we kinda got that now a little bit with Captain America Brave New World. Spoilers for anyone. I just I think what they need to do is give us more Matt Murdock in the daredevil suit. Give us I actually want I want the Matt Murdock crash out.
Alfredo:Like, I want him at the absolute end of his rope, not being, you know, depressed in a church in in a Catholic church. I want him out there. Yes. I want him fist bloody, and we've seen it in the promo, so maybe we get there. I think the show still has that ability to get there.
Alfredo:I want him actually killing people and have the crash out. I hate this tease. I hate that the show keeps edging us like this because, fuck, I go back to episode two. That ending, those are deaths. That is attempted murder.
Kopfhamer:Dead. Yeah. They look dead. But meanwhile He
Alfredo:has three attempted murders and no consequences of it. Like, it's just it's absolutely insane. And what's the timeline? Do these guys go back to court the very next day after they're shooting? Zero shot.
Jagger:Yeah. He's in that bet he's in that bat flick, era where he's just like, you know, I won't kill you, but these hospital bills will. Yeah.
Kopfhamer:The real enemy is health care in America.
Alfredo:The system. Alright, guys. We're gonna keep going on here. But before we do, I just wanna remind you, you got a bunch of ways you can enjoy Unbinge. Our podcast is here on YouTube.
Alfredo:So if you're watching this video right now, take a moment to give us a like. Comment down below with your thoughts on the Daredevil show so far. And, you know, guys, make sure you're subscribed because we've got not just Daredevil, but we're talking about Invincible season three. We got the finale coming up, Severance season two, White Lotus season three, and we've got so many more other shows and movies coming along. I know we're gonna be talking about The Last of Us.
Alfredo:We've got big Superman blockbuster this summer along with Fantastic four. There's so many big things coming our way. And of course, if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, take a moment to leave a five star review for us. It's a big help. Podcast is growing.
Alfredo:It's been great to see or an independent brand, no big company backing or financing. This is all just from you guys, and we make the show for you guys. So we thank you for that. Now, gents, this, I think, may be the most compelling storyline, and I wanna ask you guys because I think the most compelling storyline, if they're not gonna do the Matt Murdock crash out. And right now, I think Fisk sort of feels nerfed.
Alfredo:His wings have been clipped. What made Wilson Fisk such an, electric character on screen was that you didn't know what he was going to do. And now you kinda see, like, this dog has been trained. He's housebroken, and I'm sure we'll get there at some point. They keep alluding to it with the bloody knuckles.
Alfredo:But as of right now, I think the most compelling story is the Punisher influence on the police and what that's gonna lead to with Frank Castle. Would you guys agree?
Kopfhamer:Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like so kinda
Jagger:like I was saying earlier. It's just we already kinda saw that in the teaser where we see Frank is, like, beard look tired with, like, a beard on. Like, I think Frank's been on the run. He's not out here capping fucking heroes or whatever, and we're gonna get another classic, Frank and Matt team up. And it's gonna lead to Fisk.
Jagger:So
Kopfhamer:Yeah. For sure. I mean, you took the words out of my mouth. There's there's no other no other way that this story can go the way they've set the breadcrumbs up because you clearly have Fisk angling to demonize any vigilante on the street, which, again, going back to Hochberg's closing argument, he's making that argument in New York City where the Avengers had their headquarters for years.
Alfredo:City.
Kopfhamer:Right. So it's like I I absolutely had to.
Jagger:Great reference.
Kopfhamer:But hearing him, I was like, dog, you're you're speaking to the wrong choir. Like, what are we doing? This is a city that's like they have a fucking Broadway show about the Avengers. So it's weird that we have this angle from the top, you know, trying to demonize masks and vigilantes when the people clearly fucking love them. You you go back to Ant Man.
Kopfhamer:Ant Man is a celebrity because of his status as an Avenger. So how would But
Alfredo:I think that's what the show tries
Kopfhamer:to do. Without that's what I'm saying. How are they going to demonize them without having expressed Gone. Hey. The Punisher is killing people in cold blood on the streets.
Kopfhamer:And so utilizing that enemy within the ranks, the Punisher versus everyone else, maybe this is a play on the punisher kills the Marvel universe kinda sorta, but in a twisted way. I don't know.
Jagger:I mean, it
Alfredo:would be It
Kopfhamer:just feels like there's no other way they can do this.
Jagger:Well, the the same one, Alfredo, like, the 10 on the point that you just said is that they're gone right now. No. The Thunderbolts, that's, like, the big thing in their promo is that there's no Avengers.
Alfredo:Avengers are not available.
Jagger:Like, now you can reference them. You don't have to say, like, there's no dude, big green guy or sim with an hammer where they weren't referencing directly.
Alfredo:Netflix shit. Yeah.
Jagger:Yeah. Like, they don't have to do that anymore. Just say, like, hey. A lot of these other masks are popping up because the actual heroes with powers that are that are being called and and managed by the government, like, with, like, Thunderbird Ross and shit. We got this void that's being creative, and we need to, you know, stamp it out or fill it, you know, with something like police, not you know, kinda like the Watchmen thing, like, not to shit on it more.
Jagger:It's something that's been done with Watchmen. Yeah.
Alfredo:I I think that this for
Kopfhamer:storm, man.
Alfredo:For this being for this being a show that is supposed to be so self contained in such a big city where so much has already happened with the Avengers. Mhmm. I don't know that the storyline that they're going for here where the people of the city of New York have lost faith in the police because the police can't stop the crime and that they've lost faith because it really does. It seems like they say we miss them. We we don't have our Avengers, our heroes anymore.
Alfredo:I don't know if that's all that compelling to me because we're supposed to understand
Kopfhamer:in
Alfredo:this Marvel Universe that Spider Man is also still running around New York.
Kopfhamer:Right.
Alfredo:And and that, what they Fontaine, I can't remember what her Contessa or whatever they Fontaine is setting up the Thunderbolts to go do stuff. And, it's not just the Daredevil world. And I think that's the toughest thing for this show to transition into with the MCU was before they could just kind of ignore it and say, oh, well, this happened after Avengers, and they would always have the newspapers up in the back. But now we know for a fact that there is doctor Strange in New York, and there is Spider Man in New York.
Kopfhamer:Collins running around in what? Queens? So
Alfredo:Yeah.
Kopfhamer:Or or you know? Like, we have heroes all over New York. So the only way for Fisk to get his end goal is to try to set up the Punisher, you know, one of the people, one of the vigilantes as this, like, extreme demon and even kills other heroes, and that can turn the tide in the public. And that can give him the free you know, the freedom to then start enacting these real anti vigilante laws. I mean, otherwise
Alfredo:I can get with that.
Kopfhamer:Yeah. Like, otherwise, why what would be the point of introducing this faction of Punisher inspired cops or or vigilant, whatever you wanna call them? Why else would we use that symbol other than because it's in real life?
Jagger:And this is what She Hulk did really bad job at, but also kind of a good job at. At least they tried to do the right thing. And where I actually thought season two of Daredevil was good, I didn't mind having
Alfredo:Yeah.
Jagger:The longer trial because they were able to give it to me in morsels to where I didn't feel like I was just overwhelmed and bored for an entire episode. And the way that Daredevil has always kinda fit is how he fit in and how we saw in Spider Man where he is a lawyer. And because he's also a superhero, there is trust there. So, like, I think the white tiger story would have been good if it was just a little bit longer and they were able to reference other things. And that's why I said if we start with at least white tiger or something, maybe kill him early or maybe have it longer.
Jagger:Just not throw it through three episodes in as like a filler. And then maybe have this other fight with Fisk be about masks versus the government or whatever, kind of like the civil war argument, but more ground level. I think that's compelling, you know.
Alfredo:See. And that and that's my thought here on White Tiger was I thought the character was kinda cool. I just hate that it was a two episode arc. Now he definitely he definitely got his costume from, like, one like Timu or
Kopfhamer:Party City.
Alfredo:One of those. Yeah. No. It wasn't wasn't great.
Kopfhamer:Those camo moments are great.
Alfredo:But I can kinda get behind this very, you know, grounded street level hero that had to, you know, sew together his own shit. Like, at the end of Spider Man No Way Home, we're sitting there watching him sew his Spider Man costume. It's perfect. It's absolutely perfect. I can actually get it with, like, the more realistic shitty costume.
Alfredo:Like, it's fine. What I don't like is that we get a two episode arc for him where with most of it, he's actually not doing anything cool as White Tiger. He's sitting in a suit and crying. And, like, all really most of the White Tiger stuff we got was him on a bad CCTV, like, camera. And then the end where he's just he's taking a very casual walk down the street in his costume, not hopping on rooftops, not, like, in the shadows.
Alfredo:He's just walking around like a normal Joe. It's so I was
Kopfhamer:waiting I was waiting for him to, like, give a high five to somebody on the street as he passed them. Yeah.
Jagger:Doing the epic run. I'd argue that the Punisher has had the most action time being a badass than any other character, like the ratio, including Matt Murdock. Because, like, what you're saying is, like, that's the theme of the show is that, like, let's go all hang out with Matt Murdock and do group therapy. That that's what it fucking feels like sometimes. It's like, cool.
Jagger:Make that a show with, like, a premise, you know, like The Sopranos give you a doctor Melfi. Yeah. But, like, what I'm expecting one thing, it just it just feels like we don't know the show doesn't know what it wants to be. And, like, I think you're right that maybe it was just hard for the show to ever win in the first place, Alfredo.
Alfredo:I'm I'm gonna give it a little bit of leeway because it probably doesn't know what it wants to be now in our eyes because we're three episodes in. They obviously have a full story laid out. It's something that's there that we hope. Right? We hope.
Alfredo:Something that we can't see. I hope it's more, I hope it's more engaging. I hope it's more what's the word you used, Jag? I'm blanking right now.
Jagger:Compelling.
Alfredo:Unlike compelling. Thank you. I hope it's way more compelling than Fisk just trying to outlaw vigilantes because that's not gonna be a fun show for the daredevil.
Jagger:And we've seen it.
Alfredo:Like, like, way more punch that. He can't punch that. Like, there's nothing cool that's going to happen. He's not gonna be able to fight Fisk again. I think this show, because of the villain in the setup, is that it's going to require some legal jujitsu from Matt Murdock to set up Fisk.
Alfredo:Like, that to me is the only way this works is if Matt Murdock can get Fisk to tell on himself and get him impeached from his spot of power. That's the only way this works, and we get back to fighting Daredevil and fighting Fisk and the characters that we fell in love with.
Kopfhamer:Mhmm. Sorry. I just had the visual of Fisk signing an executive order and then Daredevil coming out of nowhere to, like, punch the executive order out of his hand. Sorry.
Alfredo:Man, I just I I do want this show to get to where we like it to be. I hope it will. I'm still holding out the hope because I just Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio are so good.
Jagger:They're so good.
Alfredo:They're so good. And I don't maybe I'm putting too much faith in the actors that I don't think they would allow this to happen to the show. And and and allegedly, the reshoots and and the change of story was based on their requests because they were just not feeling the original version of the show.
Kopfhamer:Mhmm. We just need more scenes of them facing off. Whether it's verbal or physical, just give us more of those two together, and it'll be fine.
Jagger:Or or, like yeah. Or him sending grunts or something. Just, like, action. Yeah. Just, like, we just need we we just need something, man.
Jagger:Like like like, I I don't know. Like, I think we're all on the same page that, like, it's pretty good. And I I know I'm a little bit more on the negative side, but it's a lot of
Kopfhamer:Just a little bit.
Jagger:Weird juju, a lot of weird juju around it for me, and I'm not gonna give it the benefit of the doubt anymore. Disney does not deserve my benefit of the doubt. I don't think right now.
Alfredo:And that's fair. And maybe I'm wrong for continuing to give it the benefit of the doubt. I think that you're on the right track though with the question being, have you seen the meme where it's, like a Korean lady? She's like, I don't hate it, but what is the point? Yes.
Jagger:And, like,
Alfredo:like, to me, that was that was this episode three of, like, I don't hate it, but what is the point? And I think that we have to hope at this payoff of what is the point of Punisher now being involved or police invoking this Punisher emblem that that has to pay off. If not, your biggest moment of suspense and action and everything in heart from this season really won't matter.
Jagger:Mhmm.
Alfredo:So this better pay off with everything that they do with the punisher. And now you're expecting us as a fan base to have to really hope that another character who this is not named for, not titled after, can really make this show relevant. And that's concerning. So I've I've I've flipped a little bit. I'm starting to go down the spectrum here on Daredevil a little bit.
Alfredo:Now the more that I talk it out and think about it Sorry. Yeah. You fucker. You made it worse.
Kopfhamer:What I what I would really love to see is, it reveals that Vanessa's the one behind this whole Punisher subplot, and it interferes with Fisk plans, and he either comes to the realization that she is no longer aligned with his interest and he has to either get rid of her or readjust. I would hope he goes for the get rid of her plan, and that way we can see the full, evolution of, like, the kingpin where it's like he is fully unleashed and he has nothing holding him back. Because you're right, Jagger, what you said earlier is he feels nerfed this season. And I get it. He got betrayed by his his mentee, and he got shot in the eye and, like, recovered.
Kopfhamer:But I think the ultimate betrayal of the woman he has done everything in the last decade for, If that doesn't push him over the edge into full kingpin, nothing else will. And then this is a waste of a character.
Jagger:The kingpin's been cucked. He's the cuckpin or king cock. Oh, no.
Kopfhamer:Ben. Yeah. She keeps she and she keeps bringing up Adam, her former lover. So it's it's one of those things where it's like, okay. It's
Alfredo:really that Kingpin has Adam locked up somewhere. Right? Like, he's just beating the shit out of him slowly every single day.
Jagger:Yeah. Because, like, oh, because Adam was like someone she was fucking while he was gone, I guess.
Alfredo:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she made she made him promise that she's not going to kill him. And then every time that the two of them are in a room together, they zoom in on fist knuckles and they're bloody.
Alfredo:And, it's like it's him cleaning them off. And it's just like he's probably got him locked
Kopfhamer:in the
Alfredo:sex dungeon. He's going down there and just beating the shit out of him every day as part of his morning routine. And then he goes up and has an egg white omelette with Vanessa and a single stock of whatever the fuck. And, yeah, it's pretty good. Fisk Fisk is into some weird shit now.
Alfredo:Like, I think he's gone full deep end. Alright. Well, guys, I think that does it for us on Daredevil Born Again episode three. And like I mentioned before, we're gonna be back every single week reviewing these episodes, discussing the endings, the things that we pick up on, and, giving you our opinion on these. Because honestly, even though we cry and we complain, I'm still having fun.
Alfredo:I'm still having fun watching these shows, and I'm gonna keep watching Daredevil. They could do seventeen seasons, and I'm gonna watch it. But, we're also doing Invincible season three. We got the finale coming up on Thursday, Severn season two, the White Lotus season three. And, of course, if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, take a moment to leave us a review there.
Alfredo:As always, I wanna thank you guys for watching and listening all the way through for myself, for Jagger, for cough. We'll see you next time. Adios. She. Crumble cookies are great.
Jagger:People who hate crumble cookies are fucking idiots. Like, like, there's, like, a whole section.
Kopfhamer:Crumble tarts are overrated, under baked, and overpriced. Come on. They're not that great.
Jagger:They're basically a tart. Let's put it that way.
Alfredo:Yeah. They're small cakes.
Jagger:Yeah. If you'd call it crumble tarts and people not expecting and let's put it this way. Cookies are overrated, cough. Cookies are overrated. So they give you a tart instead.
Jagger:And and and
Alfredo:Doug, this is your worst fucking take. This is your worst take ever.
Kopfhamer:Cookies are overrated? Go fuck yourself. Oh. Oreos are the greatest thing that's ever been invented.
Alfredo:No. Oreos aren't even a thing. What flavor are Oreos?
Jagger:Yeah. What it this
Alfredo:Explain yourself.
Kopfhamer:Chocolate and cream.
Alfredo:I got it. It's not chocolate.
Jagger:Cookies don't look at the chocolate adjacent. It's like how you hoo It's
Alfredo:like Sunny d is is not actually
Kopfhamer:orange juice.
Alfredo:Fresh baked chocolate
Kopfhamer:chip cookies right out of the oven. Still a little gooey in the middle. Oh, perfect. Perfect.
Jagger:Why did what was a black lady squeal?
Kopfhamer:Oh. I'm back at a heart.
Jagger:I'll just drop a
Alfredo:gooey in the middle and then turn into Madea so quick.
Jagger:I know.
