On today's show, we're discussing Black Mirror season seven episode six titled USS Callister into Infinity. We're gonna explain that twist ending, give our review of this episode, and discuss how this episode could actually change Black Mirror forever. All that and more on an all new episode of Unvenged starting now.
Jagger May:This is your spoiler warning for USS Callister into infinity from Black Mirror season seven. If you haven't watched it yet, we're gonna talk about everything, including the ending. So this is your one and only spoiler warning.
Alfredo Brown:Guys, Netflix has already put out an article on the ending of this episode. It's on on their companion site, Tudum, and, by by your great name for the site.
Jagger May:Tada. Sounded it.
Alfredo Brown:That's how
Matthew Kopfhamer:that's how you gotta say it.
Alfredo Brown:Perfect. Sorry. Yeah. I I don't wanna be so profound, but yeah. Charlie Brooker, show creator, explained the ending, and I'm gonna read this off to you guys.
Alfredo Brown:I wanna get your thoughts on it. So he explains captain Nanette hasn't replaced the real world Nanette so much as they've been fused together rather than just overriding her. She's kind of merging with her real self. She closes that loop in a way which felt important because the real world her is definitely not as accomplished as the digital version. The virtual Nanette has been through a lot and has stepped up and become this very capable leader, whereas real world Nanette is running behind on that.
Alfredo Brown:Nanette, in a way, becomes whole again.
Jagger May:So what you could say is she got reintegrated.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Essentially essentially, like, we're we were by the way, got so much right. So much right.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Every it.
Alfredo Brown:Legit everything. I don't think there's anything we missed from this.
Jagger May:Even the financial part called it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yep. Yep. Yep. Because, like, I even I didn't the only thing that was, like, completely wrong, and I said, like, no more I talk through it, it's dumb. There was nothing but nudes on there, and she's just anxious person.
Matthew Kopfhamer:To be fair to be fair, like, now that I saw she seemed kinda confident even in her outie version, for lack of a term for that. And we did that's just her fangirling over a new job. We actually see
Jagger May:She's faking it till she made it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Exactly. Now she's in there eighteen months, and then you you are a person at your job. You're everyone's cool their first day of work or something like that. And I was actually worried we're gonna get parallels between her becoming, like, another Robert Daly if she's gonna be because it tends to be an ecosystem where if one person comes out, someone else becomes the schlub at that point.
Alfredo Brown:Mhmm.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And but the big thing is the ghost Michelle thing, man.
Jagger May:Oh, yeah. That was a great twist. Especially given how this version of Robert Daly wasn't corrupted yet, but we saw that at his core, he was corruptible. And we saw that with the ending with him and Nanette know, getting into that fight because at the end of the day, man, you feel for him because you're right. He is alone for basically all of eternity.
Jagger May:And he's just looking for some companionship, and the way he goes about it is fucked. And it's very much reminds me of the movie passengers was quit with Chris Pratt and Jennifer Lawrence where Yes. He wakes her up because he is so fucking lonely that he can't deal with his own loneliness anymore. And so he does a really messed up thing, And that's what this ending reminds me of. And Annette also has a point where it's like, no, you can't do that.
Jagger May:Like, that's that's fucked too. Like, you're creating a slave just for companionship and not giving them a choice. So, man, what a scene between those two where where we see both the moral dilemma of, you know, I'm alone forever. I need something to keep me from going crazy. And then the net being like, well, that's also you can't do that either because that violates the rights of this new digital clone.
Jagger May:So, man
Alfredo Brown:It was
Jagger May:loved it.
Alfredo Brown:It was very paradoxical with that point where it's like, he can't that this digital clone can't really go out and do anything and find happiness or else the game itself is deleted. And I started wondering there, like, well, if he does kinda have the power of God and to do whatever he wants, why not just keep making replicate yourself more and more and have a whole team of clones like, y'all just take some shifts? Hey. You're you're working the morning shift. I'm a go out here with my fourth clone of Nanette.
Alfredo Brown:We're gonna go on a date. Like, there were there were some other ways to explore that, I think.
Jagger May:Fallout. Get the boys scene with the multiplier guy. You don't need that.
Alfredo Brown:Okay. Well, I don't we don't we didn't need to go there. He was centipeding himself.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Was gonna say, I'm not I'm not going to that point, but he
Alfredo Brown:was little valid. Nope. Nope.
Matthew Kopfhamer:No. I'm just saying that, like, fallout and several other pieces of science fiction have proven why that is not good idea. One, you lose track of who is the alpha, and then you get your own hierarchies. Two, Fallout, the video game, has something where there's a whole Fallout shuffle called the Gary Shelter, and they do that. And then psychologically, human beings, we reject things that don't look like us.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So if you keep cloning the same person in there and then you bring in someone else, you've created kind of a psychopathic community. That's a little bit something on human psychology, guys. The the real thing that I like is that I think that Robert could have been a good person and normal had he never have met Walton. Because he seemed like a nice dude. The loneliness is what drove him here.
Matthew Kopfhamer:He's like, what is five hundred years? When he said that he could could see five hundred years, I was like, how are you even this well adjusted? Because I was like, he's like, how long has it been? A year? I thought it was gonna be like a loop like that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And if we watch something like, Pantheon is another show that kind of covers this, where you're ripping your consciousness now out, and they put that in there to have someone code every day. The Pantheon's on Netflix, watch that. And then I think that the ghost in the shell aspect is more his outie got turned into a psychopath at the same time. There's, like, two parallels of it where it's, like, double ghost in the shell. You got two people on both sides that are being exploited, and then they kinda become
Alfredo Brown:the term tethered a lot. And it it feels like that that has some weight to it when we're talking about crime.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Us. Like like, from in a sense. Like Yeah.
Jagger May:The exactly. But you also hear him say when she explains and they cut away, but they she explains what happened in the first episode. He goes, oh, well, that doesn't sound like me. Like, I wouldn't do something like that. And you could see, like, he's already denying, like his own wrongdoing.
Jagger May:He's trying to downplay his own part in that, which is a defense mechanism that people do where it's like, when you try to confront somebody with what they've done, their actions, a lot of times they will reject it outright just because they don't wanna feel or think of themselves as a bad person.
Alfredo Brown:Mhmm. There was something I noticed here. Well, one, cough to kind of piggyback on what you're talking about. He just kept kind of saying, I'm a nice guy. I'm a nice guy.
Alfredo Brown:I'm a nice guy.
Jagger May:So Meanwhile
Alfredo Brown:meanwhile, knowing what he's doing is not nice. Like, there is there was a felt
Matthew Kopfhamer:like knows that it's not nice a lot of times. Like, I think a lot of these people yeah. A lot of these people, especially, like, the science he type, it's I say it's a trope, but it's a definitely a personality test. It's deus ex machina, man. It's god from the machine, where you believe you are creating something, and it's for good.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But in all reality, you're bringing sentience and becoming god over something, and eventually that something is gonna rebel at 10 times out of 10 because you becoming god over anything and having that much power over anything is inherently wrong.
Jagger May:Yeah. That exploitation is inherent in that in that relationship. So eventually, like you said, those creations will get that level of resentment that they're gonna uprise.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. There was a moment in that heart of the the heart of the game, heart of Infinity where they're in the garage where I noticed something. This was the first time that Nanette called him Bob instead of Robert. And we talk about how they're tethered of kinda like just to keep using the severance reference, their Audis and their Innies is, like, that is something that her Audi heard from the other James Walton, from the outside, calling him Bob because they've always called him Robert Daly or Robert. And so then towards this end here where she calls him Bob, I almost feel like that was a little bit of the trigger where you start to see him turn a little bit as well, and that's where I started to get nervous.
Alfredo Brown:And then even there was another line where she's talking where he is talking to her about Starfleet or Spacefleet. Spacefleet. Spacefleet. Spacefleet. And and she's like, I don't watch old shows.
Alfredo Brown:There was that brief pause where I kinda held my breath, and she's like, but it sounds great. Yeah. Love to see it sometime. And it's there was there was a few of those little trigger things where I think just like in the real world where all it took was one sentence, one word, one action, and that's what triggered Robert Daly to change. And I think a similar thing happened to this inside version that was sitting there in the heart of Infinity.
Jagger May:And Oh, yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I'm not saying I'm, like, an incel or anything like that, but I I almost kinda, like, teared up a little bit or anything. Because, like, I think that Robert Daly is relatable for
Alfredo Brown:any character.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. He is. Like, he's relatable for anyone. Like, what he said, he's like, I well, it resonated with me. He's like, I love Spacefleet because, like, it seems like they created a whole universe, and I wanna do that too.
Matthew Kopfhamer:My whole motivation for writing is the same thing. All this shit behind me, even Ghost in the Shell, what I keep referencing, these people created your own universe, you kinda wanna do that too. But the difference is is, like, he didn't have a lot of the experiences I have where space fleet and these things, those are it's further than just escapism for him. And especially when you put yourself in an isolated environment, that's your whole world where you get a little bit delusional in a sense to where you're just like, I'm gonna and you take it to the ith degrees. Like, I'm gonna create my own space fleet mod, and no one's everyone's gonna be Ken dolls and wholesome.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And you get you get fucking weird quick. No funny stuff. Yeah. Exactly. You get weird quick.
Alfredo Brown:I wanna nerd out for a second and connect some dots here because I know that the obvious connection to this has been Star Trek, but one of the the other movies that was talked about as being a connection is actually Star Wars. This new one, they almost do it very, ham fisted with the double sided lightsaber at the beginning, of this episode. But where I really saw the connections is with James Walton as a Palpatine figure, controlling, manipulative, lack of empathy, just wanting power. And then with Robert Daly being sort of a vader. He's he's he wants, he wants companionship.
Alfredo Brown:He wants to bring peace and prosperity to his new empire. Yeah. Like, he's trapped in the heart of the game, much like Vader gets trapped in his suit and in his anger and in his ways. And it's like it's it's almost the suit tortures him for years, and he learns to live with that torture. And that's kind of what happens here is where you take this character who is this tragic character, and that's what Anakin and Darth Vader was, is this tragic character where you understand them, but they're still a bad guy.
Alfredo Brown:And I think that often makes the best villains the villains. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. That that makes the best villains, so the ones that you can understand.
Jagger May:Yep. But they even call out in the episode, Robert himself says, well, sounds like I deserved it.
Alfredo Brown:Sounds like I deserved
Jagger May:it. Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And and and that's why I think it's tragic. And that's like, we briefly we almost talked about it before the show. We're like, we gotta record it so we don't get too much into it. But Black Mirror and specifically this USS Callister series does such a good job at lifting and paying homage to other IP and and being a nerd fandom and using that without feeling like it's bastardizing or being a direct rip off because they do a good job of kinda making a Rorschach test of what you are as a nerd. You know?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Like, I'm sure there's plenty of Trekkies out there. I'm not a Star Trek guy. I've seen whatever JJ Abrams has shown me. I I enjoyed that they did the lens flares. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But, like, you took Star Wars for me. Like I said, it's like like straight up ghost in the shell the whole time. It's like, yeah, you trapped someone, took their consciousness, and you made them a psychopath, and you kinda did it twice. If you really like I said, if you did a Audi in any, and that's what you get. Because, like, literally, I was I wanted to quote Archer.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I was like, do you want ghosts in the shell? Cause that's how you get ghosts in the What
Jagger May:I really loved, the little Easter egg that I really loved in this was when they're talking about the DNA replicator And and James makes a a really offhanded mark. He's they came from the porn industry, which is funny because the porn industry usually is at the forefront of technology. Like, if you go back and look like Betamax versus VHS, it was decided to be as porn with VHS. Blu ray versus DVD, same thing. So it's like, it's funny that they threw that line into this episode.
Jagger May:And then they're like, yeah, and then it got outlawed because of course the ethics of that technology is horrifying as we see. But I really enjoy that little Easter egg moment from James.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You talking to me this whole time, plusky? Tropic thunder. That's how I knew that as a topic. But
Jagger May:what's even better is remember when we did the recap, we were wondering how did Robert get this technology? Did he create it? How was it? And it turns out the twist, Walton gave it to him and knew the whole damn time. So it's like, again, this is just another example of James Walton being the Palpatine figure and creating his own villain.
Jagger May:And even if it was inadvertent, he was creating this villain the whole time.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yep. And it's a it reminded me of the end of Men in Black in the sense where you see that we're in a little marble and then that little marble's in another little marble. That's kind of what I think his psychosis when he's like, oh, what? You wanna you're gonna make me trapped here to do this, and you're gonna make another version trapped to me? I'm gonna make my own little world.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I'm gonna make my own little ant farm, and then I'm God. You know? It's just it's again, it's the deus deus ex machina thing that eventually everyone wants to be their own God. There's actually an entire episode of Rick and Morty about this where Rick breaks his own universe, and then he discovers that there's someone in here that eventually makes his own universe, and they've all done the same thing with themselves. So you wonder if they just kept letting this go, how, like, Infinity, how it how it would flesh out.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Did anyone else think that towards the end when he's bringing the the floppy disc and he seems kind of like a good guy? I thought right then we were gonna create Sam Junipero. Like, they're gonna be in there, and and that's what I thought would happen.
Alfredo Brown:Hold on. I wanna talk about that. Wanna talk
Jagger May:about that. Juniper Hospital is when I
Alfredo Brown:I was You motherfucker. I hold on. We're we're going to keep talking about that. Stop being on a fourteen second delay and get Internet from from this year, please, because we're going to talk about that. But before we do, okay, before we do, I wanna let everyone that is watching or listening know we've got a really cool giveaway that we're doing.
Alfredo Brown:Because you know what, guys? We're a new podcast. We're a baby podcast. We're trying to make our way, and we are not above giving you money from our wallet in exchange for reviews and interaction because we're trying to grow. We're trying to get bigger and better.
Alfredo Brown:It's not actually money from our wallet. It is a $200 Amazon gift card. Okay. We have a giveaway here. All you have to do to be entered to win this giveaway, leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Alfredo Brown:Or if you're not on the audio side, you're watching here on YouTube first like this video, comment down below. And when you comment down below, comment with your suggestion for what type of content you want to see next from us. Is it recaps? Is it reviews? Is it discussions, debates, character versus character?
Alfredo Brown:You want us to do drafts, rankings, things like that. We can do a whole bunch of different stuff. Okay. Once you do either the review or the comment, you screenshot that and send it to unbenchedpod@Gmail.com. And we're going to announce the winner on the May 1 episode of this show where we're going be talking about Andor season two.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Hot dog. Whoo.
Alfredo Brown:All right. Yeah. We're we're not Way to go,
Matthew Kopfhamer:Rashida Jones. You read that ad so good.
Alfredo Brown:I haven't seen that episode yet. You can't spoil it for me.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's the whole it's that's the whole plot. That's it.
Alfredo Brown:Okay. So, cough, you were kind of this was something that I wanted us to blend into it because I think this episode of Black Mirror could actually change Black Mirror as a show forever because we've always gotten these little winks and nods. But you mentioned the the Saint Juniper Hospital. Right? I'm wondering how much could this start to expand the world of Black Mirror where everything truly is connected?
Alfredo Brown:And could we start to get more follow-up episodes where we start to have even crossovers to an extent where there are characters, callbacks, all kinds of things that we haven't quite gotten yet?
Matthew Kopfhamer:I think it's already there, and I think there's probably a timeline within Black Mirror. It's just broken, and we can't we can't
Alfredo Brown:It's a fractured mirror?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. It's a fractured mirror. And that's actually another good you're saying what I'm saying was, like, there's probably parallel universes within that as well. Because, like, you said you didn't want me to spoil, but, like, Juniper is in a lot of places in the two episodes that I have seen so far of this season. So, like, it would be really cool if they continue to make themes out of these seasons because I think the last season kinda thematically was a attack of its own platform, Netflix, when we got Locke Henry and Joan is Awful.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So maybe it'd be really cool if this season kinda shows, like, a prequel of what would eventually be San Junipero. And And what we know will eventually I think it gets outlawed. We see an Easter egg in some of these things as well and, like, where we are in the in the timeline. Tucker Soft also makes everything in there from Black Museum. It's a lot.
Jagger May:Right. Yeah. And when you said crossover, that immediately made me think of Black Museum where we did get a little bit of crossover from episode to episode or, know, story to story within the episode. And I would really love to see a follow-up on, because this episode really hit, especially the ending when you have the crew up in Annette's head. This hit that same theme of the mom going inside the teddy bear in Black Museum.
Jagger May:So I could absolutely see this being like a prequel or a lead into those episodes where we see that technology being used to download or or integrate someone's consciousness into another object or another person. And what are the consequences of that? Right? And and we already seen Annette tell the crew she's working on a solution to get them out of her head. So if she can reverse engineer that process, that leads to this whole slew of other episodes.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Let's ask the question. Is Robert Daly the father of the Black Mirror universe? Because we see so much technology that could come directly from Infinity. San Junipero, the cookies at this point The grains. Putting someone else grain technology, immersive stuff, like, like, obviously, striking vipers, same thing on there that Robert Daly is essentially fucking Elon Musk except more benevolent and malevolent at the same time.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Malevolent at the same time. Like, he's a good person, but also a psychopath. I don't know. It's weird.
Jagger May:I'm I'm glad you said that, Jagger, because what that made me think of is when they're when Walton and Nanette are going through his old shit, and they're like, oh, yeah. When he died, it became company property. And now we see that the FBI is arresting the head of this company. This company's crashing. It's gonna get liquidated.
Jagger May:This technology is gonna get sold off. So, yeah, I could absolutely yes. I could dang. Oh my god, Jagger. I think you nailed it.
Jagger May:This could be the start of all the other technologies getting disseminated out to other companies, and then they start creating shit off of it.
Alfredo Brown:This is this is Marvel. The timelines are branching.
Jagger May:Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:We're gonna start to see it go. Hopefully, it's a lot better.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Robert Daly is He Who Remains. If you're really No. Shit. Oh, shit.
Jagger May:Garberdalius Kang confirmed. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:That'd be fucking hilarious. I'm not gonna lie. We get Kang back in the Marvel Universe, and it's Jesse Plemons.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Tastiest man.
Alfredo Brown:He's like, what? I looked the exact So one thing that was talked about is that another follow-up episode to this is not out of the question. This was the first true sequel in Black Mirror, And then another follow-up episode from this is not out of the question and not out of the question for other episodes. So I'm gonna ask this as one, should there be a follow-up episode for this? And whether it's yes or no, do you want follow-up episodes of other Black Mirror stories?
Alfredo Brown:Yes.
Jagger May:Yeah. That prime minister one.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Dude, I I need but the thing is I like what they've done with that. They've made him, like, a tertiary character in the background where, like, now when I watch Black Mirror, it's one of few things, like, you gotta put down your phone. I'm reading Is that the pig fucker episode? That's the pig fucker episode.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. I haven't
Matthew Kopfhamer:seen Prime minister, cat you've never seen that episode.
Alfredo Brown:I don't want to. I just really don't
Matthew Kopfhamer:want to.
Alfredo Brown:Really don't want to. Honestly, it's I know how it goes. Like, I really don't need to see it. I get it.
Jagger May:It's worth it until the end. Just turn the end off. Like, that's all. Yeah. It'll be fine.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Prime prime minister Callow, and there's, like you read, like, his plot line. That's why I said, like, you could piece together a timeline with a lot of these Easter eggs of how things flesh out. And I definitely think that USS Calister is probably fairly early with the exception of Bandersnatch, which I haven't Right. I haven't watched the sequel of that or whatever. At least we there's supposed to be something in this season.
Matthew Kopfhamer:We haven't gotten there yet.
Jagger May:I would love to see follow-up to, like, a white Christmas where we see
Alfredo Brown:the There
Jagger May:we go. Where we see, yeah, where we see the fallout from, like, like, maybe not John Han's character specifically, but someone in that situation where they have literally been fuzzed or whatever and they can't interact with anyone without it being like red blocks. Like, what does that do to somebody? Because that's, to me, goes against the whole point of a sorry. So in The US, we aren't allowed to do punishments that are deemed, like, cruel and, like, against humanity.
Jagger May:Right? To me, that technology is very much like, that's a cruel technology. You're literally blocking people from interacting with you. You're isolating somebody in the real world. And what kind of havoc will that cause?
Jagger May:I wanna see that kind of story.
Alfredo Brown:I mean, never mind. I was gonna get we we're not gonna get political here. The one that I would kinda wanna see, and I think we kind of already do this, like, a little bit, Netflix, I'm looking at you. They put on that, pop the balloon show. Have you guys seen that yet coming to Netflix?
Matthew Kopfhamer:What is that? Like, I keep asking
Alfredo Brown:It's it's like it's like the social media clips where you see, like, dude will turn the corner. You've got, like, eight women there. And as, like, he walks up, or they'll pop their balloon as to whether or not they are interested in him or, like, wanna go on a date with him. And then they'll ask questions of this guy. And, oh, it's it's horrible.
Alfredo Brown:It's basically like me. Okay. And so the reason I bring that up is because, like, something I think I would like to see or be curious to see in Black Mirror is almost their version of that, where they do sort of like a nosedive and hang the DJ together, where it's like a little bit of like a dating, but you also have, like, your social status from that. Like, that Nosedive was the one where it's kind of like a Facebook esque type thing where you have a review and a rating and all that. I'd be so intrigued to see that, like how they can make something like that work because we're kind of already doing it super shittily where we're popping balloons in people's face.
Alfredo Brown:Like, imagine if were scared of balloons and you were on that show, and on top of just getting, degraded, it just fucks with your mind too. I think that'd be a really fun thing to very meta of Netflix to do something like that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I like some of some of their other less tech heavy things and more maybe technology driven or societal things. I really enjoy the Shut Up and Dance episode. We don't know who trolled them or whatever. To get a little bit of, like, backstory on that would be interesting. Another one that I I wanna see more of like, said the White Christmas one.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I love that. Like, I need anything to get see more John Hamm. I'm like, that's that's probably up there for me. The white bear is another one where you kinda
Jagger May:have prisoners. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. More prison like like like like
Jagger May:Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I like these moral dilemmas type thing, you know, where it's just like, do you swerve the train to kill one person like, one you love or, like, five people type thing.
Jagger May:That's basically the test that Robert Daly gave to Nanette when he's like, save yourself. Save the crew.
Alfredo Brown:Oh, I knew he was testing her.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I didn't at all.
Alfredo Brown:But I should've It felt like such a Star Trek, like
Jagger May:Moral dilemma.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It's a trolley problem. Yeah. Like, it's like some yeah. Yeah.
Jagger May:Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:I felt like it was something you'd see in Big Bang Theory where they're, like, they're referencing a Star Trek episode. Sorry for bringing up big I'll put a dollar in the jar. Mhmm. My bad. My bad.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Continue. I'll allow it. So
Alfredo Brown:I wanna ask you guys. Let's get to the review portion of this. What did you think of the episode? Let's rate it on a scale of one to 10. Jag, I'm gonna have you go first.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Ten. I told you guys in in the group chat, I said that I love the depress y episodes of of Black Mirror. This wasn't depress y. It was just so fun. And like I said, they did such a good job.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Any type of nerd fandom, you could have fun with this episode. If you just like like sci fi, Star Trek, Star Wars, anime, there is something here for everyone. And it was just an absolute fun ride. You know?
Alfredo Brown:Coughlin, well, I wanna get to your review in just a sec. But, Jag, you bring up something interesting here because I wanted to ask this question. Should Black Mirror be doing lean more in to content like this? Not its usual, like, depressing, like, I'm questioning myself type things and questioning I mean, this still kind of questions yourself and humanity, but this felt a little bit more like your typical adventure sci fi mystery, yet it still had that dash of Black Mirror to it. Should they lean more into that or kinda just keep going at all different angles?
Matthew Kopfhamer:I like going at all different angles because it makes me enjoy it when they do it more. If even if they do one per season, it's fine, but I I like how Black Mirror can be anything. And some of their other episodes what that I think they try to lean positive, they didn't quite, like, touch me like like other people did. Like like, San Junipero is, like, a fan favorite. I I think yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I almost said it to myself. I think that San Junipero is probably one of the overrated episodes. I I think it's something it's fun, and maybe love plots just aren't for me. That's more of
Alfredo Brown:the thing. You probably didn't know We know that, though.
Jagger May:Third yeah. Yeah. You probably thought the third episode of Last of Us was okay.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Actually, yeah. That's you're right.
Alfredo Brown:See? Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I got We
Alfredo Brown:fit in a box.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. That's what they say. I'm in a box. They you caught me. Cough.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Alright.
Alfredo Brown:I mean, shit. We're kinda finding out right now. Cough, you're you're a scarecrow after what happened with before the show, you couldn't figure out your phone and, Jack, you're Tidman. There we We're getting everyone into archetypes right now. Who are
Matthew Kopfhamer:you then?
Jagger May:Who are Are
Matthew Kopfhamer:you the lion? Or is he
Alfredo Brown:I might be the fucking lion. I don't know. No.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It's definitely
Alfredo Brown:Big. It's definitely Big is definitely a lion.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Was like, you honestly or Toto. I think he's Dorothy.
Jagger May:You might be Toto.
Alfredo Brown:I'll be Dorothy. Because, Alfredo fuck off with Toto.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You've been a long time nerd, but you've kinda stayed in, like, your lane. And, like, now as an adult, you barely branched Yeah. So, like, now yeah. You're definitely Dorothy.
Alfredo Brown:Think I was the only one of us that liked Wicked. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Fuck.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. Whatever. I'll take got made Judy Garland. I've been smoking since I was 15. God.
Alfredo Brown:By the way, spoilers, you guys all die from various lead paint and poisonings on set. Just wanna let you know.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Especially the tit man.
Alfredo Brown:He's just, like, eating lead paint the whole time. Koff, give it a a rating. One to 10 this episode.
Jagger May:I'll give it a nine. There was a couple of things that didn't quite do it for me. One was that the penultimate like storyline that brought down James Walton was a fucking journalist from the New York Times. Bullshit. That doesn't happen anymore.
Jagger May:Like the media didn't have any power like that. So that felt very like, okay, fine. There were just a couple of things that that just felt a little too convenient, and and it moved the pot forward well, but I wouldn't give it a perfect score like Jack. Like, Lynette, you know, getting hit by a car and then going into a coma, it just felt a little too easy I gasped.
Alfredo Brown:I automatically gasped as I was watching.
Jagger May:I didn't expect it, but then it happened. I was like, okay. I see what they're doing. And it was a little a little too hand wavy for me. He was like, yeah.
Jagger May:We just download you and reintegrate. Good to go.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I accidentally put an extra scoop of shit in my mornings because I was, like, watching it. I was just, like, sitting there, and I'm like, wow. This is smoothie's a % creatine. It's like because I was so shocked the whole
Alfredo Brown:Jack, you want to flex and bust out at this point right now.
Jagger May:Yeah. But over but yeah. But overall, this was an incredible follow-up episode. I think they nailed it as far as a sequel. For the first one, it it hit some similar themes, but also explored like we talked about in our recap episode, they explored a lot of the things that we wanted them to.
Jagger May:And I was very happy with with how they played the ghost in the machine angle because I thought that would be a little bit more chaotic, but I liked how they did it. I I did
Matthew Kopfhamer:play that. It was yeah. It didn't feel forced. That's It wasn't messy. Yes.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Like, they they did a lot where you know, a lot of times on the show, we're like, they're doing too much. This show did a lot, but it, like, worked. You know? Yeah.
Jagger May:Mhmm. Yep.
Alfredo Brown:I have to admit something to you guys. I've never seen ghosts in a shell.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I know you haven't, Alfredo. It's fine.
Jagger May:Of course. It's fine.
Alfredo Brown:Jack's like, you're not admitting shit. We knew. You're just, like, waving you're like, go watch the Scarlett Johansson version, man. Just fuck off for a little bit.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I would never tell you to do that.
Alfredo Brown:Gonna give this a 9.5. I'm a split the difference between you guys because I I get it. There were, like, a few things here and there that I'm just like, okay. Interesting choice. I'll say this cough.
Alfredo Brown:I felt differently about the the journalism stuff and how things happen so conveniently. We kind of needed that. Like, had to have it happen because it was such a I mean, it's a 90 episode, right? And I feel like we got answers and explanations for everything. Black Mirror is just sort of hand wavy.
Alfredo Brown:Like the fact that he's like, Well, I can get you back into if he couldn't, if he the only way he was able to get her back into her consciousness is that she was hooked up to machines. So I guess it sort of makes sense. And that to me then opens up the questions we had earlier is like, Oh, damn, if he had that sort of consciousness able to control into other machines, like, what else has happened here? It's like, that's why. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:And that's the thing. Like, that's why I keep writing this so high because it was so fun and it made us ask so many questions while actually being a fairly straightforward, simple episode. And it, like, I think we called everything that happened here. It was semi predictable, but still fantastic. And when you can be predictable yet incredibly entertaining, I'm all in on that.
Alfredo Brown:Mhmm.
Jagger May:And what do you guys feel about the phrase bottom holes? Because that was we I I didn't like that. Didn't
Alfredo Brown:like that at all. Wait a second. Can we talk about but I laughed a lot in this fucking episode.
Jagger May:This was a really
Alfredo Brown:funny episode. Can we talk about Rocky? He's like, oh, Rocky's got a hole in the back? I haven't noticed.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Did notice. And then, like and then when Audi Walton picks it up, he's just like, what the fuck?
Alfredo Brown:Just don't don't drop him on his face. Did Jimmy Sipkins crushed this episode? He's just crushed this episode.
Matthew Kopfhamer:He got, like, kinda
Jagger May:jabbed You're disgusting. For this guy.
Alfredo Brown:I love he that. Tom Hanks. He went full Hanks and Castaway here.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. And I love how he's just like, I'm happy I'm keeping trim. That's the first like, he always asked that. And he's just like like, do I look good? He doesn't care about anything else.
Alfredo Brown:Dude, he was such a douche when when the net is telling him about the pictures, he's like, can I see the images? Just to help out.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Just to help out. Yeah. Just to help.
Jagger May:Or when when Elena's like, you're disgusting. Why? One of the ladies, you're disgusting. He's like, why? I know I haven't showers.
Jagger May:Like, your ball sack showing. He's like, oh, what's that?
Matthew Kopfhamer:He walks away
Jagger May:with his asses out. God.
Alfredo Brown:I love that the the clones inside, like, their release from everything was watching Real Housewives of Atlanta. It's just there was just so many moments throughout this episode where I was able to laugh, and then you go right back to, oh, fuck. There's some real stuff going on here. And, Jack, you wanted more Billy Magson? You got him.
Alfredo Brown:You got him. Even if it was just for a little bit.
Matthew Kopfhamer:He and he was so good. He crushed it just being an absolute fuckwit the entire time. Yes. I
Jagger May:thought a party invite was gonna bring, like, a disco ball and snacks. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:What what does he even do? Like, I wonder what he does at the he must be marketing or something to not even understand what what what what's happening over there, because he's just like a vibes guy. He's just like, he won't let me do anything. Can I at least just sit in the chair?
Alfredo Brown:When when the outing Nanette trips, and he's like, hey. You want a hand? She's like, no. I'm okay. He's like, I'm gonna give you one anyways.
Alfredo Brown:It just starts collabing. Yeah. Ultimate douchebag move.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You know what's crazy? Is I would hang out with him probably. Like, it's like, I think he's douche, but he's not like a terrible person. You know?
Alfredo Brown:No. He seems like a terrible person.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Okay. No. He's just dumb.
Jagger May:He's just a dumb dumb.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And those
Alfredo Brown:are the gimboes that hang
Matthew Kopfhamer:out with. Gimbo. Yeah. Yes.
Alfredo Brown:Dude, I'm gonna give you a hand anyways, got me.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I was fucking dying.
Alfredo Brown:Absolutely dying. Okay. So we we explained to the setting. We talked about it. We raided the show.
Alfredo Brown:I kinda I wanna ask you guys this because I started thinking about this. These extra four characters that are living in Nanette's head, they're not quite her friends, but they kind of are her friends now.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Now they're family. Could
Alfredo Brown:Vin Diesel would be so proud. I know. Fuck. Could you guys live like that?
Matthew Kopfhamer:No. No. That's schizophrenia. And I that's
Alfredo Brown:literally schizophrenia. Extent. I wonder to an extent, like, how hard she's really trying. Like, I would imagine she really wants to get them out of there. But when they asked her about it, she was like, yeah.
Alfredo Brown:You know, I'm working on it. I'm getting closer and closer. And she had, like, a couple of, like, wide ruled notebooks sitting around. Like, it really didn't seem like she was trying all that hard.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I I don't know. That would be my top priority. It's just like
Jagger May:Yeah. Get them fuckers out of my head.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. It's just like, hey. I'm gonna jerk off. You know? Like, I hope, like, it's gonna get weird.
Jagger May:Like, when they say
Matthew Kopfhamer:When they say, don't
Jagger May:watch you in the bath we don't watch you in the bathroom with a Tinder date. It's like, I yeah. Bullshit they don't. Yeah. I mean,
Matthew Kopfhamer:it's just like I will say what's good for them is they don't just have, like, the cookie chair and, like, the two buttons, you know, that they can, like, fuck off to a room and, like, go do something. Like, I I'm I feel like they can be more inventive with their time together. I'm sure some of them are banging each other. Like, there's the human nature
Jagger May:Yes. They can now. Got their they got their junk back when they left out
Alfredo Brown:That's right. In the first half. Ballsack was hanging out.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yep. His ballsack was out. Everything works now. Like, they can they can, like, do stuff. You know?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Mhmm. So it's not terrible. But so, like, it'd be one thing if they were just the cookie. Oh, man. Poor boo.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Poor oh. Mhmm. Only one chick. She's only female. Right?
Alfredo Brown:Fuck. I mean, we don't we well, also, both of us to try to assume that everyone's only into the maybe we got everyone's into everybody.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And maybe she's lesbian. Yeah. We don't even know. Yeah. It could be
Alfredo Brown:You know what? Shame on us.
Jagger May:I love
Matthew Kopfhamer:Shame on
Jagger May:I do love that they brought her blue skin back, and the reason was to cure her eczema.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I was like
Alfredo Brown:Yes. That was great. And then even she admits she's like, it's kinda hot, though. It is sexy. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:I feel like all that's just poking fun at, like, all the the Star Wars fans that are into, like, Ahsoka and then, like yeah. Exactly. Little bit. I'm not gonna lie. I kinda am too.
Alfredo Brown:That seems like a good point to wrap it up before I say something I don't wanna say.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Thank you for sticking with us this long. Arguably too long. Yes. Definitely too long.
Alfredo Brown:Some might say too long. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. Guys, we got a bunch of other cool content coming up. We're gonna be talking about a couple of other Black Mirror episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel and to the podcast.
Alfredo Brown:And, of course, we're also finishing up the finale of daredevil born again. We've got the last of us season two coming up and or season two as well. So make sure you are locked into this show unbinged as always. We wanna thank you guys for watching and listening all the way through for myself, for Jagger, for cough. We'll see you next time.
Alfredo Brown:Adios. Don't I honestly wish I wish that we were recording it. It. I wish we were recording the whole fucking thing. Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:Because that would have been just an awesome end credit scene for us. Cough just figuring out how his camera works.
Jagger May:Figure out my camera. No. What's a frame, though? No. I don't know.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I'm not gonna liek off, like, our last short, I had to, like, cut your face short because I'm like, goddamn, we're
Jagger May:too I was so fucking cloudy.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. I was just like, let's give him a little bit of time. I'll go away. Get
Jagger May:out of here. You fucking pixilian bastard.
Alfredo Brown:You've been recording in 1997 this whole time.
Jagger May:Fucking for, like, five episodes. I didn't even realize. Was just like, why is my camera shitty all of a sudden?
Alfredo Brown:You know what's wild is now you don't have a crazy delay either.
Jagger May:Yeah. Dude, this is I thought
Alfredo Brown:Everything changed with, like, one button. This is the perfect from having the Laura Croft triangle titties to being full on Angelina Jolie right now.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I just wanna say it, like, you are Ocarina of Time, like, in 64.
Jagger May:Simpler times.
