Today's episode of the Unbenched podcast, we're giving you our breakdown and review of the last of us season two episode one. Guys, first things is what's going on with Ellie and Joel, how that relationship is changing. There's lots of impending danger from the stalkers and fireflies. We're gonna be talking about all that and so much more on an older episode of Unbinged starting now.
Samantha Holt:This is your spoiler warning. If you have not watched episode one of the new season two of last of us, stop now. Don't even go play the games. Just stop and go watch the episode because you are about to be spoiled. We're gonna talk about everything.
Samantha Holt:Leave nothing left behind.
Alfredo Brown:The last of us, season two. We're back, and it feels so familiar, but everything feels so damn different. And I love that that's where they're starting out here. Jag, how did you feel about this episode where you brought right back into this world? It kinda feels a little bit like Game of Thrones where every time it came back around, it felt like I was just immersed back into that world.
Jagger May:Better yet, I would say it felt like House of the Dragon season two, kind of, where we had such a long time and a time jump where we had to be reintroduced. Yes. It's the same world, but they are in a different spot in that world, meaning that they're not on the run. Joel seems to be less feral than he was season one. You know, they're a little bit more domestic.
Alfredo Brown:He's an indoor cat now.
Jagger May:Exactly. And that leaves more room when you don't have all these outside factors that Joel and Ellie had for them to have time to hate each other. You know? Like, I feel like you don't have time to say fuck you, dad, when you're getting killed every other day. You know?
Jagger May:So that that was both annoying as me as a viewer to see, but necessary because you gotta realize that Ellie's still a nine year old kid.
Alfredo Brown:Koff, how'd you feel about this one?
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. I really liked how they reset the table, so to speak, with this new community. We saw Jackson a little bit last last season, but now they are fully immersed in it. They're part of that community. Ellie has friends, which I think is huge for her as a character because she was so alone.
Matt Kopfhamer:I mean, she had Joel, but really nobody her own age, no peers that survived until now. So I I think it left us in a really good spot and and set up some really credible threats for this season, not only for the community at large, but also Joel and Ellie individually because of Joel's actions in the finale last season. So I'm I'm really glad where they left it and where they reset the table, and I'm looking forward to the rest of the season. I never played part two of last of us, so this is all brand new material except for what I've been minorly spoiled from Reddit. You've played
Jagger May:a video game? You played the first one?
Matt Kopfhamer:I played the first one. Yes.
Jagger May:You're holding out on me, cough. Like
Matt Kopfhamer:hey, man. I'm a man of many talents, Jagger.
Alfredo Brown:Sam, you've become our HBO designated hitter. You're here for White Lotus. You're here for The Last of Us. Have you played the games?
Samantha Holt:Do you you can't? I I I am familiar with the games. You know, in high school, my friends played them. And I just watched them play the games, and I thought they were really cool zombies. I'm a pretty big fan of zombie movies and that type of trope in general.
Samantha Holt:So this all really fits exactly what I love to watch. And I had started watching Last of Us, but I just recently finished the last, like, four episodes. And when I say last recently, over the last three days. So I am very deep feeling into this world. And for me, I just love the time jump.
Samantha Holt:I feel like it's so perfect for a season two. I think they teed it up really well. What I kind of love is that we leave season one knowing that Abby and the fireflies are gonna hunt them down. And obviously, we now know that they have found them. And that's five years of continued brewing resentment and rage, and it hasn't burned out at all.
Samantha Holt:So to me, it's just episode one feels like a powder keg ready to go off knowing they've got these they've got these people they're looking from. Now we have a stalker level of Cordycep, and now we also have this impending doom of what feels like gonna be a very big hoard coming to the town.
Alfredo Brown:And and that to me is a really good indicator of a good show where just in one episode, you can put this setting where you've got so much impending doom and so many questions and so much that you're looking forward to in a new season. Even something where what I liked about this is that these two characters, Joel and Ellie, should actually be at their most comfortable now. Mhmm. They're back in society. They are living are trying to live a life of normalcy, and it's just not there.
Alfredo Brown:And it's just not there. And what it does is for you as a viewer, you almost start to think, damn, they might never actually reach that normalcy, that happy ending that they want. And now you're just trying to ask, well, what other kind of alternate reality, alternate world can these characters have where they are happy? Because the problems here have devolved down to just basic dad and daughter, 19 year old girl problems. Right?
Alfredo Brown:It's it's not even the big cordyceps thing right now. It's not will you survive? It's just I hate you, and we're we're going to therapy. Like, everything has become they took a show that was initially so unrelatable and made it relatable. And so I love that, and I think we're just gonna keep seeing that evolve and change as the season goes on.
Alfredo Brown:I'm really excited about that.
Jagger May:Rook, we'll talk though. We we say it's just because Ellie's a 19 year old. It seems more than just, like, fuck you, dad. Do you think she knows?
Samantha Holt:Oh, there's a She knows. Yes. I think she knows.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Hundred percent.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. Deep
Alfredo Brown:down. We know. We know when our parents lie to us.
Jagger May:Yeah. But do you think that they talked about it? No. Like, she knows that he's lying, maybe. But, like, do you think that they've talked about it at that point?
Samantha Holt:They have not talked about it. This is five years of not talking about it. And that's where
Matt Kopfhamer:it under wraps. Exactly.
Samantha Holt:It under wraps and to the point of not talking about it where she's moved into the garage. She's, like, trying to separate herself from Joel, but also he's getting desperate enough with it festering that he's going to therapy for it.
Matt Kopfhamer:Not only I believe that it's found sorry. I was gonna say compound that with the fact that she is trying to become her own person. And every time she tries to do something, Joel is there to, like, big brother her or parent her. And she's like, just leave me the fuck alone. I'm 19.
Matt Kopfhamer:Like, I'm an adult. We've all been there ourselves where we go back home after turning 18, and our parents still treat us like we're 12, or at least I did. And it's just like that wrinkles me.
Alfredo Brown:Did you say when you're 18, you came back home? Where'd you go
Matt Kopfhamer:when you were younger? When I went to school. Like, I went to school. Lived on my own.
Alfredo Brown:Okay. So, like, going to college, coming back. Got it. I thought you, like, moved out at 15 and came back at 18, and you're like, guys, I'm here. I'm an adult.
Matt Kopfhamer:But no. But it's it's after you leave home for the first time, then you come back to visit and they're still like, oh, you're my little you're you're still our little baby. And it's like, no, man, I'm an adult now. And on one hand, it's like, well, you're only 19. What the hell do you really know?
Matt Kopfhamer:And on the other hand,
Jagger May:it's like
Matt Kopfhamer:half big. Exactly. But on the other hand, it's like you have to let people grow and make mistakes on their own or they'll never progress as a person. And that's how you get, you know, these arrested development types where they just they continue to be children. So Ellie is in that rock in between a rock and a hard place where she wants to grow up and prove herself, but she's also living in a world which could kill her at any moment, and Joel wants to keep her safe.
Alfredo Brown:There's That I'm glad you said the arrested development thing, Koff, because I don't I don't think it's just an Ellie thing. I think it's a Joel thing. And I think that these characters are trying to grow. And both of them and we're gonna get more into this in just a minute. Both of them have lost their purpose.
Alfredo Brown:They've lost their identity because of this comfortability, because of this I don't wanna call it complacency, but they're trying to fit the square peg into a round hole. Joel went from being this murderer and protector to now, like, he's just going back to being a contractor, essentially. And Ellie went from being almost the the Jesus character of The Last of Us that I'm going to save everyone. I have a greater purpose to, like, oh, by the way, you're just a closeted teen again now who's gonna go sit on the fence. And, like, that's that's literally what you have to like, it was such a good metaphor of them telling her, like, she's on gate duty, and she's like, oh, it's just standing on a fucking fence.
Alfredo Brown:And it's just like, that's that's where she feels her life is right now. So it's just it's it's it's a really relatable thing, and I love that here with last of us season two.
Jagger May:I think it's interesting how you guys find this more relatable, and I find it less relatable. Because as someone who I was put in foster care at, like, five years old. You know? When you're put in even that harshest situation, you're forced to grow up fast, and you tend to be more adult. And I've really thought about this a lot because, like, I'm gonna be quite honest with you.
Jagger May:Ellie is so fucking annoying that it's it's irritating to me. Like, her her and Dina are just so fucking irritated. I'm not the hang on. And it's I I get I get that they are young. But if I had to grow up and I wasn't allowed to play some fuck shit in foster care, is it that this world is just so different?
Jagger May:They are just so desensitized that even being in this, it's much easier to just revert and be a 19 year old in this world than it is for me who is in our world, but in a very much different circumstance and kind of like a different level. Does that make sense? Like, where I where how I grew up, I could see normalcy and see where that is at or quote, unquote normalcy. Their normalcy is just so far gone that being a 19 year old is still possible. They like, am I making sense of how difficult it it is for me to to to grasp?
Jagger May:Like like, it's how she's joking around, how you were gonna go in a building that no one else has been in. A lot of this stuff is condemned. It's just straight up pretty just idiotic, irresponsible shit. You have other people's lives at stake, your life at stake. And even at 19, I find that I'm sorry.
Jagger May:Just, like, incredibly unrealistic. Like, she doesn't deserve any of her responsibility, and I'm sorry. And my friend, he does.
Alfredo Brown:You just finished saying that at 19, you don't know anything. And then now you say it's unrealistic for a 19 year old to not understand the expectations in the weight of her responsibility.
Jagger May:I think normal 19 year olds don't know anything. Like I said, I that's why I gave my example. Me at 19 and other people at 19 were much different because I grew up in foster care and other people didn't. Like, I grew up knowing that no one gave a shit about me, and the only one who was gonna make it is is me. Like, you have that He gave me shit
Alfredo Brown:about you.
Jagger May:Well, now I've I've had therapy I've had therapy, but at, like, 19, you have that. And, like like, to me, Ellie's just kind of a spoiled little, like, little ass. She's a little a little shit ass.
Alfredo Brown:You know? Well, is it is it MacKaw is saying where you get this arrested development where since Joel has taken whether she knows it truly or not, but Joel's kinda taken this decision from her of I can save people where she said, if it comes down to it and the fireflies need me, make sure that it's this isn't for nothing. And he took that from her, and now it's almost like she's stuck in this arrested development of not even being able to become an adult. She's lost all sense of responsibility. She's lost all sense of identity, of purpose.
Alfredo Brown:She's struggling with so much, even like down to just her sexuality, her friendships, or what her daily tasks are. I I get it. Like, I get why Ellie is the way she is, and I think it's it's set that way on purpose because we're going to get some growth from her character.
Jagger May:I guess. I I I I know I'm gonna be in the minority. I just I can't fathom being Ellie. Like, I I can't even remotely put myself in her shoes, and that's a struggle for me. That's not me that's not me criticizing.
Jagger May:Like, I like the show. That's just like she's a character I just don't relate to, and I can accept that.
Samantha Holt:I feel like she
Matt Kopfhamer:has She's reckless because she's impatient.
Samantha Holt:Yes.
Matt Kopfhamer:Like, wants to prove herself, and no one wants to listen to her. So she's gonna do some reckless shit to try to get attention because at 19, that's how you kinda think. Right? Like, if if I'm not if no one's paying attention to me, I'm gonna make a lot of noise, and then they're gonna have to pay attention to me. And that's kinda what she's doing right now.
Samantha Holt:Yeah. And I also feel like there's a level of survival survivor's guilt for Ellie because I do feel like she knows what Joel did. And because she knows he chose her life over everybody else's in in a sense, because if the fireflies were successful, were able to make a cure, then you could save everybody. But he cared more about just saving her life than all of humanity. So for her, there's a probably a level of, well, did I wanna die?
Samantha Holt:No. I didn't wanna die. Or we are we gonna get a flashback where, you know, Marlene explains to her or someone in that hospital room explains to her that she's probably not gonna wake up. So she was already coming to terms with it. Wakes up in the car.
Samantha Holt:I'm alive. And then hearing this story from Joel, she's like, well, nothing that we were dealing with felt like we felt safe. You know, we were with the fireflies. How could something happen to take it all down? I feel like she's feeling a level of survivor's guilt in that he saved her at the sake of literally everybody else.
Samantha Holt:And like you said, Alfredo, removing her purpose.
Matt Kopfhamer:Great point.
Alfredo Brown:There's there's a lot more to to Ellie than what we've talked about here. I think we're gonna get that as the episodes go on. And it's more than just her being a 19 year old girl. It's more than just her coming to terms with her sexuality and how open she can be with that. It's it's even more than just the the the survivor's guilt and the savior thing that's going on here in last of us.
Alfredo Brown:And and we're gonna talk about that because I think the natural bridge to that is her relationship with Joel and what's going on with Joel. But before we do that, I wanna let everybody know we got a giveaway going on. Alright? We are giving away a $200 Amazon gift card, and the way you enter to win that is simply go to Apple or Spotify and leave a five star review on the podcast. Or if you're watching here on YouTube, leave a comment on this this video with a suggestion.
Alfredo Brown:What type of comment you wanna see from, what content you wanna see from us? Make sure you like this video. You obviously subscribe to the Unbinged podcast. Screenshot that. Send it on over to unbingedpod@gmail.com.
Alfredo Brown:That's unbingedpod@gmail.com. We're gonna announce the winner on the May 1 episode where we're talking about Andor season two. And it's not just that. We're we got The Last of Us that's going on right now, Andor season two. We got finale of Daredevil Born Again coming on Wednesday.
Alfredo Brown:We just finished a few different episodes of Black Mirror last week, so we're gonna be talking about a bunch of stuff coming up here. Now, guys, I mentioned the extension from Ellie to Joel. I think we're seeing some growth from Joel, but in so many ways, we're still seeing him kind of stuck in that arrested development that you mentioned, Koff, that even though he's going to therapy and his therapist, Gail, played by Catherine O'Haragh, make gives us this reveal. And he mentions he's never experienced having this older daughter. Right?
Alfredo Brown:He never got to experience a daughter being 19 years old. There is a thing here where I almost wonder if, like, this just happens as you get older where he has created this reality in his head where he saved her. He saved Ellie by not letting the fireflies do what they were doing, and he has become so stubborn to that fact that when Gail, his therapist, asks what happened, he just says, I saved and that's it. He doesn't want to let this bubble up. Is Joel progressing, or is Joel regressing and getting stuck?
Samantha Holt:I feel like he's regressing and getting stuck Yeah. By not accepting, you know, his shortcomings. In a way, in that moment with with Catherine O'Hara and having that therapy moment of her saying, you know, you killed my husband. And he's just kind of taking that. But then when she says, okay.
Samantha Holt:Now speak your truth. He's still stubborn and not wanting to speak it out loud. He it's more like he's more happy and comfortable with accepting all of his mercenary murders and shortcomings there and all those decisions he made because that that that he can live with. But he
Alfredo Brown:can't live with the other man thing to be totally cool with murdering a bunch of people, but not cool with, like, just saying emotions truly feel at therapy.
Samantha Holt:Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Kopfhamer:Men would rather kill 30 people than go to therapy.
Jagger May:I agree. I mean, that's
Samantha Holt:Based on who I've dated, I agree with that.
Jagger May:Oh, well.
Alfredo Brown:I got nothing.
Samantha Holt:Yeah. That's literally the house.
Jagger May:I I get it, man. That's
Alfredo Brown:That's a whole different pod, Sam. That's a whole different pod.
Samantha Holt:Just saying, you know, there's there's plenty of fish in the sea or where there's a lot of good yeah. It's just not this is a messy sea. Fish are gross out here.
Alfredo Brown:Fish are gross out here.
Jagger May:Yeah. I just I mean, I think I think it's definitely and it's one of those things where it gets worse the longer that you don't talk about it. You know? It's kinda like how I forget Like an infection? Yeah.
Jagger May:Oh.
Matt Kopfhamer:It's an infection. And
Jagger May:It's kinda like how I forget to tell my dad happy birthday, and then it's like, shit. I forgot. And then, like
Alfredo Brown:That's the only reason I keep Facebook.
Jagger May:Yeah. It it I just it gets weirder the longer I do it. And it's like, well, now I'm just a piece of shit because I didn't say it earlier. And then it just kind
Alfredo Brown:of What's the window on that?
Samantha Holt:What's the window on that? Like, how
Matt Kopfhamer:Three days. Yeah. Three days.
Jagger May:With my Three days?
Alfredo Brown:Three days. Christ.
Samantha Holt:I think the next day you get emulated. And after that, then you're just you have to say nothing and or just, like, just apologize. You're like, I'm so sorry. I forgot your birthday. There's no happy belated birthday.
Samantha Holt:Two days later.
Alfredo Brown:Twenty four hours is like, ah, so sorry. I thought I sent I pressed send on the text, or I I couldn't get a moment to give you a call. Three days is crazy.
Jagger May:I've done it, and I've done it a lot.
Samantha Holt:I've done it a lot. I've done it I've done it a lot. I'm doing it right now.
Jagger May:Yeah. It's just like
Alfredo Brown:It acts like it's been three years.
Jagger May:I'm a known piece of shit when it comes to stuff like that. Like, it's like like, I I I really suck. I'm like a good person, but, like, I can't remember a date to save my life. So I'm sorry, guys.
Matt Kopfhamer:Kinda going back to Joel and and kinda being stuck in in his own headspace, I think really goes back to, like, what you were saying. He lost his purpose. Like, in season one, he had one goal. Get Ellie to the fireflies. Keep her safe on the way.
Matt Kopfhamer:She's cargo. I'm gonna be a delivery guy. He could focus on just the next step. Whereas now he's in a he's in a a safe community, as safe as as it can be in this world, and he's in a a role of not only leadership, but respect. And I think he feels almost a little bit like a a little bit of an impostor syndrome because he's like, all these people look up to me.
Matt Kopfhamer:They they value my opinion, but I'm deep down a horrible piece of shit because I murdered a swath of people and basically condemned humanity. Yeah. So he is
Alfredo Brown:been there at that point.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. He is stuck in his own self loathing while everyone around him is like, Joel, you're so great. You're so great. And now we're gonna see the consequences of his actions from last season in the form of Abby and the remnants of the fireflies coming to get his ass. So whether they actually do, whether they wreck shitting Jackson because of that or whether they come to to view his point of view as correct, which I don't think is gonna happen, that's all gonna come to a head this season.
Matt Kopfhamer:He's gonna have to face that head on whether he likes it or not. So the fact that he is running away from confronting that in his therapy session, I think, is huge foreshadowing for either we're gonna get a big breakthrough from him at some point emotionally, or he's going to continue to go down that dark fuck shit path and and just wreck shit for his community inadvertently.
Alfredo Brown:Jack, you're muted, buddy.
Jagger May:To be honest, I don't think it's just that he's gonna wreck his community. It's just the community's already going to get wrecked. We already see that with the fireflies coming in. We already see that with the cordyceps coming in. We already know that they have yeah.
Jagger May:They already have stalkers now.
Alfredo Brown:You, Seth.
Jagger May:Yeah. The well, the the the stalkers are are a big deal just because they can actually hunt now. So Yeah. It's more of this is our like, I feel like Joel already lost his shot. This episode was his chance to make things right on his own terms.
Jagger May:And then pretty soon, we're gonna have Abby and all the fireflies coming down, and they're gonna be like, well, why are you mad at me? Well well, you killed all the fireflies, and here's why. I will say they don't believe it either. They don't believe that Ellie is immune or something, so that might be interesting. It's just the secret can't be kept tight anymore, and I don't know when they're gonna have time, but I think that we're gonna go back to everything's shitty and our feelings don't matter as much.
Jagger May:So things are gonna come out, and then we can deal with it later. So if anything, I'm more concerned about if this conflict that they have coming ends in season two, are they still able to move on and and be together? Because this is all gonna come out, and they're gonna be busy, and they won't be able to talk about it. And then when all the killing's done, you're just left sitting with your own guilt.
Alfredo Brown:Well, I think that's kind of the conflict that we as viewers are looking forward to in a in a kinda weird sick way. Like, that's what we need. We already know that there's that there's the stalkers, which, by the way, I see the stalkers as something that is magnifying the change or the the lack of change in our characters is that while they have become static and their whole community there in Wyoming in Jackson has sort of devolved back into normalcy of like we're doing New Year's dances and, I'm back to just playing guitar on my front porch and, you know, going to therapy. This evolution of the cordyceps coming turning into a stalker and kind of just showing how it's just underneath. It's buried.
Alfredo Brown:It's in that pipe. There's it's such a good imagery to show, like, how everything has changed around them. And it's funny. It's it kinda coincides. It's adjacent to Joel being worried about so many people coming into their community and the lack of resources.
Alfredo Brown:And, like, while he's worried about one thing, it's actually the hidden thing that he's not seeing because he's so focused on the wrong thing. That's what I I think is just gonna be so interesting to me is not even when does Ellie find out and how does that confrontation happen. It's gonna be how Joel and Ellie balance it, Jags. So I actually like what you're talking about. I don't even know if we're going to get that resolution, but I'm gonna be very intrigued to see how they balance it all.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah.
Matt Kopfhamer:And then jump off what you're saying, Alfredo. I like how the problem he's most worried about is his relationship with Ellie. That's his main focus. He's missing the subtle hints of what the real problem is. Because when Dina comes in, he's like, hey.
Matt Kopfhamer:The pipe's full of full of roots and shit. What do we do? He's like, oh, you just crack it, fill it, and then run it, you know, get the roots out and then fill it. It'll be fine. So he's almost inadvertently ignoring this humongous problem because he he's so focused on his own emotional state and what's going on with his daughter and Ellie that he cannot see the forest for the trees.
Matt Kopfhamer:And so I think that's
Alfredo Brown:years ago would have heard roots and And when, like Yes.
Matt Kopfhamer:Burn it out. Burn it out. Get it. Yep.
Samantha Holt:Kill it
Matt Kopfhamer:right known right away. Yep. Yeah.
Jagger May:So it's like they're they're getting soft because, like, again, like, I told you guys pre show. I was like, as soon as, like especially in Wyoming. I live in Colorado. I'm like, right here where most of this is set up. It's all clay pipes.
Jagger May:I have a problem in my own current house. We had to swap out clay pipes in there, and roots will get in there. As soon as they did it, I'm like, do you want cordyceps? Cause that's how you get cordyceps in there. Because like like, they they were just so casual about the roots.
Jagger May:I'm like, man, you have a plant essentially that is killing you, or technically it's a fungi, and no one is alarmed that there's a root system that leads side of your city in here or
Alfredo Brown:And he or this season one, how it's like it's all connected. It's a hive mind. You step on one thing here. It's going to affect it miles away.
Samantha Holt:Yep. And and
Alfredo Brown:it's it's honestly, it's what it's doing is it's really showing that the evolution of their city, their everything that they are doing there. And it continues to magnify the fact that these characters don't have their identity without their identity, without their purpose. They're just continuing to devolve, and that's just such a damn relatable thing to people that aren't in a post apocalyptic world.
Jagger May:That's a short call. I wanna call back I'm sorry. I wanna call back to, like, we just talked about Black Mirror and the plaything episode. His whole rant about humanity you wanna talk about devolving? This it's the buggy code that's in humans.
Jagger May:And I just I I left this episode just feeling so disappointed because I get Abby's had five years. And this goes back to, like like, maybe therapists really are more valuable than we think. You have five years, so you're gonna travel to Wyoming in the snow just to kill people when humanity's on the brink of destruction. How fucking stupid are you and selfish are you actually? You're gonna kill one man about this, and you you technically have a terrorist organization, essentially.
Jagger May:You know?
Alfredo Brown:How loyal are these people walking with her?
Jagger May:That's that's that was actually my point. It's like Abby is one thing. Straight up, if I'm in Abby's crew, I'm like, we're not gonna do this. This sucks. This is unfortunate, but this is war.
Jagger May:We we are in a war, and we are on one side of this, and this guy got kidnapped and killed everyone with a kid probably for a fucking reason. It just it's hard these are concepts that are hard for me to wrap my head around.
Alfredo Brown:I can't even sit down and record a podcast about a show I didn't like or a show I don't wanna watch. Imagine doing this shit for five years living uncomfortably walking across The United States looking for a guy you don't know, but all you know is he's got a scar and he's kinda handsome, and he might be called Joe or Joel. Fuck that.
Matt Kopfhamer:No. But here's the thing. You you guys are we talked about it previously. Like, this is their purpose. On a day to day basis, they have they have made this their galvanized purpose, and that's what drives them forward.
Matt Kopfhamer:So they're willing to to plow through the snow and walk across the entire country to get to this one community where there might be the guy they're looking for.
Alfredo Brown:Because I get that it's Abby's purpose. It's I know that I get that it's
Matt Kopfhamer:the other people's purpose. It is. They were all part of the Fireflies. He killed all of their friends and family. It wasn't just Abby's dad that died.
Matt Kopfhamer:It was all of their friends and family that he murdered in cold blood to save Ellie. So they are all fucking pissed. They are all furious that this one guy took out their entire crew. And what it really reminded me of, I don't know if any of you have ever read the book, I Am Legend. Ignore the movie.
Matt Kopfhamer:The movie is trash. But the book Movie is excellent. The whole the book point is that off. Goddamn it, Alfredo. The book point is that the main character has been on his own for so long hunting the creatures, the vamp whatever you wanna call them, that he literally transitions from the protagonist to the antagonist by the end of the book because he realized from a perspective standpoint, he is now the monster.
Matt Kopfhamer:He is now the the the scary storytime monster that these these creatures are telling their kids. And so that is what Joel has become for the fireflies. He has become their literal monster. Even though they are facing cordyceps on a daily basis, those are nothing in comparison to this one bastard who killed their entire world, and that's what is driving them forward even five years later.
Jagger May:Shout out to watchmen. The entire world is on the Black freighter right now. That's the that's the whole plot. Like like, where you think you're the hero, and then you're just the monster at the end of it. So Bingo.
Samantha Holt:I think it's also just coming back to the fact that I think you mentioned it earlier, Alfredo. Like, the Cordyceps have been able to evolve. Like, they are showing signs of evolution. Now we have stalkers. They're finding other ways to continue to not only survive, but grow.
Samantha Holt:And I think that growth underlying and that humans are unable to continue to grow or to evolve no matter their circumstance. Abby can't grow or evolve. Joel can't grow or evolve. Ellie can't either. This society really isn't either.
Samantha Holt:All reverting back to past bad habits, bigotry, all these things that, you know, just are entrenched in us and we have this inability to grow and move forward where you think maybe there's gonna be that regretful moment of, you know, between them all meeting of we can't get past this. We're only in survival mode that Joel realizes. Or maybe there's some level of realization where had he allowed, you know, Ellie to fulfill her purpose, then maybe she would actually have saved everyone and the humans would have been able to evolve. But now you've removed that. Is there even another doctor out there that can do what this one did that Joel shot?
Alfredo Brown:So I wanna ask this question. And and, Sam, I wanna ask this of you. Is there actually a true protagonist in this show? And is this one of the shows that maybe doesn't need a character to be a protagonist? Because, like, what Koff was saying is that there's so much of it is perspective.
Alfredo Brown:Right? You could sit here and say, I get Ellie's perspective. I get Joel's perspective. I get Abby's perspective. Hell, you could even just say, you know what?
Alfredo Brown:The the stalkers and cordyceps, like, they're not bad people. They just got infected. Like, there's so many different ways you can go in this. Does this show need a true protagonist to be successful? Because right now, I don't know that it does.
Jagger May:Right now, I have a hard time seeing how the cordyceps are the antagonist. I know this is crazy, but, like, we are just so fucking idiotic as a species. Like, it's just it's just dumb. Like, it's it and and I'm not saying that because of show. I'm critiquing literally our race because the show does a good job just putting a black light on the hotel room with with that is the human psyche in here.
Jagger May:It's like you said, like, I could see all their points of views. Humanity is at the brink of extinction. None of your feelings matter. It is the only thing that matters is cooperation. It's like at the end of the day.
Jagger May:And and that's that's why I keep saying we're all in the black freighter, man. Like, it's I'm not I'm not trying to be heartless and that crazy dude that's like, well, humanity just needs to go away, and I'm poison ivy and saying that plants just need to take us over. That's not what I'm saying, but I'm kinda saying it a little bit.
Alfredo Brown:You you cosplaying as poison ivy is a hell of an image.
Samantha Holt:Why did you picture that?
Jagger May:I I didn't I didn't need for him to do that, Sam, so I regret even bringing up some analogy.
Samantha Holt:Society. Society?
Alfredo Brown:You're just
Samantha Holt:gonna blame society? Didn't know that seems like it works
Alfredo Brown:for everyone else. Also, Jack, great job there intercepting the pass to Sam. Sam, I wanna hear I I wanna hear your thoughts on this. Because, like, where where do you sit with, do we have a real protagonist? Is there something that you're rooting for?
Alfredo Brown:Even if the story isn't intentionally doing that, is there something that you're rooting for?
Samantha Holt:I feel like you're rooting for growth. And whether that is from the Cordyceps or you're rooting for that for a character, I think all of us have certain levels of, you know, attachment to Joel, to Ellie, to different characters here. And I think something that I noticed having just, you know, obviously finished season one, so close to starting season two, was anyone that was out for revenge and just seeking a pound of flesh to exile, they did not meet a positive ending. And I feel like that's gonna be something that continues into season two of perspective and your morals. I think all of that is going to come to light and come to a head of, like, if this is your purpose, if your purpose is just to continue to inflict pain on others, then nothing good is gonna come of that.
Matt Kopfhamer:Great point.
Samantha Holt:Right now,
Matt Kopfhamer:is is
Alfredo Brown:this show better than what we got from Walking Dead, cough? Because I I know there's gonna be many similarities.
Matt Kopfhamer:Thousand times better.
Jagger May:So much We are so low, dog. I wanna get this out there.
Alfredo Brown:I don't want to get this out there.
Matt Kopfhamer:I I wanna answer your question about the protagonist. My protagonist is Dina now. I want her to thrive.
Alfredo Brown:Oh, I love her.
Matt Kopfhamer:Whatever happens to Dina, I will fucking riot because she is
Alfredo Brown:a pure, innocent totally gonna die.
Samantha Holt:She's totally gonna die. Everyone that everyone her love is gonna die.
Alfredo Brown:Screams she's going to die.
Samantha Holt:Yes. She's too funny.
Matt Kopfhamer:Like
Samantha Holt:She's too fun. She's gonna end up dying. We that's big
Matt Kopfhamer:I'm
Samantha Holt:so sorry. We like her, we know she's gonna die. Yeah.
Matt Kopfhamer:Like, when she comes in Kelly's band
Alfredo Brown:aid right now. She's definitely gonna die.
Samantha Holt:She's probably abandoned until they can repair.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. But I'm god. When she, like, literally just sits down with Joel, it's like, hey. So teach me how to do this thing. And he, like, she disarms him so quickly.
Matt Kopfhamer:And then she hits him with, so what's going on with Ellie? And he's like, what? And he literally is so disarmed that he, starts to answer truthfully, which Catherine O'Hare wasn't able to do in their therapy session. So I think this is
Jagger May:a character that's fucking drunk asshole. Like, get like, that was just bad therapy. I wish Well, I I a cousin. Then don't do the session, Catherine. Okay?
Jagger May:Gail, don't do the fucking session.
Matt Kopfhamer:I'll do
Jagger May:the fucking I'll session anymore. Get the fuck out of here. I like, maybe I need to be more forgiving of people around here. It just because I I guess I will say after all my depressive mulling, it's just I think that Joel is my protagonist because I understand him the most. I get why he hasn't said anything.
Jagger May:I get I get why he did what he did for Ellie. If anything, I think Joel is the one who was he did something very violent, but I think he did it for the most wholesome reason, and he's just trying to be a better person. I think the only one who's actively trying to be a better pulse person is Joel. The and that's why I'll root for him. Ellie's not actively trying to be a better person.
Jagger May:Clearly, Abby doesn't give a fuck about being a person anymore. You know?
Matt Kopfhamer:But you know what they say, Jagger, is the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And, unfortunately, that's what Joel did, was he paved his own road to hell by doing the most violent fuck shit he could do in the finale. And now we're gonna see those consequences either come to a head or somehow he may be able to look see it escape them, but I don't think that's this type of show.
Alfredo Brown:But but that moment for him, for Joel where he makes that decision with by the which, by way, I'm I'm curious if all of us would make that same decision because I kinda think I would too. Like, I would I would take her like, I think there's a lot more conversation that he has to have with her prior to this because he doesn't really know the Fireflies. All he really knows of them is that they are this Jack, you kinda called them a terrorist organization. Like, we
Jagger May:really They're fucking terrorists,
Alfredo Brown:dude. Like, whatever we want.
Jagger May:They're right. They're right. But they're terror. Like, I know that's weird, but, like, like, Fedra, I'm like, I'm not about Fedra. They can get fucked.
Jagger May:But, like, technically, you are a terrorist, dude. Like, it's I would join them. I would like I told Amy straight up. But, yeah, I'd be a terrorist, like, ASAP Rocky Wouldn't even be quote. I'd be like, fuck And now we're
Matt Kopfhamer:all in the list. Thanks, Jagger.
Alfredo Brown:And demonetized. Thank you.
Jagger May:Well, I okay. I beat apocalyptic terrorist,
Alfredo Brown:guys. Not There.
Matt Kopfhamer:All freedom fighters, Jack. Freedom fighters, man. Okay.
Alfredo Brown:It's Seth already did like you, Jack. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. To me, Seth is the true antagonist of this whole show.
Jagger May:It's true. It's just like It's true. Do do we have he's just like, this is a church. I'm like, do you see god around, dog?
Samantha Holt:God God's gonna kill me with a
Alfredo Brown:fucking cricket the you know, I I thought he was just saying easy on the PDA, and I was like, okay.
Matt Kopfhamer:Get it.
Alfredo Brown:You know? Family event. Then he drops the d word on him, and I was like, oh, you deserve The hard deserve this, homie.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. It was a hard beat. Ironic. So
Jagger May:But, yeah, it was a
Alfredo Brown:little it was a little Go, Koff. Go.
Matt Kopfhamer:I was gonna say it was a little weird when, like, if you're watching the dance scene, beautifully shot, like, wonderful emotion between the two characters. But in the background, they're singing about Jesus, and I'm like, are they gonna make out to the Jesus song? Because that's super weird. And then they did.
Samantha Holt:God love.
Matt Kopfhamer:And then stuff called them out. God is love. Gotta you gotta leave enough room for the holy spirit, though, in between.
Alfredo Brown:Six inches. That's that's what I was told at at
Matt Kopfhamer:That's the rules.
Alfredo Brown:School. Just letting you know. Mhmm. Yeah. You know what?
Alfredo Brown:And it's funny. We we barely touched on this character, Dina, but she was such honestly, legitimately, for multiple reasons for me, just an entrancing character. One, Isabella Merced, just captivating when she's on screen. She's beautiful. But then her character is so charismatic.
Alfredo Brown:And I I want to get this perspective from Sam because, Sam, I feel like Dina actually becomes the most dangerous character in this whole thing because we've already seen she's kind of like she's been dating around town. She kind of already knows that that Ellie has these feelings for her. She kinda has Joel wrapped around her finger. This almost seems like the girl who or the person who I don't wanna say she plays it dumb, but she seems like she's got the whole town wrapped around her finger, she kinda just does whatever she wants. We see in that that scene where she and Ellie are about to go into that, what we think, abandoned grocery store.
Alfredo Brown:She's a smart one. She stops and thinks. And honestly, like, there's a small part of me that's like, she might she might be plotting or conniving a little bit. Like, she's almost too smart and too manipulative for her own good. It's hard to keep someone good when they're that, I guess, skilled in those things.
Jagger May:That's some flighty hot girl
Samantha Holt:shit, Alfredo. Before.
Jagger May:I I don't know, man.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Jack Jack just stays getting in front of the the pick and roll for Sam.
Matt Kopfhamer:Dude is
Samantha Holt:It's fun. No. I I my first thought is, like, I did not get conniving from Dinette. You know, I don't
Alfredo Brown:get that vibe, but, like, I think I feel like get there.
Jagger May:I feel
Samantha Holt:like you're reaching for that. I just wanna know who hurt you that made you feel like just because that they're so liked by everybody that they're out to then get everybody. This feels like I don't know. Could be more maybe think that I I don't know. I disagree with you.
Samantha Holt:I feel like she's gonna end up being this bridge character that brings healing. And, I mean, I feel like we because we all like her. We know she's gonna end up dying at some point.
Alfredo Brown:But Mhmm.
Samantha Holt:I think she through her being a bridge to Joel to like you brought up earlier, she was able to crack him to at least get something out quicker than Gale was. And the whole point of him going to see Gale is to try and to uncover stuff. And I think that she's also gonna be this connection with Ellie that allows her to find growth and to find a new purpose and to find more things to look forward to. And because she's gonna end up being this person that brings them back together when she end up ends up going, it's gonna end up being healing for Ellie and for Joel to then realize, you know, maybe if this hadn't happened, this hadn't happened, then Dina would still be here, something like that. And then they can move forward together and, again, continue to grow.
Samantha Holt:But I feel like she's such a pivotal character to bring us further into season two. It's like every like you we've been talking about everyone's been stuck. Everyone's been stuck in different points of the town. And I feel like Dina's this hook that's gonna draw the story forward and to try to progress things to try and find some moral compass.
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. She's a she's a catalyst for the story, for growth, like you were mentioning, for both Joel and Ellie. And whether what worried me the most is that that scene where they kiss on the dance floor is she admits she's, like, high on she's high. And so to me, is she truly letting her feelings for Ellie come through, or is she just high and flirty and the environment causes this? And so it's an infatuation.
Matt Kopfhamer:And inadvertently, she may hurt Ellie because the the feelings may not really be there, and she was just in the moment. And that's what I worried about in that scene. I was like, oh.
Alfredo Brown:That's that's
Matt Kopfhamer:what I Literally. Yeah. Ellie Ellie, literally in her journal, five minutes prior, was writing, don't fuck this up. Don't fuck this up. Don't fuck this up because she wants that friendship with Dina more than than she wants just a fling.
Matt Kopfhamer:So what I worry about is Dina may view this as a fling with a friend, whereas Ellie's like, no. I'm I am deep in these trenches of love. And if if if you don't reciprocate, I'm gonna crash out real, real hard.
Samantha Holt:Sure. But we did get a tiny clip of, you know, the rest of the season, and we do hear Dina say, I'll go wherever you go. And literally this level of wanting to follow each other, and they're now gonna go on this together. So I feel like it's almost setting us up for we're gonna get several episodes of, you know, Dina and Ellie trying to make it on their own, maybe after the horde comes and Joel's not there and trying to go forward. I feel like we're gonna keep seeing them go deeper and deeper into this friendship and situationship Relationship.
Samantha Holt:If you Yeah. Dina We'll see how it goes.
Alfredo Brown:Dina feels like the like the window shopping character. Like, they put the best character out front for for all of us. Like, even Joel is like, man, I kinda wish Ellie was more like Dina. I'm connecting with her. And Ellie is connecting with Dina everywhere they go.
Alfredo Brown:And then even I already forget the guy's name, but, like, the other guy was just like, you know, we're probably not getting back together. Like, he misses her. And she's she's at that forefront. I think they're making us care most about this character. And when shows do that
Samantha Holt:They kill them. They're not
Alfredo Brown:making this world.
Samantha Holt:They kill them.
Alfredo Brown:So Jack, it sounds like your cat wants us to finish this podcast.
Jagger May:Well, it's never mind. I just I'm gonna be honest. I don't give a shit about Dina, like like that, their relationship. Okay. Like no.
Jagger May:It's not what I'm that's not what I meant. It's like, we didn't even ask the real question. What is the everyone else gonna think when Joel when they find out that Joel could've had a cure and he didn't do anything? Like, didn't even talk about that. Like Yeah.
Matt Kopfhamer:I think it's gonna be long.
Alfredo Brown:Like a foreshadowing already with the way Ellie embarrassed Joel there at the party of, like, telling him I don't fucking need you. Well, is that not just kind of the appetizer of what can happen, Jack, like what you're saying? I don't think it's gonna be taken well.
Jagger May:No. Not at all. I was just like like like, all this stuff was like, what's gonna happen with Dina and blah blah blah? She's gonna fucking die, and none of their relationships are probably gonna matter. I'm sorry, dude.
Jagger May:Like like, I'm not trying to be depressed. It matters
Alfredo Brown:to me. Doug's like, don't watch
Jagger May:the rest of the not trying to be depressed. There's, like, a whole plot that's going on. You know?
Matt Kopfhamer:I feel like Elena and Black Widow. The relationship was real to me. Damn it.
Alfredo Brown:Okay. I think think Jack needs to go take a walk, get some sunshine on his face this morning.
Matt Kopfhamer:Go touch some grass, bro.
Jagger May:Touch some grass.
Alfredo Brown:No. He'll be fine. He'll be fine. Guys, I think that's gonna be a wrap for us. We got so much more to do with the last of us season two.
Alfredo Brown:We're gonna be back again every single Monday as the season goes on. And, later this week, on Wednesday, we got the finale of daredevil born again. Saturday, we're gonna be giving you Andor season two episodes one through three. And last week, we we just did a couple episodes of Black Mirror season seven. So we've got a whole bunch of content coming your way.
Alfredo Brown:Like I mentioned, we are doing a giveaway. We've got that $200 Amazon gift card. So make sure you leave a five star review on Apple or Spotify or leave a comment here on the YouTube video with suggestions for what type of content you wanna see next from us. Screenshot that, send it on over to unbenchedpod@Gmail.com. We're gonna announce the winner on the May 1 episode.
Alfredo Brown:As always, I wanna thank you guys for watching or listening all the way through for myself, for Sam, for Jagger, for Koff. We'll see you next time. I have so many small inconveniences in my house because I just won't like, if I come across that little hurdle, I'm like,
Samantha Holt:you know what?
Alfredo Brown:This is this is how I live.
Samantha Holt:It's not something I can force with, like, a hammer or, like, a screwdriver, then I'm just like, I'm not doing it.
Alfredo Brown:I'm a I'm a duct tape and super glue aficionado. But, like, if I have to do real things where it requires me to go to Home Depot more than once, I'm I'm probably not doing it.
Samantha Holt:I actually love
Jagger May:that shit. Contracting. You never last.
Alfredo Brown:No shit, Jagger. That's yeah. Like, telling me I wouldn't last in the NBA. There's just things I'm not fucking built
Samantha Holt:for, man. Does that mean you wouldn't last in The Last of Us? Hey, o.
Matt Kopfhamer:I'd be alright. I'd one of the first dead.
Alfredo Brown:Joel Joel is, like, what? Head contractor now?
Matt Kopfhamer:Yeah. He's boss of all things. That's that's my title for him.
Jagger May:He's boss of talked about that. She's like, I would have a job. There's useful therapists. I'm like, yeah. After an society has been established, after, I'm
Samantha Holt:Talk about your feelings.
Jagger May:It's like, they suck. They're they're bad.
Matt Kopfhamer:Watch contractor
Alfredo Brown:Not good. On the daily.
Jagger May:The fur like, my contractor, like, red flag went off when they said, we have clay pipes and there's roots in them. And I was just like, mm-mm. Burn them out.
Samantha Holt:I was
Jagger May:like, there's mushrooms in there because, like, I have clay pipes problem here. I was just like, y'all are fucked now,
Alfredo Brown:dawg. Oh Immediately. Jack felt like any lawyer watching Law and Order, they're like, oh, they got them now. They got them It
Jagger May:like first ten minutes and I'm like, well, that's how they get you.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah.
