On today's episode of the unbinged podcast, we're giving you our breakdown and review of Andor season two episodes one through three. And, well, Cassie and Andor is already a very different dude here in season two. Mon Mothma's crashing out. She's gone full Coachella on spring break mode. It's just it's not pretty.
Alfredo Brown:And then the show itself has just gone into deeper and darker lengths than Star Wars really ever has with that scene, and you know which one I mean. And then I I just gotta say it, guys. There's a character who has to be considered a close second to worst villain in the entire galaxy. All that and more on an old episode of Unbinged starting.
Matthew Kopfhamer:This is your one and only spoiler warning for Andor seasons one and two because we can't talk about it without spoiling it. If you haven't seen all three episodes of the premiere, now's your chance to pause and go back and catch up. Because, again, we're reviewing and breaking it down. We have to spoil it.
Alfredo Brown:Okay. Jag, biggest takeaway from this series so far because people are talking, and there
Matthew Kopfhamer:are some
Alfredo Brown:very strong opinions about this show. Season two of Vandor so far looks pretty good.
Jagger May:Yeah. I think it's picked up right where it left off. I'm gonna be honest. I think I even slept on season one of Andor because I just recently did the rewatch to get myself ready. And I just I miss things in it and and the level of depth and really showing not just the hero side, because I think Star Wars is big on being a hero.
Jagger May:They don't show the actual grimy shit, the real shit that and sacrifice it takes to do a rebellion to get info. And we never really seen that. And I think a lot of people are shocked, at seeing that. And I think being a little bit more grounded and I don't mean grounded like, we're gonna make him more grounded, Batman, blah blah blah. I mean, grounded and, again, showing the reality of what it takes to be a spy in the rebellion and trying to take down a monolith like the empire.
Jagger May:And I think it's just pretty beautiful to see. And a lot of people who can't handle that, I'm sorry, man. Maybe it's a little bit time to grow up. Because I feel like this is the the most adult Star Wars we've ever had.
Alfredo Brown:It this kind of already got started with Rogue One. Like, if you saw Rogue One and you saw everyone die for something they believed in, and then you come and watch this and you're not on that same page, I'm I'm sorry. I don't quite know what you expected. And it's something that Star Wars has kind of always glossed over. You even go to just episode four, A New Hope, when they're talking about how they got the Death Star plans, and Mon Motham was like, many Bothans died to bring us this information, and that's it.
Alfredo Brown:And it's just like they just glossed over the fact that tons of people died to get them info. Now we actually get to see that. So, like, that's I I appreciate that so much. Koff, I know you feel a certain way about this show as well because you've you've just been in on it since day one.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. What I really love about this show is that they're not afraid to get their hands dirty like yours like you guys were talking about. They're not afraid to show our, quote, unquote, protagonist and hero of the store story, Cassian Andor, straight up kill people in cold blood because they're in his way. He like, the guy guarding the the tie I'm not quite sure which prototype this is. An advantage, a defender, an interceptor.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I'm not sure. But the guy guarding it when he's trying to escape, he just shoots him without a without a word. Just shoots him, tosses the body, and gets out because the mission is more important than any personal feelings. And we see that again with Val and her her girlfriend, for lack of a better term, when they see each other after not seeing each other for a year potentially. And they know we can't have our little moment together again because the mission comes first.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And I'm really loving, especially this first arc, how Tony Gilroy wrote and edited the jumping back and forth between the the wedding and this this grand opulent spectacle on on Sean on on the Mon Mothma home planet versus Chandrale. Cut to, like, San Diego. Coachella? Yep. Coachella.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Then we cut to, like, Bix and Brassa and and Willem all on this planet where they're in the dirt, they're in the grind harvesting, and they're worried about, are we gonna get picked up as these non Visa, like, you know, immigrants essentially versus the the pressures of this grand opulent wedding and just cutting back and forth between those was such a brilliant choice in my opinion because it really shows how you have these differences. It's a vast universe, and you have these differences in not only society, but level of wealth disparity and the pressures associated with all those things. So I am once again blown away with how in-depth and how well written this show is.
Jagger May:And to to expand on that point about the the wealth, it really felt like Hunger Games when they go to the capital sometimes. And you you have our homie there that's like finance and all this and going broke, and he's like, we got a a fucking statue. Like like like, what what are we doing here? And you wanna talk about a crash out, you know, like, a homie, not like, he literally sacrificed his wife, his wealth, now his life. Because you know what?
Jagger May:You know, Sipta's gonna give him the old click clack. You know? Just it's pretty fucking sad. Injector button.
Alfredo Brown:Injecto, Sedo cuts. Just fast and furious to him. Stay in your
Jagger May:tongue, Sipta. Yeah. I
Matthew Kopfhamer:was waiting for it.
Jagger May:Oh, man. I do not mean to downplay the how sad that is, but, like, it it's straight up, like, they're they're good fellow. They're they're doing the good fellows on them, and it sucks. Mhmm.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And then to and then to compare that to the scene where Bix is literally fighting for her life and her her bodily autonomy because you have the lieutenant who has just a little bit of power, but he has the power to fuck her up and fuck her life up if she doesn't comply. And so to see that in a star wars show, I know it's shocking for some viewers, but that's real life. Like, that that happens all the time where you have somebody in a position of power, and they can utilize that for their own gain. And sometimes that goes in a really gross way and good for Biggs for standing up for herself and and not allowing him to just run rough shot over her bodily autonomy.
Alfredo Brown:So it's wild. Bring up that scene. I I wanna ask this because there are people out in the zeitgeist right now that feel like Star Wars, and Tony Gilroy took that scene too far. Hashtag not my Star Wars. Right?
Alfredo Brown:Star Wars is is built on heroes and and hope and the galaxy, being filled with all these magical and fantastical beings. But like I said, for years and years and years, we have created this empire that is so evil, yet we've chosen to ignore the evil. We're just like, ah, they're inherently bad. Right? Like, they all wear black.
Alfredo Brown:They're in this big, circle thing British. Off a planet. But you don't actually have they're British. They're slender. They've got a lot of gel in the hair.
Alfredo Brown:You know? Those things. Angles. Yeah. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:By the way, I've been told many times, I've got a villain look, and that it made me feel very, very, very bad about myself.
Jagger May:Very handsome villain. But you know?
Alfredo Brown:Thanks, man. Hey. Thanks, pal. But you know what? It's like, this reminds me back to there's a small scene in Kenobi, which whatever the opinions are on the show, I enjoyed it.
Alfredo Brown:But there's a scene there where Vader is walking and just kills a kid like it was nothing. And we never really saw Vader get to that level of evil. Right? Like, you see it most I mean, you did. Right?
Alfredo Brown:Order 66. But not in that way where he just kinda just like
Matthew Kopfhamer:master Anakin?
Alfredo Brown:But you never see it. Right? Like, you see it on a hologram. Like, in Kenobi, this is a time where he's just like, done. And when you're watching this, you're reminded of how evil the empire really is and how evil oppression truly is and how it affects different people in different ways.
Alfredo Brown:That it's not just affecting the poor. It's not just affecting the, quote, illegal aliens on this planet. It's affecting everyone, but it still affects them in different ways. And so the Bicks scene, right now, a lot of people are complaining that they've gone too far. Do you guys think and, Kaf, I'll start with you.
Alfredo Brown:Do you think the scene went too far? What would you have done with it?
Matthew Kopfhamer:I think I don't think it went too far. I I think they they rode that line of uncomfortability right to the edge, and and they they kept us from going completely over. Like, this, at the end of the day, this is not an HBO show. This is still a Disney plus show. So while they are dealing with some heavy topics and some mature topics because this is the most adult Star Wars show I think they've ever done or project even they've ever done, I think they rode that line pretty well, in my opinion, because you see the terror on Bix's face.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You see the flashbacks of when she was tortured by the emperor the by the empire. And you see all of that flashing through her as she's literally begging, no. Please don't do this. Please don't make me make this horrifying choice. And the lieutenant's just like, man, I wanna get my dick wet.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So you're gonna do what I say or I'm gonna throw everything. It's gross, but that's the context. Like, he was like, oh, my shoulders get sore, and you look like you have strong I was like
Alfredo Brown:He went full Deshaun Watson on Bicks. Mhmm. And it made me so uncomfortable. Yes. Jack, that's the point.
Alfredo Brown:You need to course, obviously. Yeah. Jack, I wanna ask you because I I think we all agree. Like, the scene didn't go too far. This was a scene that that shows how evil the empire can be.
Alfredo Brown:But I wanna ask you was was the scene necessary? Was there something else they could have done, or do you think that this was just I don't wanna say, the right choice, but do you think that well, essentially, yeah, was this the right choice for this scene?
Jagger May:Yes. We're telling a story. It it's everything that you kinda said. The story is it's like empire bad, but why is it bad? And what did it take to push everyone?
Jagger May:Let's not just say the Skywalker is like, well, my dad, blah blah blah. You got daddy issues, so we get, you know, motivation there. But just the common man and what pushed them to do the rebellion. It's not just a single Jedi Luke Skywalker against the empire. It is the Empire itself against its own government.
Jagger May:So, yeah, it's necessary. And if you think and you're really upset about it, grow up, people. Grow up. It's kinda like you said, man. Everyone just like like I read a tweet the other day.
Jagger May:If you're here, you might have solved said tweet. It was like, this doesn't belong, in in Star Wars and and Vader would never allow that in his empire. You mean Anakin Skywalker who murdered a bunch of children, then went his and then went and tried to murder his master and then forced chokes his wife? Yeah. For sure.
Jagger May:The we we could do mass genocide on the entire planet, but sexual assault, that's the line for our empire. Yeah. It's just it's wild. Anakin's big
Matthew Kopfhamer:on a no no.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Anakin's big on rules. That's he doesn't cross the line when it comes to rules and laws. Right?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Fuck. We know Vader's freaky as hell. He chokes he force chokes like everybody he sees, so we know he's freaky.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. He these are better daddy. What'd you say, Tarkin?
Jagger May:Everyone's like everyone's basically, their mentality is like, fuck them kids, but respect women. You know, it's like, okay. Yeah. It's just like
Matthew Kopfhamer:If only.
Alfredo Brown:So I what this show is demonstrating too is not just that Disney and Star Wars can go to a dark place. It's that the empire itself has a level of evil throughout everyone that we haven't seen. Right? Like, we're so
Jagger May:used to
Alfredo Brown:emperor Palpatine. We're so used to Vader, Tarkin, even some of the other underlings. Every other person that we see that's an underling essentially in the empire is a stormtrooper that is faceless. Right? Like, the first time we actually get a personality to a stormtrooper is when we meet Finn in in the sequel movies.
Alfredo Brown:Right? So it's like, now we're finding all these people who were it's essentially it's The Office, but in the Death Star, and we're getting to know the the creeds and gyms and all of them. And we're finding out, oh, some of them aren't that fucked up, but most of them really are. And evil and the empire is not inherently about taking money and taking resources. It's about power.
Alfredo Brown:It's about control. And what is more terrifying than someone that not only controls your resources but controls your body, controls your freedom of choice? And I I know people say, go woke, go broke. Don't don't talk about politics on this. Guys, if you don't see the fucking parallels at this point, my god.
Alfredo Brown:Holy shit. Are we at the point here? Yeah, cough.
Matthew Kopfhamer:At at that point, if anyone bitches about, oh, Star Wars has gone woke. Oh, Star Wars is all about politics. Bitch, George Lucas has said that a new hope is a allegory for the Vietnam War, and I'll give you three guesses as to who the empire fucking stands for, and it's not Vietnam. So my god. It's been inherently political since day one, and if you have an issue with it becoming woke now, you're a fucking idiot.
Alfredo Brown:So Episode one was about trade routes. Yeah.
Jagger May:Right. He was arguably too political is what I was saying. Yeah. Exactly.
Alfredo Brown:Not arguably. It was way too political.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It was too political.
Jagger May:But And I'm not trying to cross this thing about but, like Yeah. Sorry. Star Trek, same thing. All these things are like All the art that we've ever fucking read ever as nerds is genuinely like, hey, fuck the government. You know?
Jagger May:It's like At the end of the day, it's like government bad, probably.
Matthew Kopfhamer:The best art is inherently political because we are literally telling stories that reflect real life and what we're dealing with on a daily basis. So if you want the story to hit and have any sort of depth, you're gonna touch on things like politics. So anyone that complains, oh, I can't turn my brain off and watch, you know, Jedi's swinging lightsaber around. It's like go play fucking fallen order then. Like, play a video game where you you can have control of what's going on on the screen.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But if you wanna watch a compelling story, chances are it's gonna get political at some point.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. Now that we've spent the first ten minutes, discussing whether or not Star Wars is too political, I wanna let everyone know we got a giveaway. We got a really fun nonpolitical giveaway, You know, like, when people who give out money to get you to do things for them, that's not what we're doing here at all. We're giving out a $200 Amazon gift card, and all you have to do to enter to win this is leave a five star review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. It's not hypocritical at all.
Alfredo Brown:We're very good natured people. Or you're gonna leave a comment on YouTube with a suggestion of what type of content you wanna see next from us. It's really easy. All you have to do is one of those three things there. Take a screenshot, send it to unbingedpod@Gmail.com, and we're gonna announce the winner on the May 1 episode where we're talking about Andor season two.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. Also, not just Andor that we've been talking about. Previous episodes, we talked about Severance, White Lotus, Black Mirror, Daredevil, Born Again. Now we've got The Last of Us and Andor. Y'all TV's eating good, man.
Alfredo Brown:I'm I'm really happy with where TV's at. This has been really, really fun. Gentlemen, let's get back into this show because I think the thing that I have liked most about this new season is, one, you can definitely tell the money was put to good use. Right? And you get that right out of the gate with episode one, stealing the tie fighter, the special effects.
Alfredo Brown:The world itself feels bigger. The stakes feel bigger. And I know the show itself is still called Andor, but it almost doesn't even feel like Cassian's story anymore. Like, I think they probably would have just called this rebels had the cartoon not excuse me. Not cartoon, but the animated series not existed.
Alfredo Brown:Thank you. Yeah. I I know. Yeah. I know.
Alfredo Brown:I I correct my dad on that all the time. Every everything that's not live action to him is just cartoon. Yeah. I don't know why I made my dad into Oz Cobb. But, yeah, it's what I what I've really enjoyed about this is that this show this series has shown that it can survive without Cassian having to be the primary character pushing everything along.
Alfredo Brown:If anything, they benched him, and they were like, okay. Let's get, you know, Scottie Pippen in here and Ron Harper and some of the other bulls in here while Jordan's on the bench for a little bit, And let's get them, you know, scoring some points. And that's something that I think we're gonna have to see. Spoiler alert, by the way, for the last of us. Can the last of us do that without Joel?
Alfredo Brown:I mean, this is gonna be something that Andor was able to do really quickly in a span of three episodes here in season two. And now one thing that I've loved was I agree with you, Jag. I think I slept on season one a little bit because at times it got slow, but the payoff towards the end was great. Yes. And this time around, I am appreciating the pacing, and I'm appreciating the detail that's going into this.
Alfredo Brown:And to me, it's such a a fun contrast of looking at, like, for example, the daredevil shows. The The Netflix daredevil show, pacing was much slower, lots of detail. They let the stories marinate for a bit. You go over to the Disney plus daredevil born again, stories didn't quite marinate as much, but we got our payoff. Right now, Andor is doing the best of everything, whether it's Daredevil, whether it's, Last of Us.
Alfredo Brown:They're taking all the issues that other shows have or might have, and they're showing that they don't have those problems.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You know what
Jagger May:it reminds me of
Matthew Kopfhamer:is sorry, Jack. The the latest season I'm actually wearing the shirt. Of The Mandalorian kinda did this, where they pulled away focus from from Pedro and from Grogu to give us a wider scope of the universe and of the world and to build up some of these side characters. Now depending on who you talk to, people think that was a wrong choice, but I think you're right, Alfred. I think Andor is doing that to the best possible end.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And so far, the side characters that may have been a little bit smaller in season one feel much more important to the story. So I'm really excited to see where this show goes, especially when you consider they killed off Brasso in episode three, who was such a emotional part of season one where he was a leader in the community. He was the one that basically helped kick off the the revolution on Ferriqs after, after everything that went down. So to see these side characters get more importance, I think, was not only smart, but necessary for the story itself because we know at the end of the day, Andor is destined to die in Rogue One.
Alfredo Brown:That's
Matthew Kopfhamer:exactly So we need these side characters to get, you know, a little bit more importance in the story.
Jagger May:You need to care.
Alfredo Brown:You need to care about everyone. If the Skywalker series was only about Luke, I don't know that we care as much. I think we care because there's all these other characters of Leia and Han, Chewy, R2, like, everyone. There there's the whole rebel alliance. There's so many pieces of this galaxy that hinge on the story.
Alfredo Brown:And to see that the story is so much bigger than just Andor whom we know the ending for, I it's necessary because now it allows you to ask questions about other characters that you don't ever see in the original trilogy. And you're what happened to them? How does everyone get to this point? We know the ending, but it's how we get there now. And I think that's the most powerful thing the show is doing.
Alfredo Brown:Sorry, Jack. What were you gonna
Jagger May:I was gonna say, like, back to the point of liking other characters. I think it's even more than that where it's like, Andor is awesome. I'm just enamored with Mon Mothma's story because Mon Moth is like this angelic mom throughout Star Wars. She's like, oh, thank you children for killing all these people for our revolution. You know, you actually see that she's like a human being that had to give up a lot and risked a lot to get where she's at.
Jagger May:And it's and it's nice seeing kinda like winning time, rest in peace to that show, where you get to see the coach and what goes on with them and not just about the players that are scoring.
Alfredo Brown:You know? That's a good show, man. That was such a good show. Yeah. Ma Mothma is kind of like a Ma Mothma is kind of like the the version of Galadriel that we have in in Lord of the Rings where she's just kinda narrating everything and she looks like this just all beautiful, all powerful spirit, but we never actually see, like, the dark side of Mon Mothma.
Alfredo Brown:Mhmm. Yeah. I I like that it's it's making her more humanized.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Thank you. I was gonna say they've humanized her story. They've given us some motivation because before, it's like, well, why would this, you know, senator or former senator that we find out eventually, why is she such an important part to the rebel alliance? And now we're seeing her story and why, and the fact that she actually cares about the people that the empire is crushing, and that's her motivation for for mounting resistance and being the financial Is
Alfredo Brown:that the code to good storytelling in TV now, by the way? Taking characters that had no importance or at least no perceived importance and giving them a story that intrigues us, getting us to maybe let down our our our defenses a little bit because we've seen this with the penguin. We've seen it with Andor. We saw it with, this is a little deep cut, but creature commandos. All these different brands are able to take characters that were like, ugh.
Alfredo Brown:Why do we need that story? And then we're like, oh, this is good. This is enjoyable. Is that now the cheat code for TV maybe? I mean, peacemaker's another one I'm thinking about too.
Jagger May:I like the way you use cheat code because, like, is it cheap sometimes? Because it's it's literally like like glub shito. It's like like, where's our glub shito? Make a story about it, but it's good. You know?
Jagger May:Like, I mean, this, like, as, like, an term of endearment because you get to tell a story that isn't gonna piss off people who like the whatever original story in a lot of cases. Sometimes they fuck it up. You know, where it's not like we're gonna redo a Luke Skywalker thing and reek like, recast him and do this other story, but we could tell another story and have something that's kind of original. And it has a nostalgia factor of you loving Star Wars. So, yeah, I think it is a cheat code that I think Hollywood should use more, and I know that's kinda feeding into the franchise monster a little bit.
Jagger May:But when it's good, it's good. It it's when we get the MCU shit that's a that is a problem. And one thing I like that this show is done, and I'm gonna get way in them trenches, it's the Star Wars Aftermath trilogy where you you get to see Mon Mothma even more after the rebellion and learning and seeing Chandrilla before the rebellion, like, the actual rebellion and the war. And what we get in aftermath series and where Mon Mothma is is is fascinating for me because Star Wars is is fucking huge. You know?
Jagger May:Like, we don't even get into the trenches of comics and novels in there. It's a whole galaxy. Yeah. So there's so much room for this. And as long as you take care and pay an homage to the the other IP there, that I think you can continue to do this formula and we'll be happy.
Jagger May:Just tell a good story. Tell an adult story.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And that's that's the biggest point, Jireh. It's not just, oh, there here's a cheat code. Let's just pull a side character and tell a story about them. Yeah. No.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It has to be a well thought out, well constructed story that we actually will care about. Because it doesn't matter what the character is. We saw this in phase one of the MCU where they took characters that were c and d list or c and d tier characters and made us care about them and brought them together. So if you can write a compelling story with good character arcs, good character development that then ties to the greater story, yeah, you're gonna have a home run. But if you're just doing it for to chase a dollar, then we're the audiences can tell.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And Mhmm. Saw that with doom prophecy where they were just like, oh, doom's huge right now. Let's make a story about the sisterhood when they first started. To me, you could tell that it was just a cash grab. You take
Jagger May:the stories like this.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Whereas a story like this where it's like Cassian Andor could have just been a one time character that we see in Rogue One and then never again. But they took the time to con compellingly create a story that we care about and a character that we now care about, and you can see it in the production value.
Jagger May:Five years from now, Koff is gonna be like, you remember how doom prophecy fucking sucked? I hate that shit. Goddamn.
Matthew Kopfhamer:They had so much potential.
Alfredo Brown:Dune prophecy is like, what'd you say fucking for?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Be better, dude prophecy. Be better.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Go check out those episodes. We had fun talking about that show. You need to have to watch the show. Just listen to it.
Jagger May:Do you ever wanna see angry cough, which is rare? Go watch toon prophecy.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah, man. Episode episode one of us reviewing that was coughs crash out, man. Woah. Capital k. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Well, guys, so we we get really cool reveal with Cassian, and I'm kinda glad because I I kinda wanna break this down, like, character by character or at least, like, the different arcs that are going on. With Cassian, he he steals this, you know, prototype TIE fighter, ends up on this planet that we don't know what it is. It ends up getting revealed later that it's Yavin four. And that's that's it was such a cool payoff for those that, like, that were paying attention to that because it was it's funny. It's all perspective.
Alfredo Brown:If you look at it, you never notice. Right? Like, some people might not notice, but I think there are others that saw it immediately and saw those little, like, temple looking pyramid things. What? Oh, shit.
Alfredo Brown:That's where he was the whole time. And it was it was such a nice little wink and nod to where we're going to go with the Star Wars story. And it gave a payoff because, honestly, I had no interest in in Cassian with the the Maya pay, the the fighters that were there and these, like it's it's interesting.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Motherfuckers. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yeah. I've heard some some interesting takes on this that it's very much a representation of the far left and how they fight each other, and they can't actually get themselves organized. You know? And
Matthew Kopfhamer:it's Makes sense.
Alfredo Brown:It's not not not bad. Not a bad comp.
Jagger May:Fucking depressing, and it's true. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Yeah. Infighting over bullshit. Yep.
Alfredo Brown:What I think it did best, though, is two things. One, it gave us that little reveal, but it showed that Cassian is not the same guy from season one. He's not quite to the level of Andor, the excuse me, to Rogue One, but he is constantly outthinking everyone around him to the point that he's telling him, like, you guys should probably set up a perimeter. Water. It's still raining.
Alfredo Brown:You should bank some water. You know? And, like, just every little thing that he's doing, his mind is constantly going. So much so to the point that, like, I'm pretty close to just saying Cassian might be the best non force using character in Star Wars. Like, if if I'm putting together a team, no.
Alfredo Brown:Who is it, Koff?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Chewbacca, always and forever.
Jagger May:Okay.
Alfredo Brown:Well Okay.
Jagger May:I don't believe that. Yeah. Okay. You're wrong, so that's fine. That's fair.
Alfredo Brown:Try to try to have a conversation with him. Nope.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Well, it's Chewbacca. Always and forever. All in all our selling factor. Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:You know that if if the tide turns, Chewbacca's killing your ass and eating you. He's not suggesting that you bank some fucking water.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's fine. I'm good with that. Like, let Chewy live. I'll I'll sacrifice myself for him.
Alfredo Brown:Okay. This has gone into a weird fanboy glaze session.
Jagger May:I was about to say, I was just like, I really wanna expand on that cough, but I feel
Matthew Kopfhamer:Leave leave a comment with your best Chewy impression.
Alfredo Brown:Okay. By the way, this really makes me wanna do the star wars, prison break draft. I kinda wanna do it now. That was that was a fun idea.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I get five Wookiees. That's my team.
Alfredo Brown:Oh, Christ. Okay. Anyways. Well, since Cassian's really not the main character at this moment right now, let's talk about a trio that I think every time they were on screen, it kinda they they stole the show for me. It's Dedra.
Alfredo Brown:I think that Dedra has become one of my favorite characters in this, and there's just something so captivating about her. I guess there's, like, this this internal struggle. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm I'm misinterpreting that. Like, I don't see her as fully all the way fucked up, like like, Krennic and and a bunch of these other empire people.
Alfredo Brown:I think there's a so there's a there's a variation.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I
Alfredo Brown:do. There's a different there's a different version of her. I don't think that she is inherently evil. I think that she is drunk on the come up. That's what I think it is.
Alfredo Brown:I think that she is
Matthew Kopfhamer:Don't say that again.
Alfredo Brown:Okay. Well, I I it's fine. Yeah. Alright. I'll
Jagger May:Phrasing for sure.
Alfredo Brown:I'll walk that one back. For
Jagger May:sure. Shit.
Alfredo Brown:She's Recover. Yeah. It's it's just like how Vader actually has to tell Orson Krennic, right, don't choke on your aspirations, I think that's who she is. And I think that's what the empire is filled with. Not a lot of people that are inherently evil, but a lot of people that are inherently selfish and want power for themselves and control.
Alfredo Brown:There's a lot of ambitious people like that that are not inherently evil, but they're willing to be part of something evil to gain control and have power.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Those are called sociopaths, and they are real.
Alfredo Brown:Sure. I'm not saying she's not a sociopath.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. They don't have empathy for their for anyone else. They're just like, you're in my path, so either you move or I run you over. And that's very much her mentality of, like
Alfredo Brown:Does she have empathy for Cyril?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Well, no. She sees something can control and she very much has that. Like, she's she's using him just like his mother used him just in a different way where she's very direct. She's like, she's gonna tell Cyril what to do, whereas her mother his mother is just gonna nag him until he, like, kills himself. Which speaking of that those scenes, when he is laying on the bed just kinda, like, dead fish,
Alfredo Brown:I laughed myself. Laughing, dude. I couldn't stop laughing.
Jagger May:And then he he
Matthew Kopfhamer:hears them, like, being friendly, and he perks up. He's like, oh, maybe it's okay.
Jagger May:I think Dedra is Cyril's mom, except she does the key thing in saying you're a special boy. And she's in the position where a lot of men find themselves in, where it's like, and I'm not saying like they could be the same age, but a lot of times men in power, they're like, I want to date this young, you know, 20 year old or something because they admire me. And I think that's where Cyril is. And, Dedra and Cyril, I I think that they're I get I think what you're trying to say, Alfredo, maybe I'm I'm putting words in your mouth, is that they're not inherently evil because they think they're evil like a lot of people do. I think they are so dedicated to rules, structure, and goodness that it pushes them to, like, the Nazi thing of falling orders and, like, put I'm gonna say it again.
Jagger May:This is why I love this series because it yes. It pays a nod to Aftermath, where that whole trilogy shows how the empire fell and how a lot of these things that are happening now, Palpatine has already planned for his contingency plan, whether or not you like the the the the sequel trilogy or not. But straight up, that's what killed the empire, is it was bloated, and it became something where everyone is out for themselves, and you got all these power hungry people. It's like, hey. Go run this planet.
Jagger May:Gonna let somebody run a planet? They think they're gonna run a fucking universe no matter how big the galaxy is. So
Matthew Kopfhamer:Because because the unfortunately or unfortunately, whatever perspective you wanna look at it from, Palpatine designed the empire to follow the rule of the Sith rule of two, where it's like there's always gonna be an apprentice. There's always gonna be a master. The apprentice is always trying to take the master's place. And so when you build an entire organizational structure based on that kind of backstabbing, power hungry ambition, it's eventually gonna collapse in on itself like a dying star because there is no collaboration. There is only what can I do to make myself stand out so my superiors will recognize me?
Matthew Kopfhamer:And so you see that constantly inside the ISB. And even Cyril was talking about it when he's given that little tour of, like, you know, there is a future here if you dedicate yourself to it. And it's like, alright. Sure. If you wanna be a little cog in the machine, but eventually, that machine's gonna collapse under the weight of its own bullshit.
Jagger May:Yep. Freddie, you've worked with
Alfredo Brown:No. Go go, Jack.
Jagger May:I was gonna say, you've worked with me long enough. Someone like Cyril, I would bully at work. I'm like, bro, like, you are such a fucking little bitch, dude. You're gonna run to HR. No.
Jagger May:Cyril is HR.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's the difference. Cyril
Jagger May:is HR. Yeah. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Man, hearing Cyril talk to the new hire about all the things he accomplished is Snitching. It's like I Snitching. Dude, it it was
Matthew Kopfhamer:It took me months.
Alfredo Brown:It it's it's like it's like listen to, like, an uncle Rico talking about, man, if coach would've just put me in, I would've gone all state, gone pro. Like, that that that's how it felt. It's like the guy reminiscing on the good old days of, like, the most mundane shit that he's ever done and how successful he was.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Bro, Cyril peaked in high school.
Jagger May:I don't
Alfredo Brown:think he ever peaked.
Jagger May:No. I don't think he ever peaked. There's a problem. That's why he's
Alfredo Brown:like, massive yes. There's there's a massive arrested development with Cyril. And what what's interesting to me is, like, you look back at every time he's eating with his mother, he's eating cereal like a child Yep. Blueberry. Back in season one.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. He's eating basically, they just they look like little like, the the oops, all berries from Captain Crunch. Like, that's what he's eating every fucking episode. And it's just it's this infant it's he she's infantilizing him. She's she's she's keeping him in this arrested development.
Alfredo Brown:And then he goes, you know what it honestly is? It reminds me of season one of the boys where Home lander is kind of this, like, crazy neurotic Milk drinking? Drinking motherfucker. A mommy. But the but he's got that mommy in Dedra now who can kind of control until let's see how long she can't.
Alfredo Brown:There's, like, there's so many interesting there's so much interesting imagery in this. Even to the point of, like, Deirdre picking between her two outfits prior to meeting the mom, she goes all white. White? No. She goes
Jagger May:Gray or black? Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:But but you know what? It like, in those brief moments, I think what it does, it shows you that even within the empire, there is gray area. But and and, like, I think it's actually very intentional to have the black, white, and gray is that there is gray area in these characters. She even takes a moment to smile in the mirror, but then she doesn't smile when the mom actually comes in. And we actually never see her smile in the show, even with Cyril.
Alfredo Brown:So to see her smile in the mirror was almost like, there's a little bit of a person peeking out of there as she's trying to impress someone that's coming over. It was it was interesting to see that gray area. And to give Deirdre credit, though, she didn't even have
Jagger May:a chance to even smile because mom came in like a walking fucking cigaret and was just like, you know, like, Cyril, he's such a little bitch cut boy, you know, but I love him. He's so delicate. Uncle Harlow kept us from
Alfredo Brown:This was this was Star Wars meet the parents. I'm not gonna lie. This was her meeting Jack Burns.
Jagger May:I was like, did uncle Harlow touch you? You seem to really like him. Like, I don't know. She's so much. I don't like it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It raps. Do like when when Deidre threw it back at her. She's like, I looked at uncle Harlow's ISB file, that motherfucker is dirty as shit. So do you really wanna keep bringing him up? I like that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Mhmm. That was really cool.
Alfredo Brown:Mama Edie, she op number one or op number two maybe in the galaxy?
Jagger May:Natural let's say she's the non emperor op number one. Because like I said, that's some evil villain shit. It's one thing you wanna conquer the world and maybe enslave a Wookiee race.
Alfredo Brown:That that's
Jagger May:something. But you you're gonna turn your son into, like, whatever the fuck Cyril is. You know? Like, he's like he's like the the kid who snitches on everybody now, and he's, like, proud of it. Like like, the whole speech, like, to go back to it, he just like, if you dig your nose into other people's business long enough and snitch hard enough, you could get where I am, which is a house slut.
Matthew Kopfhamer:We're we're gonna find corruption and waste, and we're gonna eliminate it from the government. Sound familiar?
Jagger May:Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:I mean, do you have any empathy for this character, Cyril? Because, like, right now, I do not give a single fuck about him.
Jagger May:Actually, I do. I actually do.
Alfredo Brown:I I I want to try to empathize with his character because we've seen the mom, and I think that's the point is him having this mom makes you empathize with him. But, damn.
Matthew Kopfhamer:End of the day, he's an adult person with his own Therapy. Needs to make his own choice. He needs he needs therapy, but he needs
Alfredo Brown:to stop Every show we watch just breaks down to this character can go to therapy, and everything would be Honestly.
Jagger May:I think that's a plot therapy show. I have have a problem, and I wanna make it everyone else's fucking problem. That's like that, like, drives the plot to everyone else. Go talk to Yeah. Yeah.
Jagger May:Anakin's like, I saw my wife die. How do I ruin everyone else's life about this? You know? So
Matthew Kopfhamer:at the end of the day, I don't have sympathy for somebody like Zero because it's like, you gotta grow up at some point and stop blaming your parents for your your own problems. Like, I get it.
Jagger May:You're
Matthew Kopfhamer:right. Everybody has mommy and daddy. Like, everybody has their own shit with their parents. Right? If you let that control your entire life, if you let that control your entire life, you turn into Rick from the White Lotus season three.
Jagger May:Yep. Or you spend way too much time in the gym. I'm not talking about me.
Alfredo Brown:Jack's like, alright, guys. I'm gonna go work out after this.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's a healthy response in my in my opinion. That's a healthy response. You're working on your own body, your stress, all that.
Jagger May:So you're
Matthew Kopfhamer:not going out and snitching on people at the gym, are you?
Jagger May:Yeah. I'm not going around fucking up someone else's day. My mom said I was a bitch, so fuck you.
Alfredo Brown:Could you if you were Cyril if you were Cyril, could you let Deirdre do what she did there where she sort of, like, sets the rules?
Jagger May:Real talk, guys.
Alfredo Brown:I don't think he knows.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. No.
Jagger May:I I have a Cyril type mom. My mom was a walking cigarette who just sat there and belittled me for, like, years. You and I did. I just left. I'm like, you know what?
Jagger May:I'm 16. Close enough. You know, just like dipped out in the house. And then I went to therapy. Like, Kav, you actually walked aback because like, yeah, you could be you could be Cyril and just like, oh, I'm gonna crawl in the fetal position and hope my my my power top girlfriend will will deal with this problem for me.
Alfredo Brown:She's wait. She's definitely she's definitely an Amazon position.
Matthew Kopfhamer:We understand that the CEO's getting pegged. Right? Like, that's all our opinion. He's a %.
Jagger May:Yeah. Only if he's good, though, Koff. Only if he's good, boy.
Matthew Kopfhamer:He's a good boy. If he earns it.
Alfredo Brown:Hey, man. We're not don't don't kink shame people.
Jagger May:People are kink shaming. Hey. That's a healthy way to deal with it. Yeah. That's that's a healthy way to deal with it.
Jagger May:That's your problem you're dealing with in your bedroom. You're not going around snitching. Stop snitching twenty twenty five, y'all. Hashtag stop snitching twenty twenty.
Alfredo Brown:Hashtag don't snitch.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Speaking of snitching
Alfredo Brown:Speaking of snitches.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Sneak it's telling. Did he actually did he tell on Brasso Brasso and Knicks and all them, or was Brasso jumping to conclusions?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Because I didn't understand that scene when I first watched it. Do you think he told them that they were undocumented to save his own hide?
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yeah. I I I think it came down to it where where the empire, applied pressure. And, I mean, they're gonna do whatever they want to get what they want. Like, even even if it's not true, if they see some people there like, think about it with Cassian in season one when he gets imprisoned.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right.
Alfredo Brown:Right? Like, they didn't have any real reason to imprison him. They just wanted to. They wanted to grab an able body. The umpire is gonna do whatever the hell they want, whether it's true or not.
Alfredo Brown:So, yeah, I absolutely believe they coerced him into giving these people up, and, yeah, it it makes a ton of sense.
Jagger May:It this is what organizations do. We've seen this in The Last of Us, season one. You know, the Phedra putting pressure on people to snitch because my brother needs medicine, you know? But it makes a lot of sense. And, yeah, you don't want to snitch, but homie probably has a family.
Jagger May:And that's where they get normal people. It's like, okay, you you could kill me or whatever, but, you're gonna come after my kids, whatever. And, like, we've seen the empire. That's not too low for them. Like I said, they'll kill a whole planet for some fucking glass, essentially, you know?
Matthew Kopfhamer:They basically did that to to Deirdre. Like, three years old, they arrested her parents. They forced her into an orphanage, and now she is a bootlicker supreme. So yeah. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Makes a lot of sense.
Jagger May:I feel I feel sorry for her. She never had a chance. You know? Like, she legitimately never had a
Alfredo Brown:chance. When she when she's like, we didn't know what we were missing. Yeah. She laid it out perfectly. And if well
Jagger May:I never had cereal on
Matthew Kopfhamer:Blue Milk.
Alfredo Brown:We're we're talking about snitches here. A guy who is, I guess, considering snitching, and we probably won't get that ending here because, like you said, but Tay and and everything is
Jagger May:going down
Matthew Kopfhamer:with silver fox? Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Everything going down with Mothma, Luthin. This has been so interesting, man. And and I think that the pacing is a little bit better. It's a little bit faster than the than the first season when it comes to Mothma and Luthin, and then everything was kinda dragging out there.
Alfredo Brown:And this, I think, has just been kind of masterfully done, even to the point where as silly and as stupid as it might have been of Bon Mothma, just like getting drunk, taking shots and then dancing. You can kind of understand why You can you can understand why. Like, she's she's hit the point where it's like, well, I can't connect with my daughter on something that we can obviously connect about. I don't have much control over what I'm doing with my own rebellion. I'm in a loveless marriage.
Alfredo Brown:I got financial issues, and I've got all this pressure, everything crumbling around us with our rebellion. You know what? Fuck it. I'm gonna have a couple shots and just white girl this out and just throw my arms up. And she out there looking like Caitlin Olsen in It's Always Sunny, just dancing, throwing the arms up, doing the wacky inflatable arms.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. I'm in. That's my wife's move. That's my wife's go to move on the dance floor.
Jagger May:Another thing too is, like, she wanted to at that point, she's like, fuck it. I'm just gonna prove my daughter right. Because she was just like, well, I wish you were drunk.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I wish you
Jagger May:were Mommy, I love him. I've known him an hour. You know? And
Alfredo Brown:In the last episode, she's complaining that he won't hold her hand.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Like, come on.
Jagger May:I mean, I I really feel for it. Do you guys think that Luthan? And maybe it's because a different series I'm reading, and I don't wanna name it because I don't wanna give a spoiler, but a big thing in it is that people that actually, I'll I'll go back to the black freighter from, like, the watchmen, like, good analogy of it, where Luthan is slowly becoming or I am Legend. I think he's becoming the monster more than ever because I feel like you didn't have to kill Tay. There is a solution.
Jagger May:Give him some fucking money. You know? And he could have moved on. And now Luton is just so ruthless at this point that I don't know if you could keep him alive for the the future, you know, because it's kinda like he's a wartime consigliere, and I don't know if you could take him into peacetime or if he can even survive. Because after his whole speech from season one, I'm like, homie, I don't even know if therapy can fix you at this point.
Jagger May:Like, you're a soldier. Yeah. You're a soldier. Thank you for your service. But damn, you know, like, the shit like this is what the Empire would do, you know?
Alfredo Brown:We we talked about this with with Last of Us as well.
Jagger May:That's what I'm saying. It's necessary, but it it's generally what happens in, like, even in police. You're too deep, man. Like, you're just too far gone at that point. You know?
Matthew Kopfhamer:But if he's also so here's the thing about Luton, though, is because he's so deep and he has so many lives riding on every single one of his decisions, he doesn't have any room for error. So if there is a loose thread, just like we saw in season one when they were contemplating killing an Cassian because he is not a member of our rebellion, tactically. He's a loose end. We need to snip that in the bud or we're all at risk. So,
Alfredo Brown:again, this is the
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. You gotta you gotta snip it in the bud because otherwise Snip it in bud. End. Snip it, snip it, whatever.
Alfredo Brown:Cough out here. Snip it in the bud. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Snip it in the Yes. But that's the thing. It's like he's at that position where he has no room for any error. So, yeah, when you have someone who is crashing out like Tay, the easiest and fastest solution is make him disappear. Don't try to reason with him.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Don't try to pay him off because eventually he's he could be a loose end somewhere where he gets drunk and says something to the wrong person. So get rid of him, and then the rebellion itself is still protected.
Jagger May:The drinking thing is is is the the key there because, like, a lot of times I even joke with my fiance sometimes. Yeah. I was just like I was like, sometimes around these some of these people, they're, not our friends. And I I'm not obviously, I'm not dealing with the spit stakes of rebellion, just shitty people, like, running their mouth. I was like, you know, some like, you can't talk to some people so loosely around there because they'll use shit against you.
Jagger May:You know what mean? So if you do have the consequences of an entire rebellion, I'm like, buddy, you need to go to rehab or, you know, I was
Alfredo Brown:Well, I I think what this show has been doing
Matthew Kopfhamer:Dawn June, Phoebe Thanos.
Jagger May:Yeah. Exactly. Thank you.
Alfredo Brown:What what I think this show has been doing so well is I mentioned the gray area within the empire, but it's it's really it's the gray area within the both sides, within the rebellion as well. And you get these characters like Luton, like Mothma, who I don't think Mothma is at that same point where Luton is at. Like, I don't think she realized she can do everything that she needs to do. It it's like the it's the Kylo Ren. It's I know what I need to do, but I don't know if I'm strong enough to do it.
Alfredo Brown:Like, I think that's where she is right now, and she'll eventually have that moment.
Matthew Kopfhamer:She's still idyllic. She still thinks we can do this without bloodshed.
Alfredo Brown:Right. That's what I'm saying. But the there's there's too much gray area now in this rebellion because you can't play by your own rules. You can't be Batman and say, I don't kill. You're going to have to kill if you wanna get the results that you want here.
Alfredo Brown:There's going to be bloodshed, and a lot of these characters end up in this fight or flight mode where simply all they have to do at this point is if you wanna have a successful rebellion, it's survive. Like, you just go full Robert Downey junior in Tropic Thunder and survive. Like, that's it. That's all you can do is just keep killing, keep doing whatever grimy shit it takes to make your rebellion work, and convince yourself it's all for the good. Because at the end of the day, this is better than letting the empire take over everything.
Alfredo Brown:So Luton is already at that point. Cassian is already at that point. Mothma is getting there, and you start to see it with all these characters where even when Brasso dies, Cassian doesn't have time to be sad. He takes, like, a quick moment, wells up a little bit. He's like, alright.
Alfredo Brown:We gotta go. Mothma, right before the wedding, she gets sad. Alright. I'm going in front of you when we walk out first. It's just like they all have to flip the script right there.
Alfredo Brown:Luthan's done it so many times where you see him. He's putting on robes. He's putting on wigs, and he's
Jagger May:He's got a crack in the of the
Alfredo Brown:Like, he's he's a seasoned vet, but now all these other characters, they're the ones learning how to flip the switch at this point so that they can make this rebellion work.
Jagger May:Yeah, it's an excellent point there
Matthew Kopfhamer:too. Yeah,
Jagger May:the whole like, got to put my big girl panties on and just do it type mentality on there. And Alfredo, you Yeah, that that Batman parallel. Luton in in Mon Mothma are Harvey Dent and Batman to the extreme where it's like, I need you working in the shadows. Yeah, do it. Yeah, I was supposed to say like like he's the Thomas Wayne version Batman.
Jagger May:I need you in the shadows doing some grimy shit. And in Mon Mothma, you know, like, that's what's she's even more extreme, I would say, Harvey Dent, where she's Harvey Dent was willing to get grimy. You know, Harvey Dent was just like, yeah. You know, this is some sketchy shit. I'm down, you know?
Jagger May:But, like, Mon Mon Moth was not at that point, and they really need a figure like her in the light, you know?
Alfredo Brown:Well, guys, I think we got an awesome opening arc here from Andor. I don't even wanna rate this right now because, like, I don't I think we wouldn't be doing it justice. Too early. We we essentially got a a what I think would be a fantastic Star Wars film in and of itself, and we got the three episodes here. And the fact that we're gonna get to do this, what, three more times with this show?
Alfredo Brown:Mhmm. Yep. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to what to see what this show is going to do. I think we get another time jump here.
Alfredo Brown:We're gonna get a one year time jump going into the second arc, the next three episodes. Oh. I believe that's that's what it is. It's supposed to be a one year time jump between each of these three episode arcs.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Leading up to okay. That's what
Jagger May:okay.
Alfredo Brown:So that
Matthew Kopfhamer:makes sense.
Jagger May:So that
Alfredo Brown:we're getting closer and closer to to Rogue One, and that's why we have that grizzled, you know, and or at that point. Well, I think it's going to be a wrap for us. We're going to be back again on Monday with our review of The Last of Us season two, and we're gonna be breaking down that episode. And then, of course, next week, we're gonna be back again on Thursday with our review of the three episode arc for Andor. Like I mentioned before, we've got our giveaway going on right now.
Alfredo Brown:$200 Amazon gift card for one lucky winner. All you have to do to enter to win that, leave a five star review on Apple or Spotify, or just leave a comment down below of this YouTube video suggesting what type of content you wanna see next from us. Screenshot that, send it over to unbenchedpod@Gmail.com. We're gonna announce the winner on the May 1 episode of the Andor season two pod. Well, guys, as always, we wanna thank everybody for watching and listening all the way through for myself, for Koff, for Jagger.
Alfredo Brown:We'll see you next time. Adios.
