On today's episode of the UnBinged podcast, we're giving you our breakdown and review of Andor season two episode seven through nine. Is this the best that Star Wars has ever been? Spoiler alert. Yes. All that and more on an on episode of Unvenged starting.
Matthew Kopfhamer:This is your one and only spoiler warning for Andor season two and season one. And basically, all of Star Wars, we can't talk about this show without spoiling the original trilogy, the prequel trilogy, and we ignore the sequel trilogy. But this is your spoiler warning. So if you haven't caught up, now's your chance.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. So I was gonna ask this question. Is this the best Star Wars has ever been on screen? I'm just I'm looking around. It seems like that's a yes from all of us.
Alfredo Brown:Mhmm. Yeah. And then that's what you said. Cough, you said wrong question. You said, what's number two after this?
Alfredo Brown:Because this is clearly the straight cooking. Mhmm. Yeah. So this then leads me to ask the question. Not only is this the best that Star Wars has ever been on screen, what's the top three then for Star Wars?
Alfredo Brown:Like, for what comes after Andor, Jag?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Well, before that clarification, wait. Are we including Rogue One in Andor, or is it separate from Andor?
Jagger May:I wanna separate packages. Separate? Okay.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Kinda it kinda needs to be packaged because it's a culmination of what Andor is.
Alfredo Brown:But then you package package episodes four to five and six then. Like, is that what we're doing?
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's fair. I could package a trilogy.
Jagger May:No. No. That that's the line. It's rogue one.
Alfredo Brown:Okay? This is where people start to thumbs down the video, Koff. This is where they do that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I just wanna clarify.
Alfredo Brown:It's okay. So let's before we do this, before we rank, I think this is a nice little tease. We're gonna rank these things, and we're gonna give our top three, I think. But I I wanna ask since we agree, why is this the best that Star Wars has ever been, Jag?
Jagger May:Because this is just great television that it's so hard finding an entry point for people in the Star Wars. We have it right now. Like, where should I start with with Star Wars? Start at Andor. This is so good, and there's not a single fucking lightsaber, guys.
Jagger May:There's not not not one time there's not a lightsaber. And it is this compelling and this great television, and it captures the spirit of what Star Wars is, and to me, the best era of Star Wars. So that is something that I don't think it's ever achieved before. When you got the the the sequel, excuse me, the prequel trilogy that came in here, us, our generation, we were locked in because we were children. So, like, the bar was fucking low.
Jagger May:Then when eventually the Sith happened, we were a little bit older, and we were already on that bandwagon, so we were sold. But they didn't get a lot of new people into Star Wars. It kinda just pissed off old fans and made it difficult for for new fans because they don't wanna hear about trade. You know?
Alfredo Brown:So Disrespecting the hell out of Jar Jar Binks right now, man.
Jagger May:I will do it even further if you give me the opportunity, but I'll cede my time.
Alfredo Brown:In the state of emergency, we can cede our time to another senator, senator Koffhammer.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You know, we have let this monster no. I'm just kidding. This show does some some real incredible, god, just incredible work. Like, the original trilogy was very good at showing us the overall hero's journey for, like, Luke, Leia, Han, Chewy, like, the original cast. But what it didn't do was give us those boots on the ground, the cannon fodder, if you will, in their story and what they're going through and how they fight against the empire.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And we saw it perfectly in episode eight with the hotel, like, bellboy that got promoted to the the front desk guy. And he gives that one line to the Cassian where he's like, rebellion is built on hope, and then he bombs the hell out of some stormtroopers. Like, that is such a small moment in the grand scheme of things, but it exemplifies what makes this show so great is we're seeing the real human cost of what a rebellion is and how even with the best of intentions, you can get destroyed by an overwhelming force, but that doesn't mean that you stop fighting. That doesn't mean that you you give up. That just means that you have to fight harder and smarter and and use the tools and resources in that's available to you to overcome those, you know, fascist regimes.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And, god, the way it's paralleling the real world right now is it's breathtaking. I don't know how else to describe it because I'm still doing a way that this Star Wars.
Alfredo Brown:No. This is just natural storytelling. Something yes.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Just natural storytelling that mirrors the real world in a way that is real and visceral. And goddamn, if you didn't cry during any of these episodes, you have no heart, in my opinion. Like, I fucking leaking the entire ending of season eight or episode eight. Okay.
Matthew Kopfhamer:From my eyeballs. Leaking.
Alfredo Brown:Let's, yeah, let's rephrase I don't wanna imagine you leaking.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Dude.
Jagger May:Cindy, the TV's leaking.
Alfredo Brown:Harry movie three, guys. Go check it out. Classic comedy. Man, for me by the way, that line from the hotel, you know, assistant there, rebellions are built on hope. I hope you caught that.
Alfredo Brown:That's that's the line that Jyn Erso gives in Rogue One. Like, this is something that that comes back around to us. It carries that emotional weight. So you've got Cassie, and I don't know if he pulls that, but, like, that he's hearing this multiple times. And to me, what this show did was what what makes it so special for Star Wars content and what actually makes it a cut above everything else is we fell in love with characters when we watched Star Wars, and we fell in love with the universe when we watched A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, the original trilogy, even some of the other stuff.
Alfredo Brown:We never have experienced emotion the way that we have with this show. With anything else in Star Wars. I was nervous at the end of episode seven of this season. I was devastated at the end of episode eight. I cried at the end of episode nine.
Alfredo Brown:Like, I walked over to my wife's office here in the house and I just tears running down my face. She's like, oh, shit. Okay. So I guess I have to watch this show now too. And I was like, you bitch, you're gonna make me do this again?
Alfredo Brown:And she was like, yep. Yep. We're we're gonna do that. And it's wild because I'm sitting here thinking like, we know the Gorman massacre is going to happen. We know what's going to happen to Cassian.
Alfredo Brown:We know what's going to happen to everyone around here. But we needed to be present in this moment. We needed to see what happens on Gorman to truly hate the empire. Like, we've always had the understanding that they're bad. We got to see Anakin go around slicing up some kids, and and we we just we get the the mental understanding that the empire is bad.
Alfredo Brown:I don't know that we've ever had the reason to truly hate them until we see it this up close on screen. I don't know that we've actually had that. And this show has brought out that emotion almost in a way that it feels like we're getting the behind the scenes look of Star Wars, a documentary of how the empire was built, how the rebellion was built, everything that we see that just feels so raw and real. It's not about and I'm stealing this from our cohost, Vig. It's not about the destination.
Alfredo Brown:It's not where we end up because we know where that is. It's about this journey. And this show has gone so far beyond what other shows do or other movies do, which is make us care about characters we don't care about. They're making us care about what happens when we already know the ending. And to me, that's just incredible TV.
Alfredo Brown:It's the exact opposite of everything else that we've come to love, like Severance and White Lotus where we're like, ah, what happens at the end? We know we know what happens at the end here. We are so ingrained in the moment. It's just incredible television. It's it's cinema.
Jagger May:And they're not pulling I have for that, yeah. They're they're not pulling punches. Only pushback I have, and this is this is the only time we haven't seen it we've we've seen it in in live action. The only other thing that gets close to this is, like, to be honest, it's Clone Wars and the Bad Batch. Rebels, even at some point, Rebels was still a a little bit Disney XD at times.
Jagger May:And and, like, Rebels is my favorite. Like, actually, now it's become this era of Star Wars is my favorite because, like, we get parallels. We know after Mon Mothma's speech, what that speech is and where it happens at, and we know where where Ezra is on Lothal right now. So this era is my favorite, and I'm gonna tie that in. But I I'm watching the Bad Batch right now too.
Jagger May:This is the only time where you actually see like, is Bad Batch in here just how fucked the empire is? Because you don't think about the genocide at all. Like, it I don't know. This is crazy to see. You saw them hit a button and say, there's Alderaan, and then you saw, like, claymation explosion.
Jagger May:And and you're like, oh, wow. That sucks. But they didn't actually capture what was, like,
Alfredo Brown:the emotion. Of an object. You didn't you didn't get to feel the emotion of people.
Jagger May:Yes. And you saw the people. That's what they did so well. Yes. And the payoff in this show.
Jagger May:Because I tell I was actually on a different pod last night, and I I was talking to our friend, Tip. I was like, Tip, this like, if I know you're not into, like, space and shit like that. Like, this is just a good show regardless of Star Wars. And it's slow, but it's one of those things that every single thing is gonna pay off. Because, like, earlier this season, I'm like, why are we spending so much time talking to this desk guy?
Jagger May:Because, like, I get he's a little bit of exposition. It paid off multiple times with him where he comes in, and he's just like, hey. I know you ain't you know, I remember you, dog. It's cool, though.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You gotta
Jagger May:scare your man. So yeah. Yes. I see a snitch, so watch out. I got you.
Jagger May:And they went up there, and then he's ready gripping the grenade. He had he said he had had that in his cubby the whole time just ready to roll.
Alfredo Brown:Just on his word locker. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Oh, but this show is so good because there was a part in episode eight when they released the the KX droids, and I legitimately got, like, goosebumps because I was like, this is terrifying. If you were on
Jagger May:that movie for a second.
Alfredo Brown:They were playing cornhole with the Gormans. They were just tossing those motherfuckers.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Dude, when when casting was like, run, I was like, holy holy shit. I know if I was on that street, I would be getting backfisted in the back and thrown into a wall and dead on impact. Like, that's legitimately some incredible cinematography work to just make this like, droids in Star Wars are kind of a joke. Like, they always have been. And this was the You're
Jagger May:skipping droid episodes. Well, okay. Most of the time. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Exactly. Like, they they are meant to be, this joke character, these KX reds are like, no. No. No.
Matthew Kopfhamer:These are straight up terminators. Like, the empire is not fucking around. Like, they they created a story, which was gorma resistance and insurrection terrorism, And then they used it as justification to crack down as hard as they could. And then we even see yes. And we even see them utilize, like, these green, like, untrained, like, specialists that came in.
Matthew Kopfhamer:They're basically kids because they knew that they're gonna put them in the front line, have them cause some sort of reaction, and they're gonna be the martyrs that they use to justify this massacre. And my god, if you don't see the parallels to what's going on in the real world right now, congratulations. Or
Jagger May:history. Rock. Or yeah. History. And and just allow me to to nerd out a little bit on here because, like, this is one of those things where you just wanted to dive deeper in every Disney plus does them themselves a disservice.
Jagger May:I watch the HBO after episodes every fucking time. I need this for Andor on here. So I'm, like, on Instagram looking at every clip I have, and they were very specific, making, they wanted to mirror the the French Revolution. That's why they made Gorman, you know, Paris Fashion Week, the planet. Yep.
Jagger May:And then on on on top of that, the the KX unit thing, there was actually supposed to be a whole episode for that, and they were like, man, this is we gotta cut on budget because they really wanted to make a horror movie. Like, they basically wanted to make alien, but with, like, a KX unit. That's gonna mope.
Alfredo Brown:So good.
Jagger May:Yeah. And and even within that five minutes, we got that feeling. We got the terminator feeling. We got the alien feeling of just like, fuck. There's this all powerful thing, and all I got is a little pea shooter essentially at that point.
Jagger May:And it just it was just so beautiful to watch. Mean, it we got so much in that episode where you're just like Walt and Goggin, just like this, like, mouth open just watching the whole time. You know?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Ugh. I I I cannot say enough about this show. Like, honestly, just call me Balsami because I'm I I glaze the shit out of this. Okay. I don't know about that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It's it's hard to put into words, like, what makes this show so much better than basically everything else right now on television. And it just goes It's
Jagger May:the best show on TV right now.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yes. It just goes
Alfredo Brown:really Is it the best TV
Jagger May:show of me?
Matthew Kopfhamer:And care. It so far so far, in my opinion.
Alfredo Brown:I think it's right up there with severance.
Jagger May:Severance is up there, like, for me. They're almost two different shows, so I will say they're tied a little bit. Yeah. Like like, what Severance has going for it and or can't do because it's just not that kind of show. But I will say that and yeah.
Jagger May:Andor has done a lot, and everyone's like, well, there's so much Star Wars. We haven't spent a lot of time with these characters, man. Like, if you really think about it. So the amount that they've made me care about each and every person on screen in a short amount of time is just some breathtaking, writing there. Because you gotta think about Brasso's screen time that he had.
Jagger May:Every moment was great. That when we lose him and then somehow after we lose him, we're gonna name a song after the one of the best club bangers ever after him. You know, you you felt really sad about that. You feel sad. Like like Willman, I'm surprised this motherfucker has survived.
Jagger May:He survived huffing gas with Saw Gerrera and a Gorman massacre. Like And
Matthew Kopfhamer:he found a new baddie.
Alfredo Brown:What a hell of a week. Captain, it's only Wednesday. Himself a new
Matthew Kopfhamer:baddie too.
Alfredo Brown:That's where he's
Jagger May:at. Got a fridge like like, woman that he I think he survives this. Like, somehow, he's gonna survive Rogue One or something.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I hope so.
Alfredo Brown:I I wanna talk more about that. I wanna talk more about these characters that survive and, like, how it affects Rogue One. But we were talking here about, like, where this ranks among Star Wars content. Let's do that. Let's do that.
Alfredo Brown:Where I mean, this is number one. What's in your top three so that we can have something that we can comp this to? So if someone where is it?
Jagger May:Rebels is, like, two for me. Like
Alfredo Brown:I go Okay. So you have Andor, Rebels. What's three?
Jagger May:Maybe Bad Batch, but revenge I'm having trouble with what's objectively animation. Yeah. I have what's objectively good in my emotions. Like, revenge of the sith has a special place in my heart at all times, but the stories that they do in animation where it's just unsullied by Disney a little bit more is just so good. And Andor kinda feels like that too.
Jagger May:Like, I just think that everything everything that has been animated and now with Andor is just superior than even the Mandalorian. Because I thought the Mandalorian was pretty good. It got a little overrated, then it got bad. Let's just say, like, season three fucking sucks, a Mandalorian. And you wanna talk about unsullied by yes.
Alfredo Brown:So mad at you.
Jagger May:Cough they put Lizzo and Jack Black in an obvious episode where Christopher Lloyd was the villain. Come on. You Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:In That's one episode. Okay.
Alfredo Brown:Just stopped at the first character. They oklizzo.
Jagger May:Full stop. Star Wars.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah.
Jagger May:They brought back Grogu specifically to sell toys. They shipped them off. Yeah. And they're like, like, we gotta sell baby Yoda. That that season was ass.
Jagger May:Let's all say it out loud. We've got good Star Wars now. We got Andor that we can hug now. Let's hug our
Matthew Kopfhamer:I like the reclamation of Mandalore, so I'll say it there. Cop, what are
Alfredo Brown:your top three? Twos. Okay.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. My top threes are gonna be Andor. I mean, Rogue One. Like, it's the culmination of what Andor's gonna be. And then Empire Strikes Back.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I like the depressing shit, apparently. My god. I just realized
Alfredo Brown:No. I was I'm right there with you. So I have Andor number one, Empire number two, and then, Jack, I'm with you on rebels. Rebels is three. For me, I have Rogue One as number four.
Alfredo Brown:And Rogue One to me, like, just continues to get elevated more and more by this show. And that's so that's what I wanted to talk about. It's like how Rogue One gets elevated by this because we already did our spoiler warning. The way episode nine ends with Bix. And she says, when all of this is done, I'll see you again.
Alfredo Brown:That's We'll get well, again, be back together again.
Jagger May:Thank you, Kyle. I was gonna say they Batmaned him. You can't be happy.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Dawgs. Fucking Yeah.
Jagger May:Oh, Spider
Alfredo Brown:Man. Watched that movie with with the kids. They they got to see Dark Knight for the first time, and, we're having to watch in, like, forty five minute installments. Fucking kids, man. They got they got no attention to No attention it.
Jagger May:They can't watch that movie. Like, I don't
Alfredo Brown:They're mesmerized by the Joker every time he's on screen. Heath Ledger. Good. Crush.
Jagger May:That's cool and alarming, so let's put it
Alfredo Brown:We're gonna do an episode on that. We'll be back. Radicalizing. We need to do an episode we need to do an episode on just, like, straight up Star Wars rankings from top to bottom. Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:Let us know in the comments, guys. If you want us to do that, we we gotta knock one of those out at some point. Maybe after Andor is done, we'll we'll have a, you know, nice little TV break here. But, man, the way that this show has elevated a movie I don't know if there's any other shows out there that have done that. That's just
Jagger May:to elevate a movie to
Alfredo Brown:Clone Wars. I mean, Clone Wars did that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right? Did it with Revenge of the Sith. Yeah. Yeah. In the prequel.
Jagger May:I just did the supercut.
Alfredo Brown:Explained?
Jagger May:You watched the the end, of season six at the or seven, whatever last season, at the same time as revenge of the sith, and you make pauses at key moments. Back then. So everything's happening at the same time.
Alfredo Brown:Love it. So it's the
Matthew Kopfhamer:chronological order of events. That way it hits.
Alfredo Brown:Yes.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It hits harder.
Jagger May:Yes. Yes. It does hit harder. Like, Ahsoka is like like you said, like, is Anakin okay? I'm like, he's crashing out, baby girl.
Jagger May:Sorry.
Alfredo Brown:The short answer, no.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. While she's while she's escaping a a ship full of clones in Darth Maul, he's mowing down children on Coruscant.
Jagger May:Yeah. Like, just straight up. So that's your point on yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So Yeah. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:With this show, the way that they've been doing everything is it almost feels like a bunch of different shows rolled into one where we're getting, like, small versions, like, different seasons. Right? Like, we're getting these these three episode arcs. What was the big takeaway for you guys from these last three episodes? Besides just saying, like, they're great, right, and the show is great.
Alfredo Brown:Like, what was what was the thing that stayed with you after these episodes, Cough?
Matthew Kopfhamer:The fact that someone like Mon like, I really it's very small, but I love the scene between the Gorman senator and Mon Motho, and he's basically, like, apologizing for being a coward. And he's like, I've never had the chance to tell you thank you for your continued support and courage. Like, you are a beacon of essentially, he calls her, like, a beacon of hope for the galaxy. And that really stuck out to me because we need people like that, where they are so idyllic and hopeful that they can kinda carry the weight of these movements on their shoulders and be that shining example of what everybody else needs to aspire to. And it can give, you know we we see her face the reality of, like, what that means when Andor is, like, murdering people in front of her to protect her.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And so she's getting that, like, oh, it's not just words. It's real it's reality. And I think that is gonna stick with me for at least through next week, because it's like, she has not faced what an actual rebellion means to the people on the ground actually fighting the rebellion until she is literally thrown in the middle of But it doesn't shake her confidence. It doesn't shake her courage. Like, she still continues on despite the questions.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Like, is Luther gonna have Cassian kill me? Like, she still goes with him despite all those questions because she knows at the end of the day, she has to do what's the the right thing.
Alfredo Brown:Koffit, in that that word you said, reality, is like, that was the big part of Mothema's speech. And to me, that was the big theme of these three episodes was having everything sort of have that gravity of reality baked into it. They put us on the ground in Gorman. They put us in Mon Mothema's shoes in probably the scariest moment of her life. They put us in Cassian's shoes when he's got to deal with something so emotional where he's losing Bix.
Alfredo Brown:There's so many of these things where we went from. I think in the first couple episodes, it was just the scale of the rebellion and how it's bigger than Cassie. And then we had the relationships and testing relationships versus duty. And then this just became reality. And how I mean, the way that she says it in the speech, the loss of objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous threat to us.
Alfredo Brown:The death of truth is the ultimate victory of evil. That's terrifying. That's terrifying. And I know there's a lot of people that are experiencing that today, and it's just it was done so masterfully, so artfully. And even when Cass is talking to Clea and he's saying, I need to start making my own decisions, he's ready to, like, to to peace out from from Luthan.
Alfredo Brown:And she hits him with, I thought that's what we were fighting for. And I think that all I get tied in so well to the thing with Bix, where Bix is essentially taking this burden away from him, where he can just make the best decisions for the rebellion and do what he needs to do with his duty as opposed to worrying about her. And then even in that scene, like, dude has no time to cry over Bix. He's he's going straight to this this this birth of k two. And same thing for for Mon Mothma.
Alfredo Brown:She didn't have time to make decisions. She didn't have time to ask if this is the right way to go or the best person to be with. You just had to do it. And, honestly, that's what the rebellion has become for these characters, and that's what we get to see, that the rebellion is actually just the absence of humanity in a fight for humanity. You don't get the the time to have emotions.
Alfredo Brown:You don't get the time to worry about yourself. You're not a person anymore. You're part of a movement. And that's the sacrifice they have to make for there to eventually be humanity again. And, honestly, it's it's been done so masterfully, man.
Alfredo Brown:Like, I'm I'm all the way in. It's just it's remarkable.
Jagger May:Yeah. And the big thing that and you guys have kinda said this, and the big takeaway for me, it's the fear, man. The the fear that these guys have. I mean, I think at some point, we've all worked at a toxic company. And even in that small sense, that isn't even close to what Mon Mothma's experiencing right now or what Andor experiences on an everyday basis, you feel that all the time where you just got, everyone watching you.
Jagger May:You're wondering about who's gonna snitch. We see these in documentaries all the time about these cults and whatnot that's happening. Now imagine that on a literal galactic scale at this point. And I think, like, Genevieve O'Reilly does such a great job with my mom because she's just, like, shook at this point. The the fact that we've seen her on this, she's like, done.
Jagger May:Like, I can't do this a second longer. My husband sucks. My daughter thinks I'm a bitch, and all I'm trying to do is just the right thing. You know? And, it's it's it I'd like that the show encapsulates the dark the dark areas that that really make the light happen.
Jagger May:And I know I keep saying that, but Star Wars does a good and bad job of the hope thing, but they don't know the cost of hope and what gives you hope sometimes. You know?
Alfredo Brown:That's it right there. The cost of hope. That's and it's you're talking about how, like, Bothma's I don't wanna say having a crash out because she's not. But she's having this thing where, like you said, it's the relationship with the daughter, the relationship with the husband, the relationship with the senators. Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:Everything's gone, essentially, in in this in this effort to do the right thing and to have humanity is, like I was saying, like, her own human like, she is void of being a real human at this point in an effort to try to let everyone be a human. It's it's kind of crazy how even trying to put others before you, you she she's lost herself, which and it's just it's it's incredible to see that. I wanna run through these characters here, guys, because, like, let's just start off with Cassian and Bix. This has been one of the most heartbreaking things I think I've ever seen in Star Wars. Is that is that, like, you guys are are there too?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Agreed.
Jagger May:Yeah. As far as, like, straight up love interest, it's not even close. Like, this is hard. Like, hey. I'm sorry, George Lucas.
Jagger May:Not a strong writer with Padme and Anakin. I didn't feel it. Didn't quite feel it. Yeah I just like if anything you wanted them to break up, you're like Padme. Leave him.
Jagger May:Fuck this clown. You can do better. Exactly the only thing that's close is maybe Obi Wan and Sateen. Maybe in Kunglers.
Alfredo Brown:But even
Jagger May:then, it so small.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Wasn't overt. Yeah. It was more
Alfredo Brown:Maybe Rey and Kylo? I'm just kidding.
Jagger May:Yeah. I'm just I didn't even he's fucked up as I've never Luke and Leia, the original seen the card movie.
Alfredo Brown:Don't.
Jagger May:That's what everyone says. I was like I I was like, I watched Rian Johnson, then I've said, I'm good.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I've seen video games. Honestly, no.
Jagger May:I kinda
Alfredo Brown:better movie. We that's that's a that's an episode. I wanna see a full on reaction episode of Jag just watching it for the first time going, oh, fuck. No. Hell no.
Alfredo Brown:Like, every every, like, fifteen minutes. Like, what the fuck?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Somehow somehow Palpatine returned. Oh, fuck all this.
Alfredo Brown:Like, somehow I turned this shit off.
Jagger May:It's like We we I The sequel trilogy sucks. Never seen it, so I don't know I'm just might be.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Alfredo, I I I did wanna go back on something you said about humanity and the cost of humanity and how I thought it was incredible how they included Deidre and even Cyril's reaction to what was happening in the world. Dude. And you see
Alfredo Brown:Oh, yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:We're getting into the whole thing. Like, the whole evil side of things, like, still have to deal with and and come to terms with what they're doing. And unless they're a sadist like that one specialist guy who had the scar on his I forget his name, but Clorvis or whatever.
Jagger May:Get a boner, essentially.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. He was sitting there like, yes. Murder the fear boner. And so so it's like you see that dichotomy of, like, some of these people are truly sadists, and they want to just hurt people and and and cause suffering and pain. And then you have the other side of that where you almost have cogs in the machine like Deidre, who is the trigger finger.
Matthew Kopfhamer:She's the one that set all this in motion, but she is now coming to the realization far too late what the real cost and what the real, you know, her like, the cost of her soul is. Like, now she is the true monster of Gorman. Like, no one's gonna remember Tarkin landing on 500 people anymore. They're gonna remember Daedra literally genociding a planet. And
Alfredo Brown:And when you say it's too late, like, she she realized that after As
Matthew Kopfhamer:it's yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like, no way
Jagger May:There's it's almost left that got real for. Yeah. Like, it's it's When you What's Cyril left is, like, you you could see it started getting real. Like, where's Cyril on the because it's like once you're I'm gonna boyfriend, long term relationship, it's like, you lied to me, and what you're doing is fucked. Because, like, even Cyril, the biggest little twat in the fucking galaxy was just like, I thought we were just doing some harmless snitching.
Jagger May:You know? And and you can even do the mental gymnastics that he thinks he's creating order.
Alfredo Brown:But when he's doing the right thing.
Jagger May:Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right.
Jagger May:And he but when you hear that, oh, these people who are just being oppressed and all they want is not to have their planet to be strip mined by boss fucking hog, you know, that that he's just like, oh, wow. We're setting up a genocide at this point. Oh,
Matthew Kopfhamer:you're the baddies. Oh, no.
Jagger May:Yeah. He's like he's like
Alfredo Brown:Alright. Now I can't get it out of my head. I'm just like Cassian driving the general lead. So damn, Cass and or boys again.
Jagger May:This Calcutta goddamn gold mine. God. How did we reduce genocide to a boss hox shit? Because otherwise, we'd all be crying.
Alfredo Brown:That's you. That's all. The the thing with Cyril is, like, he's totally he totally thinks he was in the right for this whole thing. Like, he was doing the what he believed to be the righteous thing. He's he's the the kid that wants to be a cop since he was 10 years old and just grows up wanting to do nothing else but that, does it, and thinks that no matter what, duty is the right thing.
Alfredo Brown:And you get to a point where you don't even question duty anymore. You're just doing it. And, I mean, in a way, like, he still kinda questions his duty. Like, he wanted to do the right thing when when other officers were murdered. Right?
Alfredo Brown:Right. But now it was to the point where he was willing to turn a kind of a blind eye just for trust in the system at this point and Right. Let it all happen and set up these people to be killed.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And it wasn't until he realized
Alfredo Brown:that. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:He didn't he didn't realize until the wool was pulled from his eyes and they actually landed mining equipment on the planet. They was like, oh, you lied to me the entire time. You made me think it was one thing, and it was really just to take the resources from them. And that's what to me, that's what he was most angry about. It wasn't the fact that it was happening to the Gormans.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It was the fact that he had been lied to and hadn't been in on the plan the entire time. I feel like if he had known what the plan was the whole time, he'd still be at Deidre's side. But it's because she lied to him for two years that he crashed out.
Jagger May:And I think you're I think that's part of it. The one thing I'm gonna give Cyril credit is that we do get these time jumps. I think he got a little deep man because we didn't see the actual fallout with him, and you can't be in there that long without relating to this people. Yeah over a year,
Matthew Kopfhamer:man, like,
Jagger May:and he like it related to him like he thought he's like. He thought he's telling on them for Gorman's well-being.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Sake. Right.
Jagger May:For their own sake on there. And then when you when you realize that all this is just a setup, and like you said, cough, it was beautiful. Well, because, like, my fiance was watching with me, and I'm like, wow. This is genius. And she's like, well, what do you mean?
Jagger May:And I I was just like, you could see, old Longbeard over there. He knows what's happening. They're intentionally putting these green horns out here to set shit off. It's like they they made it to where they've covered their bases even with the people who are going to fire first on here. The word just like even these little shoulder skates.
Alfredo Brown:Up on the roof ready to shoot their own.
Matthew Kopfhamer:False flag. Yeah.
Jagger May:And I'm gonna use my quarter in the anime jar. Exact plot, the Fullmetal Alchemist brotherhood on here to set off a war on here. It's the the this but this one's going
Alfredo Brown:false flag. Anime fan. Yes.
Jagger May:I will say I'm not saying he stole it or anything like that because if anything, we saw it done better because we saw the whole setup. It's like, yeah. Put these green horns out here. We saw the masterful propaganda plan that they all had. This is it's crazy just how insidious the empire, yeah, the empire was.
Jagger May:It's wild. You wanna talk about Cyril?
Alfredo Brown:Yes. I wanna talk about Cyril.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You know what's crazy? At the end of the episode when they're talking about the martyrs on the newscast and it cuts to his mom and she's crying, I was like, damn. I actually feel bad for a monster because she lost her baby boy no matter how shitty she was towards him. Like, that's still her little boy. And Poor Adam.
Alfredo Brown:That's her life. And Cyril.
Jagger May:That's her life at that point. You know? You gotta think. I know you were talking about heartbreaking. I genuinely find Cyril to be heartbreaking at that point because it's like you said.
Jagger May:I He's a tragic character. Like, I've known the the the person you described, I've went to school with someone like that that all he wanted to be was a cop or a or a in the military. Failed both. Dude, it's like, like, it's it's incredibly heartbreaking. You see someone like Cyril who thinks he's gonna do the right thing.
Jagger May:He fucked up. Dixie gets re Dixie gets some saving grace, and then you realize that all you were was just a pawn in a genocide. And then not even that, the dude who's been the bane of your existence Thank you. For years says, who? He's like He pulled
Alfredo Brown:a Thanos on him. He's like, I don't even know who you are.
Jagger May:Yeah. Just like
Alfredo Brown:yeah. So the thing with Cyril is that, like, I Jack, it's all the that what you're saying, but it's even magnified that much more. When you look at Cyril, a guy who has these mommy issues where he was never good enough for mommy, all of the the this duty, right, this this this thing he's been chasing is all about giving him value, giving him more validity to just simply existing.
Jagger May:Being somebody.
Alfredo Brown:And and to to do all this work, to devote your life to this, and then to not only have the woman that we believe he loved be lying to him, the duty that he has been attached to for so many years be a farce, and then the the the believed criminal that he was trying to bring to justice and has been in the forefront of his vision this whole time, be a guy that doesn't even know he exists. It was a full circle thing where Cyril just went right back to being that little ISB security guard who was just a cog in the machine who did not have the same vision as the big company around him, and still nobody knew who he was. But finally, his mom saw the value in him. And that's what makes him the most tragic character in the I mean, not most tragic, but a very tragic
Jagger May:character in this.
Alfredo Brown:And and, honestly, like, Deidre started to feel it too. Deidre was worried about him. And, actually, she's interesting. Like, there was there was a lot there where there's times where, one, when Cyril came in and just started choking her out, all I was thinking about is Vader choking people.
Matthew Kopfhamer:She is she is like never been more in love with him. Let's put it that way.
Alfredo Brown:She had such a lady boner.
Jagger May:Form, and I felt fucked up. I was just like, good for you, Cyril. You kinda need this. Like No. That's gross.
Jagger May:I said that. Kill's getting canceled right now.
Alfredo Brown:But it's you know, when when everything happens, right, and then there's basically, they're firing on all these people, you kinda see Deirdre's soul just leave her body. Like, you see the expression on her face go from having questions than not. And then once it's finally done and it's over and she's having this thought process again, She's shaking, and she's like about to cry. And I feel like it's the words of party gas that's still in her head that are saying to avoid getting animated. And I think at that point, she's just a shell of who she ever was.
Alfredo Brown:While we talk about how the rebellion is fighting for humanity, the people on the side of the empire who are doing these things essentially have lost all humanity as well.
Jagger May:You have to.
Alfredo Brown:And you have to. And I think that's where we're at with all these characters is that they're losing their own self humanity, except at least the rebellion is fighting for others to have humanity, whereas the empire I mean, what what are you fighting for?
Matthew Kopfhamer:And I think it's because
Jagger May:Cow guy. Empire side. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:The the loss of humanity on the empire side is because it's so big that the people at the top can separate themselves by having these secret planning meetings where they talk about how are we gonna steal these resources from the people. And it's very conceptual, and so they can remove themselves from the actuality of what that means, what the real cost is gonna be. And then we see it with Deidra literally watching from above where she sees the actual cost is straight up genocide. Like, if we want this resource, we have to remove everyone in our way. And while they're planning that years before, oh, it's just theory.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It's just talk. But when you actually do it is when you see, oh, Jesus Christ. This is the real like, we are this is what this is the the oil that runs the machine of the empire's blood, and she gets to see that firsthand.
Jagger May:Yeah. We're in the shit now. It's basically what she's saying. You know, thinking to herself. You know?
Jagger May:Like, it's it's fuck around and find out at its finest or worse depending on what side you're on.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right. And she really, as a character, I think, has two two ways forward. Either she continues her crash out and and realizes, like, everything she has worked towards is a lie, and she falls and goes to the rebellion or tries to join the rebellion, and then they don't trust her and kill her. Or she just does what a lot of people, unfortunately, in those positions do, and they just double down on the hard line. And now she is even further entrenched in the empire's way of doing doing things.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So I'm really interested to see what her reaction's gonna be in these last three episodes.
Alfredo Brown:Man, it's I it's gonna be interesting to see how this plays out for Deirdre and how this kinda sticks with her and it holds with her. Because we know that with a lot of these characters, these events are going to continue to hold with them and kind of shape who they are. Because Mon Mothma, when we eventually get to her in, you know, the episode four and everything else in between, she's pretty chill. She's calm. She's cool, collected.
Alfredo Brown:She is a competition. Yeah. But I mean, she's a confident leader at that point. Like, right now, she doesn't have any confidence, right? And so we're starting to see, like, how these things shape people.
Alfredo Brown:Something that I think is going to be interesting is to me, I feel like Cassie and keeping K2 or the KX droid, which is what he is right now, is almost like I can't remember what it was. It was like a movie or a show where someone is, like, prepping for a fight and they keep asking their friend to punch them in the face so they can keep the black eye and keep the motivation going every time, like, the shiner starts to fade away. And like, to me, that's kind of what this is almost for Cassian is not just a memento, a token of what happened that day, but it's going to continue to be that motivation to remember what the Empire is capable of. And we just have one of their droids, and they were unleashing these on people. Like, it's going to be that constant reminder of how terrible this is.
Alfredo Brown:And that's honestly what this show is for us, is the constant reminder how terrible this empire is. And it gives that much more value to not only Rogue One, but every movie that comes after it. Not you, sequel series.
Jagger May:Pushing that hand away when it goes in there. It's
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. No. No. No. Not Not you.
Alfredo Brown:You, Last Jedi. Man. Well, boys, anything else you guys wanna add
Jagger May:to this? Because I
Alfredo Brown:think we we we we went through this pretty well. I mean, we got, what, three episodes left here for Andor season two? Mhmm.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I I think it just needs to be said once once again that authoritarianism and colonialism are bad, and we should not support them in the real world. We should fight against them with everything we have.
Jagger May:Well, I'm not gonna listen to that at all. So Sorry for the propaganda, folks. We won't have
Alfredo Brown:a cough back.
Jagger May:We'll make sure to
Matthew Kopfhamer:Fight the power.
Jagger May:Do do you wanna spend the rest of your days in a break? Oh, bye cough. There goes your camera. Cameras. My camera's like,
Alfredo Brown:no. No. Tech is fading
Jagger May:off you. We're actually fading off right now. So I think this is a good time to you. This is the perfect time. This is the perfect time
Alfredo Brown:to get out of here.
Jagger May:You couldn't have planned this better to play.
Alfredo Brown:That's gonna be a wrap for us. As always, we're gonna be back again on, Monday with our review and reaction to The Last of Us. Next week, we're gonna be finishing up Andor. Go back and check out. We've got all kinds of stuff on Black Mirror and White Lotus and Thunderbolts and Daredevil and so many great shows and movies that we've been talking about.
Alfredo Brown:We got a whole bunch of other stuff coming up. So please, as always, leave a review over on the podcast platforms and make sure to like this video, comment down below with your thoughts on the episode. And, of course, as always, I wanna thank you guys for watching and listening all the way through for myself, for Jag, not you, Koff. We'll see you next time. Adios.
Alfredo Brown:Guys, I ran into an issue the other day where my bathroom did not have toilet paper, and I had to squat walk my ass all the way over to the shower and use the big bidet like an adult.
Jagger May:The big bidet. Dude, I I would you got you got a lot of people in your house. I forgot. I was like, buddy, I would do the, like, this the cheek spread and, like, the waddle to get paper towel or something before I'm gonna go full blown bidet myself.
Alfredo Brown:Would look like one of those little kids that walks up to the urinal and just drops his down to his feet.
Jagger May:Got the shirt pulled
Alfredo Brown:up. Just Donald ducking his way across the house.
Jagger May:That's the way God intended us to go to the bathroom. Pants down, shirt pulled up, held with your chin, just like your As you're listening to
Alfredo Brown:this, everybody, just think of us. Pants down in all these various situations.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You're welcome. What I don't understand is why do we keep the toilet paper outside of the bathroom? I keep my extra toilet paper under the sink So that way, I don't have to squat walk across the house.
Alfredo Brown:My my my new house has, like, a a thing where it's, the toilet is in its own little separate room. It's literally a water closet. Like, you are
Matthew Kopfhamer:Lame.
Alfredo Brown:Separated, so you have some privacy. But there's nowhere to store the toilet paper. We have
Matthew Kopfhamer:or we haven't set that up yet. Build a shelf.
Jagger May:See, my my my office bathroom is attached to the laundry room, and the TP goes on the top. So I'm good most of the time. It's Amy's bathroom where, like, she's like, there's no toilet paper in there. And I'm like, that sucks. That's a you thing.
Jagger May:We got separate bathrooms, baby. So Yeah. That's your job.
Alfredo Brown:Because, hey. That sucks for you.
Jagger May:It's like, if if you need me to toss you some soft hands, I got you over the shoulder.
Alfredo Brown:Bring it
Jagger May:all the
Alfredo Brown:way to
Matthew Kopfhamer:the body.
Jagger May:Was about to say, bring it off
Alfredo Brown:the way. Jack out here. Hey, Manny.
Jagger May:Just rockets it. I don't know. She gets so mad at the bathroom, and we don't share about them anymore. And now it's like all the things she was angry about and blaming me on. She realizes it's just her.
Jagger May:I'm just like, like, I love her so much, but I was like, baby, you are a messy bathroom girly, and it's okay. Those girls are
Alfredo Brown:messy in the bathroom.
Jagger May:Dude, they're insane. It's not her.
Alfredo Brown:Ladies, I know you're listening. Y'all are a bunch of messy motherfuckers. Okay? You blame us.
Jagger May:Out in there. Sam,
Alfredo Brown:if you're listening, we know we know the dirty secret.
Jagger May:Yeah. And they take all their rage out on, like, the four facial hairs that are in the sink to, like, look how nasty this is. I'm like, the makeup that spilled all over the counter, is it a problem? Like this thing got more foundation in this house.
Alfredo Brown:That's the opener. Alright. Let's go.
