On today's episode of the unBinged podcast, we're discussing the last of us season two episode five titled feel her love. We have to talk about Ellie. Ellie is going to make or break this show for the viewers. We're gonna talk about that and so much more on an own episode of Unvenged starting.
Samantha Holt:This is your official spoiler warning for Last of Us season two episode five. If you haven't watched that episode, please pause. Go watch that, and then come join us. I'll and watch all the way to the end so you hear all the fun shenanigans talking about this episode because we're gonna spoil the hell out of it.
Alfredo Brown:Guys, I wanna pose this question to you first because it's been the hot topic of discussion with this show. And my question is, does The Last of Us have an Ellie problem? And I wanna preface this by saying by saying, I'm not talking about her looks. I'm not talking about any of the outside stuff with Bella Ramsey. I am talking specifically about this character in the show.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. So if you came here for one of these, stop the woke, like, go go to another video. That's not what we're doing. We are talking about this show. And so much of this show is going to be riding on the performance of Bella Ramsey, how much we like this character of Ellie, how much we wanna go on this ride with Ellie.
Alfredo Brown:This is so different from being in a game where you are that character, and you're forced to empathize with that character. Sam, this is the first episode where I'm kind of I feel like Ellie's losing the shine a little bit.
Samantha Holt:Really? Losing the shine. I feel like when it comes to breaking down the show for video game to what a TV show does, I actually think they're doing a really good job of creating conflicts for her as a character. Because if she were to if we we were to just go through and she's immediately amazing at all of these things, where's the additional buy in? That was what Joel's character was.
Samantha Holt:He already knew how to handle different how handle people, how to, you know, not only kill people, but do it effectively, how to kill, you know, all of the infected, how to do all of these things so successfully because of his maturity, age, past, and all of this stuff. I feel like because it's the game and we're not playing it, getting to have these challenges and see those different things, as a character for a show, I think they're setting her up for these different moments where she has to level up, has to grow up in different ways. And because she's so young, she's struggling, and we get to watch that struggle. And that's the part of the show that I think keeps me at least logged in and dialed in. Because as much as I see her grow in one sense, she has a setback in the next, and then she grows forward again.
Samantha Holt:And then I really like the way we end, obviously, this episode for a couple reasons, but one of which being we see her click in and dial in and level up and go to full blown torture. And, you know, little
Jagger May:what was so
Alfredo Brown:I was gonna ask. How how how have you seen her grow at least in this like, these last few episodes here in the direction that the show is going? For for me and, like, maybe I'm missing something. Right? But, like, I've seen the character devolve more than anything, and I understand.
Alfredo Brown:That's part of, building the story and building, what our character has to overcome. But I haven't seen the character grow, and they're focusing on her so much now without anyone else really around it. We kinda got a taster of Isaac. You know?
Samantha Holt:Yeah. Are you raising your hand, Koff?
Alfredo Brown:Koff? Yeah. Yes, sir. In the front row.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You. Yes. I just wanna point out, like, the one scene that I felt showed growth from Ellie was after Jesse saves them. They're going through the woods or the park. And she's like, we were doing just fine.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And he's like, until when? Or and, like, he claps back at her. And she's she stops, and she's like, you're right. We fucked up. Like, thank you.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And I I feel like that was like, four episodes ago, she would not have admitted that. She would have been like, we were fine. We could have taken care of ourselves. But now she's in a place where she lost the most important person to her, Joel, and she's coming to realize she is not invincible. She may be immune, but she is still very much able to get ripped apart by these stalkers that we saw the scene before.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So I think we're seeing her it's subtle, but we are seeing her growth. And we are seeing her come to grips with what's more important, you know, Dina, this relationship, the community, or my revenge. And we kinda saw her pick revenge at the end of the episode. Now you could justify it by saying she doesn't know where Jesse and Dina are. Dina's hurt.
Matthew Kopfhamer:She has this She had
Alfredo Brown:that movie where she was ready she was willing to go back. Yeah. Right. Exactly. That's like growth.
Alfredo Brown:She has that bright spot.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Exactly. So we are seeing subtle hints that she is growing as a person, but she still is overwhelmed with this desire to get her revenge. Because let's admit, like, she's 19, and she just got violently ripped away from the person that she loves and had to watch them die in the most horrific way possible. So she's struggling with this internal dilemma of do I forgive and forget, or do I get mine? And and I I feel like for most of the episode, she was ready to forgive and forget because of Dina and and for her safety.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But now at the end of this episode, we see her, like you said, kinda devolve into revenge fantasy. And and the fact that she went full torture on Nora shows, like, she is she may be almost too far gone.
Alfredo Brown:And there's a god complex thing with Ellie at this point. And I think that just kinda showed its face even more once we got the airborne spores and and all that. Like, there there there's there's a bit like, she realized, like, oh, damn. I'm two levels above everyone else at this point. So, like and that that, I think we can Jack, you wanted to say something about it?
Jagger May:No. Continue. I I I got a whole thing. So I feel like you
Alfredo Brown:because, like, to to me, like, Ellie is the thing with Ellie is that she's kinda going full Paul Atreides here where she's just like, I am so much better than everyone else because I am the one with the cure. I am so different. And, like, there there's those moments where she tells Dina, like, you go. I can get bit a lot. Right?
Alfredo Brown:And it's just kind of like, yeah. You can, but you can also still die, girl. And, you know, it's like she kinda had that moment where she's walking through the spores, and you see her face change, her eyes change, her voice changes, everything to the point where it's like, oh, she's she's really starting to sip her own Kool Aid a little bit. And it's not that I don't want these changes from this character. It's that the show is at a point where she's kind of the only character that we're really revolving around constantly.
Alfredo Brown:And it starts to make me feel like we've used this this comp a lot, Game of Thrones, where you have the Arya training episodes, a girl has no name. And, like, yeah, eventually got some great payoff, but, like, there's only two episodes left of this season. And I know they're splitting the game the the the second part of the game into multiple seasons here, seems. Next episode looks like it's gonna be a flashback. And I don't know that we're gonna get the payoff that we want.
Alfredo Brown:If anything, I feel like the show, unfortunately, at least for me as a viewer, is almost like turning me off to Ellie as a character because I'm struggling to resonate with her. I don't find her as likable as maybe it was before. And now we're gonna have a flashback episode where Joel shows up, and you're like, oh, daddy Pedro's back. I love you. I miss you so much.
Samantha Holt:Daddy Pedro.
Alfredo Brown:And it has me worried. It has me worried. Like, are we going to then is it going to enhance Ellie, make her a better character, which is is as I think that's the job it needs to do, or is it gonna make us miss Joel even more and create a bigger chasm between the viewer and Ellie?
Jagger May:To me to me, that's the gamble, and lots to unpack there. I have to say this. I'm gonna say the boring thing. You shouldn't breathe in spores of anything regardless of your immunity. Like, the entire time, I'm like, girl, where is the PPE around here?
Jagger May:I was like, like, it's like, cool. You're not gonna you're not gonna get fucking cordyceps, but cancer, here we
Jagger May:come. I just love it.
Alfredo Brown:You're watching this, you're like, oh, that can't be good for her. Yeah.
Jagger May:You can at least get a cold. Oh, honey.
Jagger May:I was like, you should literally would, like, ice a landscape. You can't like, when you're crunching up leaves and stuff, you have to have pee pee not to breathe that stuff in, but that's not that's beside the point. I just had to say that. I wanna do you guys mind if I use a Batman reference? Do
Matthew Kopfhamer:we?
Jagger May:It is much easier. We trust Batman when we go back and see Batman Begins, Batman Year One, whatever thing like that, where we see Batman look terrible. But anytime when we see the Robins take over, they're polished because they had Bruce. And right now, we don't have that right now with Ellie. Like, Ellie didn't have Bruce very long, and she's a very bad Batman.
Jagger May:And we have to watch her be fucking terrible, and it's hard to look at.
Samantha Holt:So She's in a rookie season. She's gotta, like Yep. Gonna let her cook.
Jagger May:Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Well, you say, you let her cook. What what is it that you are expecting from Ellie here or or wanting from Ellie where you feel like this is gonna be worth it, where her character is gonna make us appreciate the show and and the character a little bit more.
Samantha Holt:Appreciate the show or just mean, I think for myself, we know what situation I
Alfredo Brown:think they're kinda one and the same. Yeah. Because she's so, like, she's so central to it. She's so centric.
Samantha Holt:Well, I think
Matthew Kopfhamer:She's the main protagonist.
Samantha Holt:She is the main protagonist, but we're also watching other characters make really smarter decisions than she is. So we watch Dina, you know, working with the map, trying to figure out where everyone is and calculating all these routes. I feel like we need to have this payoff of a solution solving Ellie, where she's really good at getting herself into situations where she has to either, you know, survive or die, and she's a survivor. But I think we're looking for that element of cognitive ability to problem solve for x, and she's in a really tough situation as of the end of this episode. So she's obviously down at the Second Basement Level of this hospital.
Samantha Holt:WLF knows someone's down there because Nora ran through the hospital saying, shoot her. So we know that and she we also know how many exits are blocked off. So she's gonna have to level up significantly after we get this flashback to figure out how to get out of this situation. I think through that adversity, obviously, we're gonna have to see some forced growth that's gonna have to she's gonna have to make some very smart decisions to get out of there alive.
Jagger May:Yeah. That's smart, Sam, and it's
Samantha Holt:I try to
Jagger May:be One more thing, Coffey. It's like, Alfredo, like, you're what you're saying, the Ellie problem. Ellie is the problem. Like, she creates the problem. She's like like like, kinda like Jesse coming there.
Jagger May:It's like, do you think I wanna fucking talk to you right now? Or just like, left and did a whole thing, and now you're pissing off two groups here. So it's like, we we need Ellie to be a solution more often than just like like, she she's arguably an antagonist at this point. Because if you gotta think, this was from, like, Tommy's perspective, you're like, oh, I've got this angry teenager causing issues for my entire settlement. And I and I and that's me saying I agree with both of see where Alfredo is at.
Jagger May:But, Sam, you're you're correct in that, like, she's a central character. And then what the only thing to fix it is just, man, just fix your own problem one time. Like like like, get yourself out of something because it's been Dino who gets it together. Now it's been Jesse. Before that, it was Joel.
Jagger May:Like, like, the the time that we liked Ellie the most is at the end of season one when she's killing pedophiles. You know? Like like, bring that shit back. Let's just not go Yes. Angry yeah.
Jagger May:Let's not go angry into willy nilly territories. Like, even when they made a bad decision, why are they ignoring this huge building? I'm like, oh, why? Why would they ignore that in this massive apocalypse? A a dark, damp building that fungus love loves.
Jagger May:It's just shit like that that gets old.
Alfredo Brown:What what she's reminding me of right now is a little bit of Anakin in in episode three when he's kinda making that heel turn. Not saying that she's making the heel turn, but it's like, this is the person you've been with on this journey, and it's just like every decision they're making is just really fucking frustrating
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Throughout the whole time. And it gets so hard to root for that person, not because it's a poorly written character or not because it's a poor acting job, but just because, like, the likability starts to drain away little by little by little. With Anakin, we had the benefit of the doubt. It's like, that's gonna be Darth Vader. Spoilers, by the way, if you haven't watched that fucking movie.
Jagger May:No. What, man?
Alfredo Brown:I I mean, Tony Stark does. Like, there there was so much that was coming, and there was so much more weight to it. Whereas, like, with this character, all we're sitting here thinking is like, dang. My dog, Joel, just died. And, like, we're we're continuously comparing that, the same thing over and over and over.
Alfredo Brown:Joel to Ellie. Joel to Ellie. It's unfair to her. It's unfair to the character. But as the viewer, I feel like we're kinda stuck in that mode until there is that that nice payoff.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Mhmm.
Samantha Holt:I mean, we even had that little callback of, you know, Jesse's walking through the haze, and we see this character coming to save her. And I think even Ellie is having this moment of, like, but it's not Joel. Who's coming save her?
Jagger May:Yeah. I know.
Alfredo Brown:Papa, can you hear me?
Jagger May:Oh my god.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Speaking of That's it. The scene with Jesse
Jagger May:Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:What I really like is it was kind of a throwaway line. But when they're like, how did you find us? And he's like, you left the map in the theater. Like, we just followed your map. So Mhmm.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It's that little moment right there that I wanna see Ellie and Tina, to a lesser extent, kinda latch onto that and use that as a growth moment. And so next time, they're not gonna be as reckless with leaving out, you know, their maps and their plans. Or like like they said, well, like, this giant building's empty. Why do you think that is? Probably because it's in full of infected.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It's really reckless. Well They did see they're like, well, fuck it. Let's be reckless.
Samantha Holt:In there. Yeah. Yeah. They just didn't anticipate a
Matthew Kopfhamer:But, right, but they also have pretty sound logic where they're like, look. The the wolves are patrolling all around. They make a ton of noise. Like, if it was really a horde, they wouldn't just stay in this building. They they would get out.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So from one perspective, it's like, yes, they're being reckless, but they're being reckless to a degree that they feel comfortable with after growing up in a postapocalyptic world full of infected. So I feel like that was a There's gonna
Alfredo Brown:be a natural amount of of recklessness in this kind of world. Like, it that percentage doesn't go away. No.
Jagger May:So I thought that was
Matthew Kopfhamer:I I felt like that was an acceptable amount of recklessness because it's like, hey. They laid it out what all their their rationale was for. And I was like, yeah. That all makes sense. Like, sure.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You're probably gonna get into a sticky situation, but you're comfortable because of your past experience.
Alfredo Brown:The unfair thing is the contrast of then having a Jesse show up and just spraying bullets, you're like, ah, the hero is here. Whether that was the intention of the show or not
Matthew Kopfhamer:I think that was intentional.
Alfredo Brown:That was that that was the vibe where it's like, damn. All those people complaining about this little angry girl. Like, they kinda got a little validated when the big man showed up with his big automatic weapon and saved the day. You know, it's like, that's where I want to see that growth where it's like, Ellie, you are Joel at this point. You can take care of yourself.
Alfredo Brown:You can do more than just keep spamming the they can bite me. It's okay. Like, she's using that move a little too many times. It's like You think
Jagger May:you still get infected by, like, fucking tetanus and shit like that from bite
Alfredo Brown:Jagger's here just being pragmatic as fuck.
Jagger May:Just thinking big for her.
Alfredo Brown:There's no flu shot.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. We also we've seen her be that like, early in the season when they go through the what was it? The the general store or whatever after they discover the bear. Like Yeah. We have seen Ellie get herself out of situations.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And even against a a stalker. Right? The smarter breed. So I feel like they did a really good job with that scene of setting up. Be like, hey.
Matthew Kopfhamer:There's one. Here's how we're gonna deal with it. We're gonna flank it. And then, oh oh, shit. There's, 15 of them.
Matthew Kopfhamer:We are fucked. Yeah. And so Ellie then in that moment's like, look. I love you more than I love myself right now, so you go protect yourself. I'll be the sacrifice.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And if it hadn't been for Jesse following them, then she would have gotten ripped apart. But I feel like not only was that intentional, that was needed because that's another moment of Ellie realizing, ah, shit. Like, this is a little bit bigger than I expected. Maybe I should have taken one more step back and really thought this through and not been as reckless. So, again, it they're they're playing both sides of this the coin at this point with the show where it's like, they're showing that past experience has given them this this, outlook on, hey.
Matthew Kopfhamer:We can do x, y, and z. But the reality is there's, like, 16 other letters behind z that they don't realize.
Jagger May:Yep. And the the big thing on the building and and this does come with experience. They're making the classic chess mistake when you're a rookie chess player where you only consider the board from your own perspective. Because here's a key point here. They said that, well, why would like, it's probably just a few clickers or something in there.
Jagger May:Like, a horde would go and attack them. If they didn't think about it that maybe if they have a full militarized army and this is their territory, why wouldn't they go in there and clear it out? That is something they didn't ask themselves, and that that was their key fault. But, that is something that
Alfredo Brown:Dina mentioned something about that where she's like, well, why is this the only spot that they're not at? Yeah.
Jagger May:She does say
Alfredo Brown:she does say something about it. But, like, but you what you're saying is correct. Like, they still didn't they didn't put the weight to it that that statement needed.
Jagger May:Yes. But and then the last point here well, it's not last point. It's kinda this the the first point that you made here. We have a friends and how I met your mother problem here. And at first, I had complaints where I said that I don't wanna learn about another cult or these other new things.
Jagger May:I am finding everyone else more interesting than the main character. I'm like, like, like, get this nigga Ted Mosby off the ox. Like, I don't need this shit here.
Alfredo Brown:Ellie Ellie is Ted Mosby and Ross?
Jagger May:He it feels like it right now. Like, they got this annoying you got an annoying person.
Alfredo Brown:That's a good comp. If we had a last of us rookie guide right now. That's her that's her player comp. Ted Mosby and Ross. Oh
Jagger May:my god.
Jagger May:Yeah. Like, I don't I don't wanna put it that that hard on there, but she's on she's on notice. Let's put that way. She's on Ross watch on here because Okay. Like you said, you're like like, oh, Ross created a problem for himself, and now it's a whole season of this show.
Jagger May:It's just You're on a break.
Alfredo Brown:By the way, don't get me wrong. Like, I wanna I wanna say this probably saying it a little too late now in the show. This is not, us condemning Bella Ramsey's performance at all
Samantha Holt:in this
Jagger May:show writing.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Or anything else. Like, it's just it's writing, and there also still may just be a payoff. There may be something that's really good that we're just not there yet. But at the moment, as a viewer, this is where we sort of get.
Alfredo Brown:I think it's kinda unfair because of just the way Pedro is is gone and all that and the change. Before we go on, I just wanna remind everybody, you can watch or listen to Unbinge either here on YouTube or over on Apple or Spotify. So please, if you're watching here, take a moment to like this video, comment down below with your thoughts on the episode, make sure you're subscribed. We've been talking about a whole bunch of stuff. As of lately, we did a couple episodes of Black Mirror.
Alfredo Brown:We did our spoiler and non spoiler reviews for Thunderbolt. We're talking about Andor. We got one more three episode arc on that. It's been great. Guys, last of us.
Alfredo Brown:We got two more episodes after this. It's It's getting close. Do do I wanna say it's concern? Are you guys concerned that there's only two episodes left?
Jagger May:I'm tired of me splitting seasons up.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. I want more.
Jagger May:But this way, the
Matthew Kopfhamer:fact that it's only seven episodes for this season kinda pisses me off. Like, what Just
Jagger May:make it 12 episodes and put everything together. Maybe make take on me. Maybe only do half the fucking song. I don't know. There's a Like, there's a lot you're your budget.
Alfredo Brown:Well, like, what worries me is that next episode is going to be primarily flashback with Joel.
Jagger May:Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:And then I mean, the final episode of this season is probably going to be An Isaac confrontation. Mhmm. Oh, or an Isaac confrontation or an Abby encounter. Like, we're not supposed to have much Abby at all. It it obviously, there's gonna be some sort of big cliffhanger going into the third season, which is going to finish off, part two of the game.
Alfredo Brown:But I think as a viewer, like, we're probably gonna need more because audiences appear to be very on edge about this show right now. Yeah.
Jagger May:The reviews aren't glowing.
Samantha Holt:The reviews aren't glowing?
Alfredo Brown:It's hard to give it the benefit of the doubt. Yeah.
Jagger May:Yeah. And
Alfredo Brown:it's I think
Jagger May:that's where we're at. And we're past the angry, like like, not my Caitlyn Deaver and then or not or I I don't like Caitlin Deaver. I don't like, we're past that to where it's just like, we actually have real critiques now. It's not just angry nerds that's like, I can't jack it to this. You know?
Jagger May:Like, it's it's the their grossness and shit like that.
Alfredo Brown:But I had to I had to explain the word incel to my wife this morning. She had never heard it. And she's like, you know, I hate acronyms and shortened words and slang. She's like, I don't know any of that shit. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:It was it was it was a fun
Jagger May:car ride. Necessary word we need. We need to define it. We need to once you define the problem and identify it, you can start to
Jagger May:address it. So
Alfredo Brown:this episode felt a little different to me, and I have who here has played the game?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Cough. Not the second one. Just the first one.
Alfredo Brown:Okay. I I haven't played the second one either. I've been playing the first one. This episode to me felt the most like the game that we've had so far, even from her being able to pick up the the pipe, the weapon. You know?
Alfredo Brown:Like, we get the introduction of the spores, which you only have in the game, and they they chose I actually love that they chose to introduce that later in the show because it's it's the the evolution of the problems around our characters. But most of the so much of the game is hiding and being able to attack one on one and not making a big scene so that you don't get attacked by people around you, by the cordyceps around you. And this felt very the scene where they're in that warehouse with all the stalkers around them felt exactly like when I fucking die every single time in this game, and you get that reloading screen, and I'm doing it eight, nine, 10 times and cursing up a storm in this room because you can't get past that one point. And I guess that's maybe where the frustration comes as a viewer. We're like, I'm so stupid.
Alfredo Brown:As a gamer, you're like, alright. Let's run it back. Ball up top. You know? But you don't get that option with Ellie.
Alfredo Brown:So you're you're you're frustrated as a viewer. Did did this feel different to you this episode for this for Jagger and Sam? As people who have not played the game, was there anything that felt different to you at all?
Jagger May:In the moment, it felt gamey. Because, like, sometimes within the like, season one, I was like, oh, we got a weapons cache. Like, like, I've played a video game before, so, like, I feel the video game elements within there. So, like, the only thing is, like, the the does the game have, like, interrogate? Like, you have a choice.
Jagger May:Just, play nice or or or use the iron. Yeah. Exactly. Like like like like, that that's fine.
Alfredo Brown:Where is she?
Jagger May:Yeah. Where's Rachel? Just never start with the head. At least the victim's all fussy.
Jagger May:No. I definitely
Samantha Holt:feel like it felt more gamey, I think. And even the way it was shot too, the reveals were very gamey in terms of, like, when you get into that scene with the stalker and then, you know, it's like the flashlight pans. Oh.
Jagger May:Pops.
Samantha Holt:Eyes. Eyes light. And then you turn again, two more. And then you turn again, there's more. And I definitely feel like there was some really interesting visual play there in terms of the reveals of the infected that very much felt video gamey.
Samantha Holt:Even in terms of, like, how Especially
Matthew Kopfhamer:the basement.
Samantha Holt:The basement definitely, a % felt very video gamey. But when Dina, on the other hand, aside from Ellie, we've been talking about her, she's sitting in that voltage container where she's got, you know, the mesh coming down, and you've got everyone going around. The views that were going around were very video gamey. As someone that only plays Smash Brothers, I never had success with any games that had, like, the look around
Alfredo Brown:That game
Samantha Holt:was the move around because then I would, like, look at the ground, look at the ceiling, look at the ground, look the ceiling whenever I tried to play Halo. So to me, there was a little bit of that of Dina looking around of, there's just so much you're overwhelmed of, like, the panic gamer. I I cannot you know? I'm
Alfredo Brown:really I'm not gonna lie. I'm not I'm not good at those games either. I kinda suck at first person shooters. In Halo, I only I only walk around with the swords.
Jagger May:Oh, I was gonna see what I get. Yeah. That's sweet.
Alfredo Brown:I'm one of those. I'm one
Jagger May:of those.
Alfredo Brown:In GoldenEye, I'm I'm walking around doing slappers only. Oh, yeah. Those. I'm those. I would run around.
Alfredo Brown:I'd be like, Hulk hands. And that's it. Like, and then I'd run away. Only.
Samantha Holt:Making you feel better.
Alfredo Brown:Rocket launchers. Yeah.
Jagger May:I was alright. I I ain't got shit on these little kids now,
Jagger May:but No.
Alfredo Brown:Wild. It's wild.
Jagger May:Little kids are born with the with the, no. They're, like, born with chucks in their hands, man. They're, like, like
Matthew Kopfhamer:Dude, it's so humbling in your ass beat by a 10 year old. It's like, goddamn it.
Jagger May:They're just roasting the shit out of you. Was like, I don't even know what a fucking robot is.
Alfredo Brown:You get I don't know what's a robot. You you just get off work. You're like, alright. Time to play. You get on there.
Alfredo Brown:It's a little nine year old kid from Germany. He's like, Jonas. He's whooping
Jagger May:your ass.
Samantha Holt:That was adorable.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Dude, it was
Alfredo Brown:Oh, man. Sam, you mentioned the part where, like, the the stalker is up there, and they reveal the one. Mhmm. I audibly gasped. I was I was watching that one.
Alfredo Brown:Like, it was Gabby's like, you okay? And I was like, you gotta see this shit. And I paused it, and she was like, oh, that's creepy. It was really creepy. Felt the fear in that moment.
Alfredo Brown:Those stalkers, man, they they creep me out way more than the clickers or anything else.
Jagger May:And the fucking they got these weird The little antlers? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Things on there? I Yeah.
Samantha Holt:I love watching the after the episode two of them breaking down how they shot it. And what's interesting is they have coordinators that are specifically telling the actors person. How to move and how they would move in all of these different instances. And I think that's ultimately what's gonna make the show so successful and continue to stay successful is their, buy into making this the game but the but the show. And it's not deviating from what the zombies and what the infected do.
Samantha Holt:It's staying true to that. So even the evolution of watching, you know, what these ones are doing down in the basement with releasing spores, it's this buildup to again, we've talked about this a lot this season, talking about the evolution of the infected and how they continue to evolve while the humans don't. So fascinating how they're continuing to break it down and show these different levels of all the infected.
Jagger May:And I really feel terrible. How alive do you think the spore people are? You know? Do you think that the that they're just working lungs at all? Or you're just kinda, like, half life there?
Jagger May:Just, like
Alfredo Brown:They're bootstrap Bill and the flying dutchman. Right? Yeah.
Jagger May:That's actually what I felt there. And then, like, like, you're just forever forever vaping pores.
Jagger May:If I'm forever vaping. If I'm
Matthew Kopfhamer:remembering if I'm remembering the lore right, they're only aware for a certain amount of time, and then it's like they're too far gone, and then they're no longer. So I forget what the timeline is, but it it's like they get to a certain level and they're just they're gone gone.
Jagger May:Because I wonder if what what benefit or, like, if it would call more people if they, like, shot because, like, me, I'm like, why don't you shoot then? That seems sad as fuck. You sitting there like a human fucking bong. Like, just, like, like, kill
Jagger May:you know?
Matthew Kopfhamer:They're an air conditioner. They're human air conditioners. They're just conditioners.
Jagger May:Either way.
Alfredo Brown:They're they're no. They're human humidifiers.
Jagger May:That that's the one. That's the one. Yeah.
Samantha Holt:Releasing spores. No. Or even to the extent we talk about, you know, why WLF didn't do anything to this building. If they're aware of something's being released down there, why don't they burn the building down? Like, we know that
Matthew Kopfhamer:Because fire. It's nuts. They address
Alfredo Brown:nuts. They're like, know what? Let's just close this door.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Hospital. They address that. They yes. It's too valuable of a resource because it's a hospital that they can't just abandon it. They can't just burn it down.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Like, they need it. So they're just like, the solution is fucking just sell it. Seattle's got other hospitals.
Jagger May:But that could be a different Maybe they could hospital's a building, and the people are and the equipment are what make the hospital. It's kinda like a church except you need tools.
Alfredo Brown:Hospital's not a place to people is what you're saying.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yes. But we've seen Yeah. But we've seen Seattle and how dilapidated most of Seattle is. So this may be the only building. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Maybe the only building that can support that amount of people, that amount of equipment that you know, who knows? Like, they're they they they give us one line where she's like, the hospital's too big of a resource for us to abandon. So you did the right thing. We owe you a debt. Sorry about your son.
Alfredo Brown:How are you not up in the Space Needle right now? Just wanna say that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:They they do
Alfredo Brown:That would have
Jagger May:been the first night. Go.
Alfredo Brown:That's They had
Jagger May:the sniper The first
Jagger May:to go? Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. In the space needle? Did did I catch that? I thought he
Jagger May:was just like Yes. No. He was Hanging out on top of
Alfredo Brown:a building. I didn't realize that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:No. That was the space needle. If I'm unless I'm wrong, that was the space needle that he was sniping and and doing the whole, like, calling on the cover thing. Manny, I think. Right?
Jagger May:Another thing too is and this is a small detail about super important when grandma Imelda was talking to what's her face. They said
Jagger May:that
Jagger May:Isaac was brokering the treaty with the scar. So, like, like, I wonder I wonder how far or or when the peace treaty broke. Because with this timeline, it feels like it's a little bit more recent for the treaty or whatever pact that they made, to break. And I'm curious, like, that this is what I'm saying. Like, I I I first, I was not interested in this all these battles between humanity and shit like that because it's useful or useless, But, like, now they've sparked my interest.
Jagger May:I kinda wanna see this collapse. I I wanna know more about the Seraphites. Like like, who was Sarah? What the fuck did she do? Did she just, like
Matthew Kopfhamer:Feel like
Jagger May:take mushrooms and roast write some bottles down in a book and then people, like, worshiped it. That's kinda how the bible happened. Sorry for people who are gonna get mad at me for saying that. But, like, that's just like, I mean, I'm I'm so curious about everything else going on in Seattle at this point that, like, almost the Joel flashback, I want it to be shorter. Like, just tell us tell us how you told Ali.
Jagger May:That's let's yeah. Let's kinda keep on moving.
Alfredo Brown:That's the big thing about this show is that I think last episode, when I was saying is, man, like, we can we can quell all of our worries because they're doing some world building. They're expanding on these new characters. They're bringing in Isaac, and they're looking at all these other and then that kinda got stunted a little bit this episode and then realizing there's only two episodes left, and one of them is gonna be just a straight flashback episode. Kind of feels like this season, it's a little bit in itself is more of a bridge season where it's like, look at how good this can be, understand that potential. And then in season three, we're gonna give you that.
Alfredo Brown:That's kinda what it feels like at
Jagger May:this point.
Alfredo Brown:Maybe I'm I'm like, I'm just overthinking that, but that's where it feels like we're at at this point. I think our job is
Jagger May:Are we gonna get two years again? Are are they gonna do that shit to us where it's just
Alfredo Brown:like
Matthew Kopfhamer:I
Alfredo Brown:saw a
Jagger May:report. Episodes. See you next administration.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I saw a report that they may not start filming the next season until 2026. So then it may not release until middle to late twenty twenty seven.
Alfredo Brown:Oh, boy. This is some bullshit.
Samantha Holt:To get other
Jagger May:I'm way over. I'm I'm way over. There's only, like, seven good shows on TV anyway. You know? Like like like, Max is pushing this other show that I don't even know the name of it.
Jagger May:I refuse it. I'm like, this looks like, why did you pay money on this? Start making more last of us. Like like, do do the roar. You know?
Jagger May:Do the roar.
Alfredo Brown:Sam, hit us with some positivity. I feel like you're the one that is enjoying not in we're all
Jagger May:enjoying it.
Jagger May:It's just We're
Alfredo Brown:all enjoying it. But I think that Sam has the most optimistic look at it where she always kinda brings us back to Earth where we where the three of us need to be.
Jagger May:You are a sunshine. You're the only sunshine.
Samantha Holt:That's funny because I feel like I'm not sunshine in the rest of my life. But I'm a sunshine to you guys, which also says a lot too. But
Jagger May:Yes. That's
Alfredo Brown:an abyssal.
Jagger May:Impressive font. It is dark.
Samantha Holt:No. I feel like kinda like what I said earlier, I feel like we know how this episode ends. Obviously, Ellie's gotten herself into the shit, and we're about to get a flashback where we get our Zaddy Pedro back, and that feels wonderful. Which, by the way, if you look up the word Zaddy on urban dictionary, Pedro Pascal is the fourth explanation for what the term means, which I think says a lot. But, anyways, I'm excited to get him Okay.
Samantha Holt:And excited to get him back. We we know we're gonna learn from him. God bless.
Alfredo Brown:Kops, what is that? Why okay. Do you disagree? Daughter's fault. Or you just don't know?
Jagger May:You just don't care.
Jagger May:It was Kops like, okay.
Jagger May:Sorry. Wait.
Samantha Holt:Do not do you not know what a zaddy is? Because I did I did squeeze out the explanation for you.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I mean, give it to somebody.
Jagger May:She has it ready.
Alfredo Brown:She did the deep dive.
Samantha Holt:She did.
Jagger May:Send that to Alfredo so you could like, let's spark this time stamp so we can bring it to the rest of the class and present it. Let's get this
Jagger May:out here.
Alfredo Brown:Let's get this on the shelf.
Samantha Holt:A fine ass man who is usually older than you, takes care of you, treats you good, and loves you right. That's what
Alfredo Brown:If that ain't Pedro
Jagger May:I don't know what is.
Samantha Holt:The other explanation is Pedro Pascal is the biggest zaddy.
Jagger May:That's Feel like Grogu Grogu wrote that zaddy explanation. Oh
Samantha Holt:my god. No. Pedro Pascal, please trust us when we say that Zaddy cannot be Grogu's first words.
Jagger May:If Mandalorian and Grogu doesn't open up like that, I'm gonna be fucking pissed. Like like like like Mandalor and Grogu ends with his first run. Zaddy.
Samantha Holt:He's running to him with his hands up. So cute.
Jagger May:Yeah. I don't know where it was. Unexpected Star Wars crossover.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. I think I think we need this Pedro episode.
Samantha Holt:We do. I do
Alfredo Brown:feel I think it's gonna make us all feel a lot better. I wonder if it's gonna be kind of like the season one. Was that episode three with Bill? Yeah. Where you got, like, you get the emotional flashback of it all.
Alfredo Brown:And and, yeah, it didn't necessarily push the story forward, but it enhanced the characters that you were around. And and I'm thinking that's probably what ends up happening here.
Samantha Holt:I think that that we need this flashback because Ellie needs this. She's just gotten herself into such a terrible situation where she doesn't she's gonna struggle to get out of it, And she's gonna need this flashback to reinstill all that Joel has taught her over the amount of time. Over those five years, we didn't get to see everything that she learned from him and begin to put all of these tools into action as opposed to just Mhmm. Those are memories that, you know, Joel did this and Joel did that versus Joel did this. I can do this.
Samantha Holt:I can now do this. And really starting to put those puzzle pieces together to better herself and also become, you know, a bigger, you know, resource for Dina. Because right now, Dina's the big resource to Ellie. So she wants to be able to step as well up as well and obviously be a part of this big, you know, love triangle family that they now have with Jesse and be able to step up and be able to protect and be able to do these different things. So
Alfredo Brown:Oh, Jesse
Matthew Kopfhamer:But not only that.
Samantha Holt:Jesse doesn't? No. But he's the OTL.
Jagger May:Thank you for saying it. Almost said it like every second.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But not only that, but Ellie reveals. And Not you, I think.
Jagger May:Just his little cool game. But
Matthew Kopfhamer:not only that, but I think the flashback episode is important because what's revealed at the end of this episode when she's confronting Nora, she knew Joel killed everyone in the hospital for her.
Jagger May:Yeah. Why
Matthew Kopfhamer:did she have she find yeah. When did she find that out? And I think that's gonna be the central tension in the flashback episode is we're gonna see, oh, we're in Jackson. We're all safe hunky dory, and then that the evolution of the relationship over those five years. And like you're saying, Sam, it's gonna remind her of what pay what, yeah, what Pedro taught her, but it's also gonna be for us, the audience, the reveal of, like, what fractured their relationship.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And I think that's You think it was for the season.
Alfredo Brown:You think you think it was that night after, Pedro pushes bigot Seth down to the ground, and then he's there on the
Samantha Holt:No.
Alfredo Brown:On the porch, and she comes back and they talk about before that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Way before that.
Jagger May:Because she was mad. Like, now we know why she was mad. Like like, now we know it's like, hey. Yeah. She's mad that, like, you didn't give me a choice, and you gave me this Jesus complex but didn't allow me to Okay.
Jagger May:Use those powers. So yeah.
Alfredo Brown:The way he spoke to Gail almost made it sound like he hadn't told her yet. Like, he was still keeping it. No. Think he has said he
Matthew Kopfhamer:was I don't think he ever admitted it, but I think yeah. I I don't think he ever admits it to Ellie, but Ellie's not dumb. Like, I think she puts two and two together and
Jagger May:is like, oh.
Alfredo Brown:I'm just kidding.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Oh, you chose me instead of choosing a cure. And I think that's gonna be what really cause we know in episode one of the season, she had already moved out of his house and was on her own, like, a separate living space. So that relationship was already at a a, you know, on a rocky path.
Alfredo Brown:So She was on her own kinda like how Will Smith lived on his own in Bel Air.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Sure.
Alfredo Brown:Like, was in the full
Matthew Kopfhamer:house. Community. Yeah. Yeah. But still, there was that there was that abyss between them that I think this next episode is really gonna explore, and then it'll put a lot of things into context for us as an audience.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yep.
Samantha Holt:I mean, because you also mentioned
Alfredo Brown:We need it.
Samantha Holt:You know, Ellie's conflicted. I mean, you can feel the confliction of, like, do I just abandon my, you know, revenge journey right now and just go back with Dina? Why do I have to feel like I need to go and see this through? And even when Nora is saying, like, you don't you know what he did? You know what he did?
Samantha Holt:And she says, I know. There's gotta be another level to that where she feels even more justified in continuing this revenge rather than even putting herself in those shoes and seeing like, well, Joel did this terrible thing. These people are justified in why they did it. There's none of that for her. She is still hell bent.
Samantha Holt:So I feel like we're gonna get the answer for, you know, that hell for leather energy she has just going after them, and we'll probably feel more more Indeed. Into it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And Dina basically gave her permission with her story of how she killed the raider that killed her mom and sister. And she's like, even if my family had hurt one of his first, I would have still hunted him down forever if I hadn't taken him out in the moment. So I think that's Dina basically giving Ellie permission to be like, hey. I'm ride or die. I get it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Like, let's go fuck these people up because they they started it. Doesn't matter what Joel did.
Jagger May:Yeah. And and it's it's the way he died. And then another thing that, again, we don't think about
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right.
Jagger May:The chessboard from every perspective. They lied to Joel. You know? It's like, hey. Go make this buddy cop movie with this little girl.
Jagger May:We may or may not kill her at the end.
Jagger May:Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you know,
Jagger May:it is kinda fucked up.
Alfredo Brown:The way they throw out that Abby's dad is the only doctor that could have made a cure
Matthew Kopfhamer:How do you know that?
Jagger May:It's like That's what
Alfredo Brown:I was about. One, how do you know that? And two, like, that's also an interesting way to put that he's the one that was going to kill her as well. Like, it's just eye of the beholder shit at that point.
Samantha Holt:Also, like, messiah complex. We're talking about god complex for Ellie. I mean, that doctor could have had a god complex as well. Like, I'm the only one that can do the solution, which you're in a post apocalyptic era. You're not in the best research facilities.
Samantha Holt:If you had even gotten something out of Ellie, are you a % sure you would have been able to make a vaccine out of it? Like, probably gonna be a while to even do that, let alone get close. Best case scenario, you crack her up and be like, well, there's spores in her brain, and somehow she's still fine.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Nothing we can do.
Samantha Holt:Nothing we can do. Like, so Oops.
Jagger May:Sorry. Sorry. That's all
Matthew Kopfhamer:in there. You know, to play devil's advocate for a second, you gotta crack a few eggs and make an omelet. So I also get that respect.
Alfredo Brown:Harsh. Harsh. Yeah.
Jagger May:Harsh. For me, cough. I respect that. And I do think that, the the god complex from doctor is for a doctor is an interesting angle. My brother-in-law is a fucking pediatrician, and and, like and he has a god complex.
Jagger May:So let alone if you're like, these are healing hands. I'm gonna cure the world. Like, all we got is just like, we're gonna make, like, a an Elon Musk out of that piece of shit. We probably did the world a favor a little bit by putting a bullet in his head. Like, we're better on stumbling upon the cure accidentally than having some fuck like that in a lab make it.
Jagger May:And I I know that's a very morbid point of view, but human beings, as we keep saying, we're not great at evolving, so I'm going on his previous history.
Alfredo Brown:I mean, if we're gonna say that there's a God complex thing with a doctor and that can't be the only doctor, is it possible that Ellie's not the only one who's immune?
Jagger May:I think the scenario that we know, it would have to be like specifically, you got bit mid labor. Like, you got to think like, what are the odds of that? You know, because, oh, super low.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. But the chance but the chances that there's at least one, maybe two other people. There's also maybe other ways that we don't even know that, like, someone could be immune.
Jagger May:That's fair.
Alfredo Brown:Right? Intriguing. Intriguing. Well, the show's given us a lot to think about, and I know that next week is probably it's it's the Michael Scott. It's gonna hurt like a motherfucker with having Joel back on there.
Alfredo Brown:But, I'm ready for it. My body is ready. Guys, I think that's gonna be a wrap for us. Like I mentioned, we're gonna be back again later this week. We're talking about Andor, the final three episodes there.
Alfredo Brown:We're gonna be back again next week with more Last of Us talk. As always, wanna make sure you guys are subscribed to the channel. Like this video. Comment down below. And as always, I wanna thank everybody for watching and listening all the way through for myself, for Sam, for Jagger, for Koff.
Alfredo Brown:We'll see you next time. Adios.
Jagger May:I will say content creation and calling things content, it it is a sick, like, a gross word.
Alfredo Brown:It's a dirty word. Yeah.
Jagger May:It is. Dirty word. Like, sometimes just, Content. When I say content, when I call, like, a movie content, I kinda wanna stab myself in the leg. Like, this isn't real.
Jagger May:Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:I've tried to call movies and shows, I call them projects.
Jagger May:Thank you. That's good.
Samantha Holt:Instead Projects is good. Yeah. That's good.
Alfredo Brown:Call it projects. It sounds cool. Other
Jagger May:but you got to. Like
Alfredo Brown:You it's it's like you're respecting it. Now that there's like, any asshole with a camera as a content creator, like, I can't put I I I can't cough. I'm sorry. I can't put you and Ryan Coogler in the same bucket of content creators. You get me?
Samantha Holt:I wouldn't even call him
Alfredo Brown:a content creator. Using a peddling. The same.
Jagger May:To to to be fair, it's Ryan Coogler, probably mister Beast, then cough. Just right there.
Alfredo Brown:Is it right there?
Jagger May:It's a very close third.
Samantha Holt:Do we record this for the bloopers later?
Jagger May:Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Oh, yeah. No. That's absolutely that's our post credit scene. So we always have these cold opens that aren't ever actually opens, and I just throw them in at the end of the podcast, the audio version. Audio.
Alfredo Brown:And that's our post credit scene. So the people who stick around for that, like, you get a little Nick Fury coming out every once in a while, and it's that's just it's just us.
Jagger May:Except Nick Fury. Nick Fury came out with cigarette. Well, we happy birthday, Alfredo.
Samantha Holt:Oh, it's your birthday?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Happy birthday.
Samantha Holt:Happy birthday. It is.
Jagger May:Oh my god.
Alfredo Brown:He's 30 Spending it with you, fucks. You're 35? 30 five. Yeah. Good.
Alfredo Brown:Freaking hurts. My tits hurt.
Samantha Holt:I'm older than you. So you're
Alfredo Brown:getting so that's fun.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Oh, me too. And now my knee hurts.
Alfredo Brown:Like crazy.
Jagger May:The bet the best combat
Samantha Holt:I've heard can't turn to the right.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. No. I you end up like Batman, like like Michael Keaton Batman where you just you gotta turn the whole body.
Jagger May:Yeah. I actually thought about you, Alfredo, where you said you have to, like, vampire sleep. I'm getting there, dude, with my neck.
Samantha Holt:Vampire sleep?
Alfredo Brown:I'm already there, bro. Like Like, I just
Jagger May:Like, straight back. Like, like, don't move.
Alfredo Brown:Lay perfectly perfectly back. Yeah. And even sometimes, like, I've caught myself where the most comfortable way for me to sleep is like this with my hands, like, on on my sternum. And I've I've got, like, full Nosferatu
Jagger May:at that moment.
Samantha Holt:You never go full, like, Nosferatu. You just
Jagger May:It's hanging
Matthew Kopfhamer:you're not full of Nosferatu.
Alfredo Brown:Not hanging dog. No. Not yet.
Jagger May:Not in
Samantha Holt:that Always. Way
Alfredo Brown:Thinking about it.
Samantha Holt:Flaws out.
