On today's episode of the UnBenched podcast, we're giving you a review and discussion for Andor season two episodes 10 through 12, the big finale. And, guys, I just gotta say, there's a big conversation to be had here. Not whether or not the show is good, not whether or not the finale landed the plane here. It's how it might just be the most important Star Wars project since the original trilogy. All that and more on an all new episode of Unvenged starting now.
Jagger May:This is your reminder that you're watching a reaction podcast. We're about to spoil Andor and most things Star Wars. Spoiler, Andor dies. Stop reminding me.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. I mean, we know the ending. Obviously, we know how the quality of this show, we know how great it was. JP, you are a special guest today, and I want to start this off with you. Is this and or the most important Star Wars project since the original trilogy or maybe even ever for Star Wars?
JP Acosta:I think it's definitely among the most important, and I think it's because it showed that you don't need lightsaber fights and all the I'm not gonna say, like, magic, but all the
Alfredo Brown:There's some mysticism to it. A lot of mysticism to it that has been, like, part of of Star Wars forever.
JP Acosta:Yeah. You don't need all of the giant saber fights. You don't always need the Jedi and Sith interacting for a show to be considered highly acclaimed, highly reviewed, and just overall fantastic show. Showing the the people behind the scenes of the rebellion, showing how we got to the point where we did with with the prequels, showing just average people living in star in the Star Wars universe. I know that's kind of been a meme where, like, everybody knows what goes on with, like, the Jedis, but seeing what, like, the average person is up to, how they feel about the rebellion, getting that back and forth, it creates some sort of relatability for people who are watching because it people in real life don't have jet don't have Jedi powers.
JP Acosta:I wish I did. That make life a whole lot easier.
Jagger May:You don't. Speak for yourself. I
JP Acosta:don't know. I we we might be force sensitive on here, but I think Andor is so important because it shows how much detail and how much care can be put into a story if you're get if you give the writers their own time to let them build something and also not having to be withholding to all the massive saber fights that we see from the prequels and the sequels.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. I think I think what it does the best, and I kinda go back to the clone war show with the same feeling, is it provides context. It gives you, like you said, that background of, like, the rebellion is not just, you know, five people on on the Millennium Falcon and then Luke blowing up the Death Star. Like, there were so many steps, so many people along the way that provided those domino effects to the Death Star blowing up. It's kinda like that meme where it's like the single domino was literally Cassian going to a space club to try to find his sister, and then all of a sudden, Death Star is blowing up.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So this show just provided such care and detail in the in the setup for what the rebellion was and what it became and how it got there and and the people that were important along the way that before, you know, Rogue One, we never knew the names Cassian Andor or general Draven or Clea or Luthan Rael, like, these people that were so vital to that formation that now we get to see their story and feel their impact and really go on that emotional journey of this is what a real rebellion would look like in real life is these nameless people that were so vital that get lost in the history books.
Jagger May:And what I what I really hope that and and this is to Disney. So, Disney, if you're watching, I know you always watch it because you guys are red no. They're ready to the content strike you in a fucking heartbeat. But, like, if you watch in here
Alfredo Brown:You know what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take the official Star Wars soundtrack, lay it over some of the stuff here because someone from Disney is gonna be watching this now.
Jagger May:Immediately, they're a little effing. Disney guy. He's wearing I'm assuming he's wearing, like, a a mouse ears, listening, and then he's just like
Alfredo Brown:Just mouse headphones?
Jagger May:Yeah. He's got it. But Disney, if you're listening, hopefully, you take this lesson that it is a lot easier for you to throw money at Prestige TV. You don't need to sell toys so much to get people involved and get people on your app. You can do this again because it's like like, JP, like you said, we don't need space magic.
Jagger May:I'll I I I fucks with some space magic. You know? I love it. You know? Like, it's funny that you mentioned all the other IP and stuff.
Jagger May:Alfredo. Oh, yeah. The the oh, yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:The little thing.
Jagger May:The little, yeah, little twinkly thing. Yeah. And then or or, you know, do the how did he just convince this one clone trooper and then the rest of them didn't say shit and then listen to him? You know? Like like, those little things, they don't have to explain.
Jagger May:Just make a compelling story about people and make it relatable. You know? And a lot of the the complaints, they're not even valid, and it's not like some of these other shows like The Last of Us where you could start to see the validity in some of the writing here. This is just crisp. A lot of people, it's like, well, there shouldn't be sexual assault.
Jagger May:Alright, baby girl. Go eat your chicken nuggets at the kids table. The adults, you know, like, we'll have our steak. Because that's what it feels like. It feels like the only people who are upset, they're the type that they're the type who won't eat chicken on the bone, you know, like like those type, you know.
Jagger May:They ask for, like, immediately on the menu, they're looking for tenders, you know.
Alfredo Brown:Why why every time every time we get into one of these, you find someone with an eating habit you don't like and you just motherfuck them into an oblivion.
Jagger May:It tells a lot about a person, Yeah. It like, come on now.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You're eating habits stick.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Boneless wings. That's a that's the kind of person who's complaining about
Matthew Kopfhamer:chicken nuggets.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Dino nuggets. So, listen, I think the thing with this, and we Jackie kinda mentioned, like, has Disney learned their lesson here? Right? I think it's twofold.
Alfredo Brown:One, this show was kind of made to not be the thing that's on in the background, and that's what we've gotten so much of is people just rewatching shows and, oh, cool. A lightsaber battle. I don't really need to pay attention to the minutiae of that. It's just pretty colors. Right?
Alfredo Brown:And I think we got a lot of that with Ahsoka and Acolyte, is I'm gonna give you story with lots of depth, and we're not gonna keep explaining this over and over and over. You either got it or you didn't. And it like, it's almost like he took a page out of the content creator TikTok book here where he's like, oh, you missed that detail? Gotta go back. More watch time, baby.
Alfredo Brown:Like, that's what Tony Gilroy did here. And I what I loved is he and his team knew the way they wanted to end this. And, obviously, you had that ending because of Rogue One, but they knew how they wanted to end the show. And to me, that's encapsulated by that quote from Luthan where he says he he tells Clea, and Clea recalls this, is know your way out before you go in. And that was something that Star Wars hadn't done with the sequel, trilogies.
Alfredo Brown:They I don't know if they've even done that with Mandalorian to an extent now when we saw how season three went. Do they know what they're doing with Ahsoka? Like, I think this could be the lesson that Disney needs to learn about Star Wars, and maybe we start getting cough. Like you said, more of these shows that fill in the gaps, more of these shows that give us that context, the completion of the story where it's not just going to make good content, but it's gonna amplify all of the movies and stories that came before it.
JP Acosta:I also think to an extent if they want to do continuations of, you know, the the sequels or if they wanna continue to add on to the universe going forward, they have to understand that it there has to be some sort of story. Some you can't just, like you said, just, oh, pretty color saber fight. Like, you have to have something to bring people in. You have to attach a story. Give them something to continue watching, and it's not just, oh, here's a lightsaber fight.
JP Acosta:Nothing else happens in between. Just watch the lightsabers. Like you said, it can be there can be a really good story written that continues the main plot line. You can have saber fights in there. Like, it's sprinkled in, but that's not the main thing that
Alfredo Brown:people Rogue One did a great job of that. We got that really cool Vader hallway scene, and everyone remembers it. But people also just remember how good the movie was and the story was and the characters even without having all that context yet.
Jagger May:Look. Let's talk about Bad Batch. They're like, a size of interest is in there for, like, an hour, and I mean that quite literally. That's it. That's the only force stuff that we have in there, and that's a great example of something where you don't have to have all this dense lore because you almost right yourself into the corner because you have to alright, now we gotta explain this force thing, or I have to adhere to these rules.
Jagger May:And then, like, JP, something that you said that I really loved was that, like, they need to make a good story because to to go back again, even what you said, Alfredo, Mandalorian, where they went wrong, and we all know this, how they went wrong. Season one and two, great storyline. Then they said, uh-oh, you know, we need to sell toys, and then they brought Grogu back out of fucking nowhere. And and that's how we get the Lizzo plotline in a yeah. And and and then
Matthew Kopfhamer:different show they brought him back, because they had Boba Fett
Alfredo Brown:Us right.
Jagger May:It was a Boba Fett.
Alfredo Brown:You're right.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Like, that two episode interlude where, like, well, Mando gets Grogu back. And we're like, wait. What? Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So yeah. It was just a mess.
Jagger May:And that was cheap because they said, wow. This Boba Fett show, fuck it sucks. So That sucks. You gotta watch it because it's canon. You know?
Jagger May:So, like, that little cheap shit in there. You know? Sell a story. And and you gotta think about the people in the Game of Thrones. They're naming their babies Daenerys now and shit like that.
Jagger May:You know how many babies are gonna grow up named Khaleesi and shit? You know?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Too many.
Jagger May:Before they even knew too many. That's We're we're
Alfredo Brown:gonna be dropping our kids off at school. Alright, little girl goo. You have a good day now. Yeah. It's the other kids.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Don't fight with Aegon again. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. What and that's something that I think Andor does so spectacularly well.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And Rogue One is you know, you watch the original trilogy and the third movie, they bring the second Destor. And they're like, well, why'd they do that? Like, the first one blew up. Like, they're gonna spend all this time and money building a second one. And what this show, again, brings context to is, like, we see how vital that project was to the empire, to the emperor himself because he wanted this super weapon to impose tyranny on the galaxy and dissolves the senate when it's completed.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And now we see contextually, okay. It makes sense that the first one blows up. They immediately have to build the second one because he has no other option to keep his grip on this collapsing empire. And we see it from the top down. Like, ISB is gutted by the end of Andor.
Matthew Kopfhamer:All the top officials are either dead or imprisoned, which goddamn, I love how they finished Dendro's storyline. That was such sweet irony that she was up in Narcana five. Oh, beautiful. But do you not she is now.
Alfredo Brown:Did you see how it's kind of also how she was born too? Like, being in like, it's just part of the empire since since childhood. Like, she's just right back to where she started. It it closes that circle. Very much the same way that this show did.
Jagger May:Her and Cyril, man. Yeah. You would that's such that's that's that's like the worst Romeo and Juliet story ever. It's like, y'all deserve it. You're kinda terrible, but it's also, like, really bad.
Jagger May:I wanted you to die, like, you know, with the gat, you know, something clean, not like that. There was
JP Acosta:so many times during think that was episode episode eight where I'm just like, he's he's she's right there, Cassie. Just go ahead. Just do it with with Deidre. But, again, it's that story, that buildup of and I think it makes a lot of sense when we were talking about where Star Wars needs to go is building all these characters that you do not like so much that you want to see them you wanna see their ending. You wanna see them get what they deserve.
JP Acosta:And I think that's sort of been missing with a lot of what Star Wars has put out recently outside of Andor is there's no attachment. You know? We it's easy to get attached to the people in Andor because we know, of course, we've seen Rogue One, but getting everything that led up to it just builds so much more attachment and so much more relatability to all the characters.
Jagger May:And that's what I'm Rogue One.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Just watching Rogue One after the end of Andor just makes it that much more in-depth. And, like, you actually now care about all these background characters like Meloshi who, before watching Rogue One, was like, I I don't know who this guy is. He's just a rebel. And, oh, no. He's dead.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's sad. But now we see his relationship with Andor, with Cassie, and and how that's built up. And now when you see him die in that doorway, it's like, oh oh god. Another one. My heart, I can't take it anymore.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And so it just provides again, I keep going back to the theme of it provides context, and it makes you believe and build into the story so much more than if they hadn't had this show.
Jagger May:Yeah. And that's, to to the point of all these other characters. I'm curious now if they think and and this goes back to if Disney remembered their lesson. I am willing to watch a spin off show of Andor now because, like like like, my homie Wilman, the like, he's huffed he's huffed gas with, Saw Gerrera. He survived Gorman.
Jagger May:I can't I gotta know how he goes out. He does he survived Ferrex. I'm like, I Man, he's
Matthew Kopfhamer:the with Galaxy's biggest pimp. Like, he keeps finding new ladies. Like
Jagger May:Yeah. Exactly. Like, give me a YouTube short something. I don't know. I gotta know it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I wanna see where he ends up in the Rebel Alliance because you know he's gotta be, like, a general at some point because he's he's he's experienced. He's competent, and, like, he's willing to, like, put his 10 toes in the ground and be like, this is the right thing to do. So he's gotta be somebody important at at some point.
Jagger May:I wanna see this spot network. I wanna see, like like like, get Klaya needs to be running shit. She's been doing this shit since she was a child, like a hustler, a killer, everything she needed to be. Like, that's like, if anything, she needs her own show. I'll watch Klayya.
Jagger May:I'm down. You know?
Alfredo Brown:I, I wanna keep talking about this. But before we do, I just wanna let everybody know you've got a bunch of ways that you can enjoy this podcast unbinged, and the first right here on YouTube. So if you're watching this video, take a second to like this video, comment down below with your thoughts on the show, thoughts on what we've said so far, and, you know, keep watching. Let us know what you think if you have any disagreements or stuff you do agree with. And, of course, there's also the audio side on the podcast, Apple and Spotify.
Alfredo Brown:If you're listening over there, leave a review. It means the world to us. And every Monday, we're gonna be back with our reviews of The Last of Us with each of those episodes, and Star Wars month is gonna be continuing. We're gonna be doing some fun ranking stuff, talking about different characters, what went wrong with sequel trilogies, all kinds of stuff like that. And then, we got the summer movie bracket that we're talking about doing here.
Alfredo Brown:There's some big stuff coming out in the summer. I mean, I know Mission Impossible just came out, and reviews are mixed. Yeah. That'll probably be a 16 seed. Just gonna say that in the bracket.
Alfredo Brown:Just saying it. Probably somewhere in there, but there's a lot of cool stuff. I mean, we got Superman, Fantastic Four, twenty eight years later. So many great movies that are coming out. So we're gonna be talking about all those things, and we've even thrown around the idea of recasting the X Men for the MCU.
Alfredo Brown:So all you guys just love the X Men. Excited about MCU, seeing where that's going. We're gonna be doing that pretty soon as well. Guys, we talk so much about whether or not Disney has learned its lesson. What exactly is that lesson here?
Alfredo Brown:Is it that we want more grounded Star Wars? Is it that we want shows to give us context about other stories? Or is it really what Andor did, which is give us original characters? Give us something new. What was it to you guys?
Alfredo Brown:Jag, I'll I'll start with you first.
Jagger May:I wanna start with the give us something new thing, and I wanna go to what James Gunn said because Disney is it's they have the same problem like with Marvel where, write a story, come with me with a script, and then we'll talk. Don't go, we need to get Amandla Stenberg into something ASAP. You know? Like, how do we how do we make
Alfredo Brown:this happen? Are doing already with Millie Bobby Brown. They're like, we gotta get her in Avengers. She's fantastic.
Jagger May:That's I can't, yeah, I cannot wait for the them to make the movie I will never watch. You know? Electric state, I don't I what's going on there? You know? But that that's the big lesson is just make good stories, man.
Jagger May:And, I think with their trilogy, they had a problem with they they did the pass off thing. Like, what is what is even Rian Johnson anymore? He came out with Looper, then I'm like, okay, I'm ready for Star Wars, then he made that abomination, then he's making Knives Out and Poker Face. I don't even know who he is as a person, and they let him direct the middle of a Star Wars movie, and what's what's normally like the crucial movie in in sequels as we've seen before. So, like, get a Tony Gilroy for every project and do it like that, You know?
Jagger May:Like, this
Alfredo Brown:What did you see? Was directing the next Star Wars movie, the Starfighter movie with Ryan Gosling. It's Sean Levy, the Deadpool and Wolverine and, free guy director.
Jagger May:Okay. I mean, it's that sounds a little skeleton crewy, and I mean that in a good way where it might be a little bit more lighthearted than
Alfredo Brown:Sounds a little James Gunny. Like a little
Jagger May:star lordy. Yeah. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Just let them cook and and don't try to sell me toys.
Jagger May:You know? I'll name my kid after shit if you just make a good story like we've established.
Matthew Kopfhamer:The biggest thing is they need cohesion and a singular vision, because that's where it falls apart is when you have too many voices, too many chefs in the in the kitchen all trying to throw in different ingredients. And it's like, now we have some slot that's just it's a mess. We need cohesion. We need tight storytelling. I don't care if it's original characters.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I don't care if it's characters we already know. I don't care if it's context to a greater story that we already know. I just want a good story that doesn't contradict what's already been presented and isn't just a a a CW level slot fest. Like, I want what Andor gave us, which was tight storytelling, emotional payoff, and just you know, it it makes you wonder, like, all these little characters that you've saw along the way that may have only gotten a scene or two, like, I wanna know more about them now. And that's what a good show will do is provide you with little nuggets that are, like, intriguing, but they don't go out of their way maybe to to spend a lot of time with them.
Jagger May:They just give you
Matthew Kopfhamer:enough. Mhmm. Exactly. They trust you as an audience member to have some media literacy. And I think that's what we need going forward is not to be handheld, but to be given compelling stories that allow us to really let our imagination run.
Jagger May:And that's Star Wars is built on glop shittos. So on glop shittos.
JP Acosta:I I completely agree. I think it needs or where Star Wars has gone wrong before is kinda spreading themselves too thin, trying to make every single thing important. Yep. And, yes, that can be a great tool to get people to pay attention. But if you throw too much at a viewer that without actually making it relevant, then you're gonna lose interest really quickly.
JP Acosta:So a streamlined story with a cohesive vision and something that just continues down continues down a straight line of, okay, here's here's where we need to get to. Like you said, there's an ending with and or you know how rogue one ends. You know what we have to get to. So finding out where you have to get to with wherever they go next will really help illustrate what happens in between them.
Jagger May:I really think this is the first time we have a starting point that is good for people to to watch. Ask that.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Think and or becomes the entry point for a lot of people. The show, the the the movie Rogue One
Matthew Kopfhamer:Rogue One.
Alfredo Brown:And then that leads you perfectly into A New Hope because then you you you care a lot more about what these characters are doing. Maybe not the characters right out of the gate, but, man, those twenty minutes of of two d two and c three p o walking around Tatooine, that's that's a boner killer right there in the middle of Star Wars. I'm gonna tell you that much.
Jagger May:And then and then the prequel trilogy.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Yeah. But I I always feel like the prequels make sense after the original trilogy anyway. It just to me, it always felt more natural to do it that way. But it just gives you the the cost, the actual, you know, human and alien cost of what it took to get those Death Star plans.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Because when you first watch A New Hope, it's just like, oh, we got the plans, and that's, like, the extent of it.
Alfredo Brown:And we see mhmm.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Exactly. So it's very much just a throwaway line, and now you have that emotional weight of like, oh, Luthnin literally gave up his life. Andor and and Jyn gave up their lives for this. All of rogue one, that whole squadron gave everything they could. Blue blue squadron, gold like, you see all of that now on screen, so you feel that weight going into it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yes. God. It's just this is how you tell a compelling story is giving you that emotional weight of a literally a throwaway line in the original movie.
Jagger May:And it gives you the fear of the death star. You know? Like like like, they really you really have context of genocide a lot bet lot a lot easier than especially with new people watching A New Hope, which is like, look at look at how scary I am when I hit this button and blow up claymation. You know? It just it it you don't feel it doesn't feel that bad.
JP Acosta:To the weight.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And Yeah.
Jagger May:Exactly. And what my point with the prequel is not that, like, that used to be my starting point with people, but it's like, alright. Let's watch this YouTube video of episode one because it's really fucking boring. Then we'll watch episode two, but you really gotta avoid this dialogue. Don't really think about it that hard.
Jagger May:It's really bad. But think about the actual story. Yeah. Like, it's just, like, really hard. Like and or you could just, like, pop on and say, here's a cool story.
Jagger May:And then and then you it, like, kinda it almost fixes a new hope if you really think about it. Like, you've you've already kinda said it. You know?
Alfredo Brown:That's what I'm saying about, like, these these stories adding context in between. They amplify the previous movies or the the ones that have already existed, honestly, because I know listen. We all have our opinions about the sequel trilogy. At this point, they can't really retcon it. Like, it exists for too many young children that went and saw it.
Alfredo Brown:And I I know a lot of us older Star Wars fans would be like, nah. Just, you know, cross off that timeline. Start it start it again. Right? This might be the only way that they can make those movies even a little bit better, which I I don't think it'll ever reach that point.
Alfredo Brown:But I think that's probably what Star Wars is trying to do right now with Mandalorian and Grogu. And Especially with the
Matthew Kopfhamer:felony stuff.
Alfredo Brown:The yeah. This felony verse right there. And I I wonder if if Disney is ever going to learn its lesson. Because I know, like, with, for example, with Rogue One, they enjoyed the movie, and they they enjoyed the results of it. But from interviews I've listened with Tony Gilroy, he's like, not a lot of people from the studio were happy that I was part of that movie and the the direction I had for it.
Alfredo Brown:And then when people liked it, hey. They were like, let's make a show because they wanna do the cash grab. And then they were like, yeah. But your budget is gonna be on the low end. And then season one went so well, and then season two, they're like, okay.
Alfredo Brown:Here's some money. And so you start to look at this, you think maybe Disney's learning its lesson, but I I don't know. I don't know.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I don't like it is. Nope.
Jagger May:Yeah. And they they keep falling back to, like, why aren't the children buying toys? You know? It's just like, motherfucker, HBO does just fine not selling toys.
Alfredo Brown:Buy a k two s o toy right now.
Jagger May:Right now?
JP Acosta:I I will buy a k two s o toy, like, instantly. Would
Alfredo Brown:three droid.
JP Acosta:I would listen to a k two s o podcast. Like, them, like, a Steven a Smith podcast, k two s o. I'll listen to that. Just just him talking about poker.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Well, wish we had gotten to see k two, k two and Chopper meet. That would have been, ugh, that would have been perfect.
Jagger May:Fuck Chopper. Like, that's whole problem. Fuck, Josh,
Matthew Kopfhamer:dude. That little genocidal maniac. He's amazing.
Jagger May:Give give fuck, Chopper. Like, how many do you
Matthew Kopfhamer:love Rebels the show and not love Chopper, man?
Alfredo Brown:What the
Jagger May:hell? One of my least faked because I'm just like, you guys could get a new droid. You know you have to put up with this shit. And they're like, well, if that's just Chopper, I'm like, get the fuck out of here with that shit.
Alfredo Brown:Disrespect me. I kinda like
Matthew Kopfhamer:Chopper. Chopper's great.
Jagger May:He's got a little Unpopular opinion. Unpopular opinion.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yeah. We're used to that. So okay. Gough, I think you said, like, right after you finished watching Andor, you you started Rogue One.
Alfredo Brown:I almost said popped in. Like, it's 1993, and you had a VHS just lying around. But you started watching Rogue One, and you were just soaking Emotionally red. Drenched in tears. Emotionally red.
Alfredo Brown:I started it that way on purpose as a callback to cough talking about yeah. If if anyone was listening to
Matthew Kopfhamer:me Just leaking. Gross. Just leaking. Yeah.
Jagger May:Leaking. From
Matthew Kopfhamer:every orifice.
Alfredo Brown:Uh-huh. How how did that enhance that experience for you? Because we already know Rogue One is such a good movie, but, like, everyone's been saying, man, when you finish Andor, throw on Rogue One, and it's just a different film.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It it again, it goes back to now you have all the context, all the backstory for someone like Cassian Andor who in Rogue One, he is an original character. So the first time you watch it, you're like, oh, he's kinda cool, but, like, you don't know anything about him. He's just kind of a kind of a badass and he's charismatic. And then you have the emotional payoff at the end with him and and Jyn watching the sunset of the Death Star blowing them up. Like, I don't know how to put it otherwise.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But now you have the fact that this man is a father and doesn't even know it. Like, his his his woman is out there in the galaxy raising his child without him now. And that just I'm not even a dad myself, and I have no plans or wish to be a dad. And that just oh, god. It it wrecked me even more than it like, it already did because that's an emotional ending.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And now you have that context. Now you see what he's gone through for the past five years of his life going from, you know, a rogue kinda thief, you know, kinda shitty guy to he got imprisoned unfairly, and now he's a a key member of the rebellion. And just to see all of that play out in front of you over a two seasons, and now this movie just it elevates the experience from, like, a nine to a 12.
Jagger May:I'd say that Rogue One's the finale for real because, like, it kinda ended flat, but, like, it didn't. You know? Because you're just like, well, I know what happens. And, like and you to throw back to what you said, Alfredo, Tony Gilroy knew. He's like, I don't need to think about a finale.
Jagger May:I already made it and landed
Alfredo Brown:it. Right.
Jagger May:So let me just get the plane right there and and and let you run it back.
Alfredo Brown:It's funny you say it. That's the Sorry. Was gonna I was gonna say go go go, Kuff.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I was just saying I love how the the ending of Andor is just kind of a a quick cut of all the different characters and where they end up. And, like, that to me is is the perfect summation of what Andor is. Because it was, yes, named after one character, but it truly is this group effort, and it it is a look into both sides of the rebellion and the empire. So it's nice to see that all these people that we've followed along the way, if they haven't already died on screen, we get to see where they end up, including someone who let's be real. How important was Mon Mothma's husband?
Matthew Kopfhamer:But we see him now with his, like, his daughter's husband's mom now. So that was weird that they ended up
Jagger May:You know who that was?
Matthew Kopfhamer:I wanted. Yes. That was that was his, like, that was
Alfredo Brown:his and he was just drinking his sorrows. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:She's from the wedding. She's from the wedding episode. Like, she's the mother of the of the son the groom, if I'm not mistaken. So how did that That's tough for her.
Alfredo Brown:Someone in someone in the comments is gonna let you know if you're
Jagger May:right or wrong. If I'm right
Matthew Kopfhamer:or wrong. But I wanna know that's like, that little tidbit. Right? Again, good storytelling, good writing. That little twenty second scene, I'm like, how did that happen?
Matthew Kopfhamer:In that year that Mon Moth was out of Coruscant, how did this sleazeball end up not in prison?
Alfredo Brown:Well, you get you get a lot of that. Right? Like, you get a lot of these just, like, one line or very quick scenes and moments with characters like Krennic and Partagas. But you never really saw them on screen a whole lot, and then you kinda get that one moment where he's like, I can't really help you out here, Leo. And you go, oh, Okay.
Alfredo Brown:They have first name based with each other. There's a little bit of that intimacy. They know each other. Maybe they've
Jagger May:Probably came up together or something like together, something.
Alfredo Brown:You know? Like and it was by the way, the scene where Partagas pulls out the blaster and just decides to take his own life instead of having to go in front of, whatever council there is for the empire, the imperial council there or the or the empire, the emperor. Yeah. Wow. Like, it just it's it shows you it kind of little Game of Thrones y where it's just like, yeah, everything's just a wheel.
Alfredo Brown:And it's just like, okay, first, it's Cyril. Now it's Deidra. Now it's Partagas. The empire doesn't give a shit. Like, you guys are all just spokes on this wheel, and it's gonna keep moving at the emperor's will.
JP Acosta:And I think that was hammered down, especially when with the spokes on the wheel, we can always find another you. Like, we'll always be able to replace you with Deidre and then here coming in immediately after and immediately not being ready for the moment. But it's that same instance of the empire just going, we can continue this without you. You are not needed to run this.
Jagger May:Yep. But Yeah. Like I said, he
Matthew Kopfhamer:But it's also ironic because we saw that because that's how the empire works, it collapses on itself because eventually, you do lose your best minds, your brightest minds, and you're only gonna have, like, the backstabbers and the the ladder climbers left who that cannot sustain a a structure like the empire for long because eventually, the weight of its all all of its own bullshit is gonna collapse on itself. And that's exactly what happens because they put so much time and effort in this one project, in this secret project and weapon, that when it gets destroyed, it literally is the death knell for the empire.
Jagger May:Yeah. And, like like, when you see it, some of these people, like, here just folded like a lawn chair under pressure, you know, like, could not handle that stadium pulse. And then, and like you said, it makes it easy to convert people over to to the to the rebellion because they they run on fear. I mean, we see that even in companies. You know?
Jagger May:Yeah. Or Lonnie or and well, I meant, like, even in, like, everyday toxic company that people are so ready to flip on a CEO sometime. They're like, because in in the same way, you know, they fire people like that because they don't fit the culture. And, you know, Partagaz, he's just like, I am not about to I'm not fitting to get force choked in front of the homies. Like, I ain't going out.
JP Acosta:I cannot
Jagger May:part while. I've never been no big. They don't plow me even after I die. You you remember part of gas? They
Alfredo Brown:they never they never really I I focus on that all too much in the movies where Vader's just choking people out left and right, and it's just like, alright. Now you're in charge, and they just drag the dead body away. And it's always just kind of like a a thing that we laugh at looking back at those movies, but just like this Olmeg was ready to just take his own life and stuff.
Jagger May:For real sake. You know?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Especially that one dude who was like, hey. My seven foot cyborg boss, your religion's stupid. And then
Jagger May:and
Alfredo Brown:then That guy must have been new. Like, he hadn't heard the stories yet in the break room. Zero shot you're there for more than a couple weeks, and you haven't heard the stories.
JP Acosta:He had That's one notice ready.
Jagger May:Yeah. That's one, like I I wanna see the backstory. He was just ready to go. You know? He's like, my wife's cheating on me.
Jagger May:My boss, complete dick. He's like, but I can't quit because they'll kill me. Fuck it. You know? I'll tell them off.
Alfredo Brown:That'll be that's gonna end.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Was he gonna get choke me?
JP Acosta:Star Wars me. They need a show.
Jagger May:Maybe he'll respect me.
JP Acosta:Maybe a show of just empire water cooler talk.
Jagger May:Yes. Exactly.
Alfredo Brown:He probably he probably thought it's like the movie Ted where where,
Jagger May:where he's yelling at the manager.
Alfredo Brown:And he's like, I like you. I respect you. You got a promotion.
Jagger May:No one's talked to me like that since Obi Wan. You know what? Talking, you're done.
Alfredo Brown:So in these final three episodes, I know the show is called Andor, and I know we've had so many characters that we've come to know and love throughout this. And I think Luthan is the guy who was just consistently dropping bars that we just loved everything that he was saying, whether it was good, bad, indifferent. Like, it didn't like, everything he said carried so much weight. But now this is where we really got to expand on a character like Clea, who her actions and her backstory carried so much more weight. And even just the simple things of just the camera doing that close-up pan on her face, and you can see everything, every single emotion, which, by the way, this actress, I had to look up the name, Elizabeth Dulau.
Alfredo Brown:This was her first credit
Jagger May:Fantastic. Wow.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. She goes Like, this is She gonna be in more
Matthew Kopfhamer:shape. Big things.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. We need more of this. It it was just I love when a show or movie can show and not tell and where they can do so much by doing so little. And I think we saw that just in those final scenes where she wakes up, she steps outside, and she kind of sees what life is going to be like on this rebel base and what it's going to be like and and everything that she and Luther had fought for for so many years in the shadows and what it's really turned into. Even though it's not necessarily a victory, it's cultivated some fruit.
Alfredo Brown:And that was just kind of a beautiful moment amongst all of the darkness that had surrounded her. And like you guys have said, it's just you get to see what people are like on a day to day basis and what sacrifice truly goes into this rebellion.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. We might really
Alfredo Brown:love Luke.
Jagger May:Like, he's a Neppo baby if you really think about it. Yeah. You know? It's just like, well, you got the, yeah, you got the strongest jizz in the galaxy running through your veins and shit. So, like, cool.
Jagger May:You could walk around and fuck around. Like, go off to swamp planet, learn some cool shit. Us down here, we'll clean it up. Don't worry. Keep the money going.
Matthew Kopfhamer:What I really love I really love that Andor did, a, just in general, all the female characters, so well written, just so compelling. But again, going back and watching Rogue One right afterwards, Kleia and Jyn are, like, two sides of the same coin. So you had Kleia get raised by Luthan, and so she's cold. She's calculating. She's capable.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And then you have Jyn who was raised by Saw. So she's little unhinged, also capable.
Alfredo Brown:I'm surprised Jyn's not more unhinged. Yeah. Like, let's let's be real. Jin is pretty well together.
Matthew Kopfhamer:She was huffing Raido with Saw, like, her whole childhood. Right? But she got too
Jagger May:many teeth, to be honest. Like, if anything, like, she we gotta we gotta we gotta reverse Ellie problem. I'm like, Jen is way too pretty to be raised by Saw. Like, you know she got meth mouth. Yeah.
Jagger May:Know. Just seeing She's like homegirl for Breaking Bad. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But just seeing that that, that comparison between the two was just so compelling to watch, especially especially Clea in the hospital scene when the, the imperial's like, it's gotta be at least a team of three doing this. And then they're like
Alfredo Brown:Name a more iconic trio.
Jagger May:Right. But
Matthew Kopfhamer:just being like, oh, it's one one woman doing this, and she's wrecking our shit. What are we doing right now? And it's just god. It's just so great watching this unfold on screen and, again, seeing both sides of the story at the same time.
Jagger May:Mhmm. And she was born a gangster too. She's like, dad, I think you a bitch. Like, when she was what
Alfredo Brown:was When she took over the negotiations?
Jagger May:Yeah. She's just like, you over here getting locked. Yeah. Like, them hair plugs, soft. Like, just Don't forget your leg, dad.
Jagger May:Clay Clay had that mamba mentality from a young age. He's like, oh, no.
JP Acosta:I got this. Don't don't even worry about it. But I think that episode was so important as well to one, not only just to give Luthan the ending that he that he deserves after following him and kind of getting his backstory, but I think it also gives Clea so much more hit her character. It's so much more emphasis based on like, like you guys said, she has been fighting for this her literal entire life. So to see not not only to see, like, her father figure, Luthan, go out in a way that, you know, continues the revolution, but getting that ending scene, like you said, of her just kind of being on the rebel base and seeing everything that she's fought for, not necessarily coming to, like, a close, but it's just the a little bit of relief that his death, Luther's death was not in vain.
JP Acosta:Everything that they had sacrificed wasn't in vain because they had built something.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But also showing that she kinda doubted it because she was like, Gavin, like, that's gonna be my ending. It's like the people that didn't believe me, didn't believe Luthan have been kind of our adversary even though we're on the same side. And it's not until she's on the base and she has the conversation with Val that she finally realized, like, yes, this is what we were all fighting for. And even though we have that stupid bullshit ideological infighting, we're still on the same path. We're still against the same enemy.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And just seeing that revelation for her was just so cathartic because you're right. When you are in separate places all fighting for the same thing, but it feels like you're all fighting differently, that's where it's important that you can all still come together at the end of the day for that singular purpose of taking down this, you know, authoritarian enemy.
Alfredo Brown:You mentioned the infighting, and I think, like, that's something that has been sprinkled throughout this show. And we got it pretty heavily in Rogue One, but we didn't have the gravitas to it when Jyn and Cassian are even fighting about, like, how much each has sacrificed, Cass sort of loses it on her. Like, I've been sacrificing. I've been fighting this fight my whole life, and now we get the context. Now But you get you get the context to this with every character, and that's sort of where Cleo was too.
Alfredo Brown:It's just like, really? Yavin? Because everyone and Luthan has said this in his his famous speech to Lani where it's just like, I've given everything. And so we see that with Bael Organa. We see that with that that whole, like, new little, I guess, committee that they have there at the rebel base.
Alfredo Brown:Right?
Jagger May:You could tell who the soft ones are. A little, like, soft belly, little Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Because this is that's that infighting. Everyone starts to think that their sacrifice has been more or meant more or cost more. We see that in society all the time where one person believes their same exact dollar is worth more than someone else's dollar. And it's even when you're fighting for the right thing and you have that belief, the this this show brought out the gray area of this rebellion so well that it's just like, yeah, we're all sacrificing, and we're all fighting the same rebellion, but we're all doing it a little bit differently. And we all still have our disagreements.
Alfredo Brown:And, I mean, it's it's just it's really beautifully done. And I don't know if Star Wars can pull that off with other stories, but I'm really hoping they can.
Jagger May:Yep. And it like, again, it just made Mon Mothma a more well rounded character for the same thing. Because you gotta think about what she gave up to. Like, her daughter hates her straight up. Trapped
Matthew Kopfhamer:her daughter? Yeah.
Jagger May:Yeah. And, like, you gotta think about it. I don't somebody in the comics told me how long the actual rebellion was, but throughout that entire rebellion, she's still gonna probably hate her because she's over on the the the opposite side of the war. And you gotta think that the kids don't really care. It's like, well, you left.
Jagger May:You undid this other shit. And her husband that I wouldn't I'd say that's a net win, to be honest. That dude was a fucking scrub. But, like, you gotta think about the other family that, that that they sacrificed there. You know?
Jagger May:And I wanna go back to that scene with, like, Lonnie and Clay. Like because then you already see him, Clay. It's like, like, grow the fuck up. So, like, it's like, you're a grown man. You know?
Jagger May:By the
Alfredo Brown:way, Lonnie had to go.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right? Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Lonnie had Like, there was really no choice.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Loose end. He was a loose end.
Jagger May:I wonder what their pact was because I I think that might have been, you know, like, hey. That they mentioned and they even put it in the pre in the preview scene about Luther and Sid. Remember that we made a pact that I mean, probably, they knew that they were gonna kill each other because Lonnie's been in this shit for a long time. You gotta imagine. You know?
Matthew Kopfhamer:It was probably the promise to save his wife and daughter and not
Jagger May:Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But It was Yeah. Lonnie had hope, like, maybe.
Jagger May:You know? But, like
Matthew Kopfhamer:Maybe he
Jagger May:knew he was gonna go. For him.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way you can be that deeply embedded in the enemy state like that and have a clean breakaway without a high percentage that you're gonna die. Mhmm.
Alfredo Brown:But we've talked about a lot of these characters, our main character, Cassian Andor, I think he becomes one of the coolest characters in Star Wars lore right now Not even close. Yeah. Because he's so relatable. And I was sitting there with my wife, with Gabi, and I'm just like, you know who Cassian kind of is? Like, to me, he be sorta becomes the Batman of Star Wars, where it's just he doesn't have the Jedi powers.
Alfredo Brown:You kind of always agree with his line of thinking all the time even when he's being a little dark about it, and he knows someone has to die, which I know Batman doesn't kill people, but, like, he's the one that's a little bit more gray area than the rest of the Justice League. And that that's kind of how I'm looking at Andor where I think he's everything Han Solo should have been and then some. Like, I think he takes all the best parts of the rebellion and gets put into one character. Like, that's I think he's probably in that top 10 of Star Wars characters now after
Jagger May:the show. Han Solo would be like the douchebag of a season of White Lotus. Let's be honest. Like He's Patrick Schwarzenegger? Yeah.
Jagger May:Like like
Alfredo Brown:But his brother just give him the old
Jagger May:Exactly. Everyone just like, oh, he's a scoundrel. Callback. Yeah. He's not a
Alfredo Brown:real scoundrel.
Jagger May:He's not a real scoundrel. Like, he's not a real herder. Yeah. It's like, Like, come on now.
Matthew Kopfhamer:He's a rogue. Yeah. Like, he's a lovable rogue.
Jagger May:Just because you used to to to slam, Natty Ice with the bros back then and maybe stole some shit. You weren't, like like, you weren't really with me shooting in the gym. You know? Like, he wouldn't I even even if
Alfredo Brown:Han Han is like, is like the varsity quarterback? Yeah. He's like a like, yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yeah. I thought you're
Jagger May:gonna say something solo.
Matthew Kopfhamer:When you said slam. I thought you're gonna say he was, you know, former formally slamming Khaleesi back on
Alfredo Brown:Okay.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You know?
Jagger May:Okay. I you didn't even have like, you were you wanted to That wasn't even You wanted
Alfredo Brown:to That wasn't even a shot from half court. Like, you were sitting in the stands, and you shot him. That was
Jagger May:that was such a reach. It was like, no way I was
Matthew Kopfhamer:I just wanted everyone to be reminded that
Alfredo Brown:Goff, you're getting
Jagger May:no.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Clark was in Star Wars.
Jagger May:But but to point it out, e even back then, they were like, you ain't about this. Like, they were calling him a bitch about it back in the day when he's just like, I'm an outlaw. And they're like, okay, buddy. You know?
Alfredo Brown:You're fine.
Jagger May:You're fine. Yeah. Go with your teddy bear and go. You're more capable sidekick.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yep. Yeah. Chewy's still the best.
Alfredo Brown:Okay.
Jagger May:In that context, I'll let you have that one.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. So we've had our big discussion here about how important this show is to Star Wars, to Disney. Honestly, I think that a lot of TV shows and just IP in general can take lessons from Andor looking at you, rings of power, and what you guys could have done if you wanted to make a good show. We're at the moment of truth now. This is where we give our score on a scale from one to 10, our review for the show.
Alfredo Brown:I wanna kick us off, 10. It's so easy. It's so simple for me. I sat and tried to poke a hole in whatever I could in this show, and I simply could not. From characters to tone to pacing to story to ending, visually, everything.
Alfredo Brown:It's just a perfect Star Wars story. It's a 10 for me. JP, what about you?
JP Acosta:I'm also gonna go with a 10 because this second season especially felt so real. Like, you could I think with Andor especially, you can find so many things you can pick up like, oh, I see where they're referencing. I see I see how you can write that into Andor knowing what's going on in real life right now. And I think that realness of it has to make it a 10 for
Alfredo Brown:me. Jack?
Jagger May:Ten, man. It's like you said, like and especially if I'm gonna give it just season by season, this was perfect. Like, it it it only got better every episode, I feel like. It just only improved. It stuck the landing because it knew it already had stuck the landing, so it didn't even try to make something cute out of it.
Jagger May:It it just they put the fries in the bag, and I mean that in the best way possible. So
Matthew Kopfhamer:Golf a bunch them. Easily a perfect 10. I mean, even if you took it out of the Star Wars universe and just presented this as a show in a random universe setting, whatever, this story is still compelling enough to be a the perfect encapsulation of how you fight against an overwhelming force like the empire. And just from a human level all the way through, like, hope is you know, rebellions are built on rebellions are built on hope, and I I feel like that just perfectly encapsulates what Andor is.
Alfredo Brown:Man, I I wish I wrote it down, but I'm gonna butcher it. That line from Luthan where he just says, we are fighting to win, so we just lose and lose and lose Yeah. Until we're ready to win. Man, anyone going through a struggle, anyone going through something with your family, with work, with just life in general, you feel that. Dolphins fan.
Alfredo Brown:That on a daily basis where what?
Matthew Kopfhamer:He said being a
Jagger May:Dolphins fan. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yeah. No. It's just there's I don't think we ever get to that last part, bud. I don't think we ever get to the win.
Alfredo Brown:Sorry. Damn it. We're gonna be back. We're gonna be back again. We're talking about doing we gotta confirm this, guys.
Alfredo Brown:We're talking about doing another episode on Saturday. We haven't fixed we haven't picked a topic just yet, but we're gonna be back again on Saturday with something fun for everybody, either that summer movie bracket or recasting the X Men. So be ready for that to come out, and then we're gonna be back again on Monday with our review of the latest episode of The Last of Us. So as always, make sure you are subscribed to the channel, whether that's on YouTube or on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And as always, I wanna thank everybody for watching or listening all the way through for myself, for JP, for Jag, for Koff.
Alfredo Brown:We'll see you next time. Adios.
