On today's episode of the unbinged podcast, we're discussing the last of a season two, episode six titled the price. Did this episode with Pedro bringing Joel back, did it save the season? Do you like Elliot a little more, maybe a little less after this episode? And this is the penultimate. We've only got one more left.
Alfredo Brown:Did it set up the finale the way we wanted? All that and more on an all new episode of UnBinged starting.
Samantha Holt:This is your official spoiler warning for Last of Us season two episode six. If you haven't watched episode six, stop. Go watch that now and come join us, or you can continue to watch us on mute while you watch the episode and then rewatch us because we really appreciate the watches.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. I'm gonna start this off by asking, I think, the most level headed person in the, virtual room right now. Sam, did this episode yeah. Don't look at me like that, guys. Did this episode save the season for The Last of Us?
Samantha Holt:I feel like it did. I mean, we got first of all, I needed an entire one hour episode of Pedro Pascal, so that definitely helped. But We all needed it. Think that we all needed it. I liked the way that they staggered the flashbacks as well, and then they took us on this journey to completely give us full context of the last five years, which I think was really important because there were lots of moments across this season so far where the question was, does Ellie know?
Samantha Holt:How much does she know? What kind of story did he fully tell her? And then we find out at the very end that she does know everything, and they have this moment of resolution, which for someone that doesn't cry watching shows, I got really close, guys. Like, I'm I'm very dead inside, but I almost cried. So I think that means that it was a very emotional show.
Samantha Holt:I felt it somewhere in my cold, dead heart. But it was an amazing culmination, I think, of moments. For me, I think it definitely saved the season in terms of tying everything together and also makes me nervous for launching into the last episode because this was such a heartfelt episode. It's gonna be nothing but trauma and violence in this last one. That's what I feel like is coming.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And, Sam, you're not wrong. I I think it was a good episode. I think the biggest misstep was packing all the flashbacks into a singular episode instead of really pacing them out throughout the season. Because I think it would have been more impactful if they had started with the flashback from five years ago or Joel's no. No.
Matthew Kopfhamer:No. Joel's flashback in 1983 with his dad. If that had been one of the first scenes of the season where maybe we get that as the opening scene, and then we go into Abby losing her dad and finding her dad. I think that would have been better pacing. And just kind of, like, each episode giving us one of these flashbacks would have really helped some of the pacing issues I think this season has.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Whereas sticking all of them together in the penultimate episode was a little jarring as an audience member because it's you're right. It did give context to everything we've seen before and probably what we're gonna see next. But I just I really wish they had broken it up into the other episodes of this season versus all in one. It just was a very strange choice for me from a pacing standpoint.
Samantha Holt:Feel like
Jagger May:they really want
Samantha Holt:sorry. No. I was just gonna say, I feel like they really want specific heightened emotions from their viewers after each episode, and that's why they keep doing this to us. Not saying that it's the right thing to do, but I think that there is a method to the madness, and they're trying to get us to have these highs and lows so that way this final episode is gonna end on a specific note for them. I do agree.
Samantha Holt:I would have loved the peppering of flashbacks throughout the season, though.
Jagger May:Yeah. And I better get this point out before you both take everything I'm gonna say because you both are tying it in together my big points and thoughts of this entire season as a whole and how this episode made me feel. What I think the last of us, specifically season two, does really well is they capture moments. And and but that doesn't necessarily drive a plot forward. Whereas with the first, like, the first season, we had a plot.
Jagger May:We had something like we had a journey that they were going on. And, yes, we have the whole Abby storyline. It just, times, doesn't feel like enough, and it feels so disjointed. If we would have done what Koff said, we have that home base, that, that that centering ground, our inception talk to to tell us where yeah. To tell us where we're at throughout and give context to all those little moments that sometimes for me felt like a drag.
Jagger May:Like, her about to play the guitar, have that creed moment in there where Joel's singing that ahead of time. And then where they're giving us the flashbacks of what's going on with the WLF, maybe that could have been its whole episode at this point now. So we are kind of ready for the lead up to the violence here. So we have the same emotions that made us fall in love with Joel and Ellie together in season one, we kinda have that, and we can say goodbye a lot slower without having this jarring, oh, Zaddy's gone. Now we just have, you know, Ellie doing the best she can with disjointed white disjointed writing.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right. Also, did you notice the last scene of this episode was Ellie out of the hospital, which we never we didn't get any context of how she escaped when they sealed all
Alfredo Brown:the entries?
Jagger May:You don't get that in the game either. Oh, really?
Matthew Kopfhamer:No. I didn't know that.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yeah. But I was
Jagger May:looking that up. Apparently, you don't get that in
Alfredo Brown:the game either. And from what everyone is saying, I didn't see any spoilers and not given any spoilers, but, like, it doesn't matter because in the grand scheme of it, there's gonna be something bigger that I mean, the whole area is sealed off. I'm sure she found an exit somewhere. Like, there's just there's doors everywhere.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Like It just would have been nice
Jagger May:to see that.
Matthew Kopfhamer:No. But still, like, it it just seemed like that was gonna be a plot point of, like, she's trapped. She has to get out, and now she just she's out. So it was just one of
Jagger May:the But if
Alfredo Brown:we would have had that for our finale, that would have just been kind of meh. Like, I'm I'm excited for us to explore a bit beyond.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Sure. I just think, again, it goes back to the fact that they only have seven episodes this season that it's that's a big downfall. Like, come on. What are we doing?
Alfredo Brown:That's that's that's the big mistake of the season. That's the big mistake of the season, and I I I agree that the pacing has been a bit off. Right. I I really like what Sam said, though, where she talks about how you, as the viewer, are it's meant to be jarring. It's meant to be in a place where it's putting you in these emotional highs and lows because you need to be in Ellie's POV.
Alfredo Brown:We have been in Joel's POV for all of the first season, and that's been the character that we've resonated with. Now we need to experience the ups, the downs, the loss, and that's kinda how we felt after losing Joel is just like, damn. This really came out of nowhere. If we would have had these flashbacks all throughout, it would have been kinda like getting tapered off the drug as opposed to just it getting totally removed from you. And you kinda need to feel that helplessness of, like, Ellie is on her own and now you as the viewer are on your own.
Alfredo Brown:So I might be forcing that narrative a little bit, but I can feel it and I can see, like, maybe that's what the director was going for here. I I will ask this question because I think this episode made me like Ellie more or maybe not like her, but understand her more Yes. And give context to Ellie more as to why she is being this shitty teenager and why she is so impetuous at times, at least seemingly to us. Right? I think that this episode was meant to do and please don't hear what I'm not saying.
Alfredo Brown:Was meant to do what Andor did for Star Wars, which is connect the dots for us and give us context that we haven't had. And I was really happy with this episode. I don't think it's a good penultimate setup for a finale, but I was really happy with this episode. I think it was the best of this season.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It definitely had a
Jagger May:good time. Tony Dalton Tony Dalton, like, you could like, those are very excellent casting. And I love that they don't waste any moment with having and I'm not gonna hate on having an extra or, you know, a no name actor in here, but if they're gonna capture a five minute moment between Joe Joel and his dad, they're like, we wanna get Tony Dalton. You know? Like, I that definitely could pass as Joel's dad in the past, and we're gonna nail it.
Jagger May:You're gonna crush it. And even though it's five minutes, it's gonna be the most emotional five minutes that you've ever had. And then, Joey Pantigalone, you know, having him being like the asshole from, yeah, from from Sopranos or seeing him bring Ben Urich or or even the matrix. I didn't know he had the chops like that. I thought he was,
Matthew Kopfhamer:like, a
Jagger May:character actor. You know?
Alfredo Brown:You clearly haven't seen bad boys.
Jagger May:Oh, well, actually yeah. I forgot about his most iconic iconic role as the captain in bad boys. I'm the only black dude in the world who, like, does not give a shit about those movies. I've never seen bad boys three or bad boys for life or whatever.
Alfredo Brown:They they weren't that good, as they I don't
Jagger May:think I missed anything.
Alfredo Brown:Bad Boys two. Great, though. Go watch that one on repeat.
Jagger May:I'm good.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. So that moment with the dad at the beginning, I was listening to the the making of the show that that airs afterwards during the credits, and they talk about how that is not from the game and how Neil Druckmann wanted to go in and say, like, hey. What if we look at Joel's past? And I think that was something that resonated with so many people because they they kind of recited the dad national anthem, which is I'm doing my best when you have your own kid, you know, just be a
Jagger May:little bit
Alfredo Brown:better than me. Right? Like, that's that's what it was. But what it does is I think it also contextualizes Joel as well. I think for so long, we were sitting here saying like, oh, he's doing this because he lost Sarah.
Alfredo Brown:No. He's doing this because I don't think he ever got to be the dad that he wanted to be. He's been he's been this protector from childhood. He's been this guardian since childhood, And I think the best way that he learned, he almost got programmed to do this, was that sometimes you have to lie to protect people. He did it for his brother.
Alfredo Brown:He did it for Ellie. He was doing it for for Gail and and and Eugene. And that kinda just became who Joel was. He almost became this tragic hero over and over and over that he didn't know any better.
Jagger May:Hero savior complex.
Samantha Holt:This the hero savior complex, which I think is
Alfredo Brown:And Ellie has that
Samantha Holt:too. And she has it too. I think that little flashback of that five minutes with his dad when he was a teen is so crucial because it does feel like it ties even back into season one and all of his actions and the way that he even talks about justifying. There's certain things that he does to save others. It all goes back to that.
Samantha Holt:So, I thought that was a really powerful five minutes. It felt like much more impactful but it was it was really good.
Alfredo Brown:The line that Joel says when because I I I know it's like, we're we're going kinda towards the end there, but that end scene on the porch is so emotional, so gut wrenching. And I I think I almost feel like that was the culmination of this season, like, all up to that point. Like, that probably could have even been a finale. And I think that we as as viewers might have been okay with that being the end of this season and then start into the new. I don't know about you guys, but
Jagger May:like that. No. I don't One one
Alfredo Brown:more one more episode is gonna feel so incomplete. So, like, there's gonna be a lot of pressure on them to make that thing really good because, allegedly, the next season is gonna be, like, mostly Abby, and that that could be a a real story killer. But the the line that he says where he says, if that day comes where you have one of your own, I hope you do a little better than me. And it's it hits more now, and I think it's that line that so many people didn't like where Ellie says, I'm going to be a dad. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Kinda like how Joel has been this guardian who has been kinda coded to lie to protect people. The only person that Ellie's been around for so long that has been through her formative years has been a dad that has been has a savior complex that has to protect people. This is Ellie's version of kind of fulfilling her purpose, her destiny. She doesn't get to be that savior that she thought she was gonna be where her life meant something as she said. It doesn't didn't matter anymore.
Alfredo Brown:So I know that line bothered a lot of people, but it's I think it's just her almost playing a role. I don't I don't know if you guys felt the same with that one.
Jagger May:No. It makes sense. And, like, I mean, you nailed it. We basically got the context that we needed to make us not hate Ellie as a character, kind of like we got with Dina. Like, Dina had her little moment of, like, here's why I'm a flighty and do all these things.
Jagger May:And you're like, oh, okay. Well, that makes a lot of sense. So, I definitely feel I definitely feel like all the complaints we've had with Ellie as a character and character writing, I can almost forgive that. And, really and I wanna kinda touch go back to that moment that you brought up, Alfredo, when they're on the porch here. How could anyone say that Bella Ramsey's a poor actress after that particular scene, dude?
Jagger May:Because, like, she just fucking nailed it. Because that that's been my problem. Everyone says, like, she sucks as an actress. I'm like, think it's more of, a writing issue. And then now with this episode, they've kinda fixed the writing issue.
Jagger May:So what I hope they take from this season is, like, maybe they give us a little bit of these bits earlier, so I don't hate their characters until the penultimate episode. You know?
Alfredo Brown:There's there's a big difference between not liking a character versus that actor being bad at their job.
Jagger May:Yes. Yes. Yes.
Alfredo Brown:And and that's what we don't separate often enough, which actually tells you that the actor's doing a good job. A very good job. Separate who they are versus the character.
Samantha Holt:Yeah. Yeah. No. I think that she absolutely crushed it, and I totally agree with you, Jagger. I feel like for anyone to sit back and say Bella Ramsey is, you know, still if they're still writing this trying to write or die that she's terrible, like, just get off.
Samantha Holt:This isn't the show for you. This yeah. It's it's dude, they absolutely nailed it. And even in the wrap up after the episode, they're talking about how important this was to get this scene right. And, you know, even the actors were talking about how emotional it was and how they really wanna do this scene justice and how important it was.
Samantha Holt:So definitely feel like nothing's being left on the table in terms of the effort behind making sure every single moment that needs to tie exactly to the game as well as keep the show going forward is doing a really good job. And it was just so incredibly emotional and a a beautiful moment between the two actors. I feel like they completely crushed that scene.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Mhmm. We're
Alfredo Brown:gonna keep talking about Ellie and Joel. But just really really quick.
Jagger May:Let me
Alfredo Brown:do let me do the housekeeping thing here.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Housekeeping.
Jagger May:First of all,
Alfredo Brown:wanna wanna let everybody know. If you got a bunch of ways you can enjoy this show, first is right here on YouTube. So if you're watching this video, like this video, comment down below with your thoughts on the video. Maybe you disagree with us on on Ellie and Joel, or maybe you agree and you wanna see something more. Let us know that in the comments.
Alfredo Brown:Make sure you subscribe because we have not only just this show, the last of us, but we got Andor. We did Black Mirror, Daredevil, so many different shows. We'll be doing a whole bunch of other content throughout the summer here, and then you can always listen to us on Apple or Spotify as well. And if you're there, please go ahead. Leave us a five star review.
Alfredo Brown:It means the world to us. Alright. Koff, I know you wanted to say something about Ellie and Joel. Please jump in.
Matthew Kopfhamer:This episode really reminded me of how much on screen chemistry they have as both, like, a father figure and daughter figure. And, again, I Yeah. It kinda goes back to my complaint of, like, why shove all of this into one episode when we could have pasted out throughout the season and had those emotions throughout? I get what you're saying about how they wanted to be this roller coaster ride it's almost like you're going cold turkey away from that. But, again, it as an audience member, I think that's a a misstep.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Maybe it'll all come together in the finale. Know, it makes sense to me. But for the moment, it's like, we see them on screen together, and it's just it hits every single time they're on screen together. It just works. So why would you not want more of that throughout the season in the form of these flashbacks?
Matthew Kopfhamer:So to me, it just it's again, it's a big misstep from a pacing standpoint, from an emotionality standpoint, and from an audience member. Like, I want more of Joel and Ellie always because they are the heart and soul of this show. And I get it. You gotta move past that eventually because Joel does exit from the show in a very violent way. But I think we're gonna look back at season two and just be like, man, what if?
Matthew Kopfhamer:What could have been better? And I think that's gonna be our biggest question at the end of this season.
Alfredo Brown:By the way, when you said emotionality, I can't not think of tropic thunder when Robert
Jagger May:said, the scene's about emotionality. It's not emotionality.
Alfredo Brown:Jackson Jackson here can't cry.
Jagger May:You see how agitated he is? You don't. Let's let's make lemonade. Make lemonade. Goodbye.
Alfredo Brown:That's that's all I
Jagger May:was thinking of. You were getting deep and emotional, and I was hoping
Alfredo Brown:you were smirking my
Jagger May:ass up.
Samantha Holt:Topic. Tropic thunder.
Jagger May:I'm so like, we are, like, moments from quoting Tropic Thunder at any time.
Alfredo Brown:Like, everything's about
Jagger May:our favorite zaddy's death brutally. Exejacks a kid crying.
Alfredo Brown:We're just always there.
Jagger May:Oh, man. Oh, speaking of, man, Seth, him being a Milwaukee Cop, I just kept thinking. I'm like
Matthew Kopfhamer:That makes sense.
Jagger May:Wonder what Makes so much sense. Yeah. I was like
Samantha Holt:So much sense.
Jagger May:What would you would have done with George Floyd?
Alfredo Brown:You just put you just pulled in
Jagger May:the Angelo Vickers. Where were you at 09:11? Oh, man. I'd be kind of. That's my first thought.
Jagger May:I was like, Milwaukee. I'm like, oh. You seem to
Alfredo Brown:have He didn't he didn't didn't get to experience that, though. Right? That's because of the the timeline?
Matthew Kopfhamer:I'm pretty sure Milwaukee's been a problem for a while. Right? Let's have some
Jagger May:You're you're not wrong. I was I was about to say, I think he would have been worse in 02/2003. No body cams. Yeah. Yeah.
Jagger May:Ugh. Go switch that dude off.
Alfredo Brown:We go from sad to laughing.
Jagger May:Wait. Let's go back to sad here.
Matthew Kopfhamer:If the quarter steps was set in 02/2003 in this universe, that means 09/11 still happened. Right?
Jagger May:A %. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Oh, yeah. Yeah. 02/2001. Damn. They were on a heater for, like, years of nonstop.
Alfredo Brown:Heater?
Jagger May:COVID a got shit on that dog. It's like, we went from 09:11, like, t s like, you went 09:11, then we got TSA, then we got
Alfredo Brown:Meanwhile, George George Bush is there just like, fuck.
Jagger May:Yeah. Those are three bad things in a row. It's just like The quarter steps hit the second tower. Oh, yeah. Jeez.
Alfredo Brown:And too much. Too much.
Jagger May:He's the fucking metagod. Going going from sad stuff to Morris. Jesus.
Alfredo Brown:Alright. Alright. Alright. Back through these, these flashbacks here, man. There was stuff, like, not just the emotional stuff at the end where they're sitting on the porch, which I kinda figured that's what we were going to get to.
Alfredo Brown:The way they cut away from that initially early in the season was, okay. We're gonna get that porch scene later. Yeah. And I figured that's where they were gonna talk about it. And you could almost see it.
Alfredo Brown:Ellie knew this whole time. She's known because what they did here is we talk about the contextualizing of Ellie's emotions, but we can also contextualize just how Ellie thinks too. She had all the right questions about the fireflies and why she wasn't there.
Matthew Kopfhamer:The raiders.
Alfredo Brown:She is not that she's not necessarily this idiot that she's almost played out to be. Mhmm. Where it's like when you contrast her to Dina, Dina looks like this genius and Ali looks like the idiot, but just because she doesn't have certain life skills. And I think what this episode did was it reminds us that she doesn't even quite know what a museum is. Like, she there is a childlikeness to her that when she sees this dinosaur and she sees the museum and the stars and the planets, she's just a little kid again.
Alfredo Brown:And we're reminded of that and that, like, there is somewhat in many ways, yes, she has to be an adult because of this dystopian universe, but there is an arrested development to her with her immaturity. And almost every time where she's had an opportunity to make a decision or maybe be an adult, I don't wanna say Joel's taken that away from her, but that was Joel's form of protecting her. And you see that often with parents where they try to protect their children so much that you actually just infantilize them by taking away their, probably poor phrase here, freedom of choice and and their ability to become a mature decision making adult. And I don't know that she's quite there. The, like, the biggest decisions she's had have been taken away from her.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You know what it reminds me of? And I'm glad you brought up Andor earlier, is it's the scene where, Clea as a kid and Luthan are I think it's Naboo where they end up blowing up, like, a, like, a stormtrooper depot. And Klay is about to hit the button, but Luton's like, no. And takes it away from her because he doesn't wanna kill her childhood in that moment. And that's kinda what it reminds me of is Joel up until this point has done everything he can to try to protect Ellie's innocence even though Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:She has
Jagger May:He won't
Alfredo Brown:give her a gun?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right. She won't let her go out. He won't
Jagger May:let her go on patrol.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Right. And so he's trying to protect her innocence even though she was literally born into this world as not an innocent. Like, she was born in the middle of a cordyceps attack on her mom. So, literally, from the moment she was born, she's been in this shit, and Joel just can't see past the fact that she's a kid and his role is to protect her. And so even when it's the wrong choice or, you know, it's the choice that he either has to choose the world or Ellie, he's gonna always choose Ellie.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And that just goes back to, I think, if they'd opened the scene the season with the scene of him and his dad, it would have recontextualized the entire season for us from the get go. And so we would have understood, like, the choice he made. Yeah. You can argue it's selfish, but it's also the most logical choice for a person like Joel.
Jagger May:Yeah. Fathers and family men are incredibly predictable. They're going to do what is best for their family 10 times out of 10. You know? And it's and, like, you you can't really fault them that much.
Jagger May:And another thing, could they have made it here? Maybe. Like, that that would have been the first time they made it. He said it with a lot
Alfredo Brown:of certainty too. It's like, yep. They would have made a cure. Like, I don't think he even
Matthew Kopfhamer:He doesn't know. Yeah.
Jagger May:Yeah. Like, I get it. A lot of people and it was selfish. Like, probably I'd probably be pissed at Joel. I'm not gonna lie.
Jagger May:Like, if if he could have fixed the world and it's just on Ellie, I'm a very pragmatic person. But, again, when you're from Joel's perspective, let's just say, like, you you're guessing, what, a fifty fifty shot that it even works or they have enough and they're gonna kill her. And then what if she dies for nothing? You know?
Samantha Holt:Yeah. Yeah. I think that makes as a father wanting them one, selfish, like, I understand that saying that he's being selfish, but does that mean just love in general is selfish?
Jagger May:Yes.
Samantha Holt:Yeah. All of it? Mean Every type of love? Every parent, Like,
Alfredo Brown:is it I I would say that there there are many different types of love, obviously. Obviously. Like, I I would say, like, there is there is it and, honestly, it depends on the eye of the beholder here because you could say that what Joel was doing was selfless, and it all depends. Like, right? If if you're gonna buy into the whole thing that Ellie needs to die to save the world, then sure, he's selfish for taking that away.
Alfredo Brown:But if you wanna look at it from the edge of, like, did they tell her that, hey. We're probably going to kill you, and there's a fifty fifty shot this doesn't work, and you're probably gonna die for nothing? Well, then is he selfless for saving her? Like, I I still think that's open to interpretation. So I wouldn't say that all forms of love are innately selfish.
Matthew Kopfhamer:But I think there is a component of selfishness to love, especially when it comes down to, like, hey. It's you or the world. Reciprocal. Sure.
Alfredo Brown:It's you or
Jagger May:the world.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. Yep.
Alfredo Brown:That's a good point. We talk about, like, the context of of Ellie being younger and Joel essentially getting a second chance at fatherhood. And it's kinda crazy because it's like the flashbacks we're seeing here of Ellie, which I didn't piece this together until after I finished watching, is that it's almost like he's picking up the story right where his daughter Sarah left off. Like almost exactly where she died around 14, 15. And we're seeing those formative years now with Ellie and where it really like I started playing it back in my head where it really hit me is when she comes in with the burn and she's got the she she's got the the painkillers in her.
Alfredo Brown:And Joel calls her baby girl, which is the same way that he spoke to Sarah in episode one. And it's like you fully see that transformation there. And I think that's like that's also what's in his head is he seeing the moth? And he's saying, oh, what? So, like, transformation, like, getting older.
Alfredo Brown:Right? It's, like, in his head, she's become Sarah. So I think there's actually a lot. We're talking about it. I think there's a lot to the selfish thing.
Alfredo Brown:There there is a lot to it where it's he's kind of recreated Sarah in a way. But I I don't necessarily think that's wrong because he's also given her a life that she wouldn't have had. So there's it's it's it's too deep. It's too deep to figure out on a podcast. I'm gonna say that.
Jagger May:Yeah. Well, you can also it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You can also see what you're saying, Alfredo, where he's trying to recreate having a daughter again, especially when he looks at her in the the space capsule and goes, did I do good? And it's like, he's still unsure. Oh. He's still unsure if he's doing the right thing. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:He's working in a world where he's still figuring it out too. So the fact that they, you know, are figuring out together is what makes them losing each other so tragic. You know? Because they were she was pissed at him for betraying her and lying to her straight to her face in two major instances. But she also gave him that one line of, like, I don't know if I can forgive you, but I'm willing to try.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And then literally, what, a month later, not even, he's ripped away from her. I I think, again, it gives that context of, like, this is why she is so full of rage. And while she hasn't shown it yet on screen because she's trying to be that brave face and, like, that calm demeanor in front of Jackson, in front of Dina, in front of everyone else. We started to see it when she's torturing Nora. Like, that rage is right underneath the surface.
Matthew Kopfhamer:And the right context, it's gonna come out in a very, very, very violent way.
Jagger May:Yep. Because every detail that they had throughout the flashbacks was was just beautiful from, you know, like, Joel's, like, one single tear. Did did I do good? You know? And even, I don't know.
Jagger May:I made fun of Seth, but I think it's hilarious where he's just like, if you do vanilla, it'll be a lot easier. And then, like, the next time we see a cake, he's able to do chocolate, and he actually has it out. Like, exactly. Yeah. Seth even got better.
Jagger May:Yeah. Happy birthday to you.
Alfredo Brown:Hey, man. When Ellie went in dug into that cake with her hands, I was so mad. Was so mad just as a viewer just Nah.
Samantha Holt:But y'all
Alfredo Brown:had the knife right there. All all hand.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Just those two jerk cake.
Samantha Holt:Cake before.
Jagger May:Another D'Angelo Vickers reference. I don't know why I did this.
Alfredo Brown:No.
Jagger May:I love that we're
Alfredo Brown:you're just referencing, like, one of the worst times in the office.
Jagger May:Hey. I love those two. I love you, Angel. Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:This motivational hacky sacred scene? Fantastic. Yeah.
Jagger May:But that and to to bring it back Sorry. Ellie noticing the fireflies of, like, having a thaw.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah.
Jagger May:You know, like, that residual trauma that's there. Mhmm. You know?
Alfredo Brown:So It's been there. Like, that's been in the back of her mind the whole time. And I think what this does is, like, we talk about the the context. We talk about the emotional maturity. But I think what it does too is for Joel is it's not just him trying to be a dad.
Alfredo Brown:It's what I think every parent is doing is just figuring it out along the way. And I think too as viewers, we needed that because we're so upset at Ellie that, like, why is she not just tiny John Wick? Why why is she not a navy seal that knows how to read maps and stuff? Like, dog, because she's a 19 year old girl that grew up in the apocalypse. Like, what what do you want?
Alfredo Brown:Yeah. So it's just like there there's a lot to it. And seeing that Joel is figuring it out, like, even just like a what flavor cake? Like, I don't know. There there's so many things to it.
Alfredo Brown:Joel has his skills. He put together this beautiful guitar with all these details. But then when it comes to just, like, not lying to people, he struggles with that. So it's it kinda just contextualized that everyone has their struggles. I know, cough.
Alfredo Brown:I know. I just think it contextualized that they're all figuring it out. And as a character, I think we need to be able to extend more grace to Ellie.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Yes. And I agree. Like, Joel did Joel did such a good job with, like I get it. He was lying to Gail, but he was doing it with the right intentions. And then Ali's just like, no.
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's not what happened. I was like, god. Shut up. Like, confront Joel on your own. Don't put it in front of Gail.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Like, that's some fuck shit right there.
Jagger May:Joel was trying to get a kid's discount. She's like, nuh-uh. I'm 13.
Alfredo Brown:No free ice cream for
Matthew Kopfhamer:you, Ellie. Goddamn. Like, shut up
Jagger May:and leave the room. Like, it's one thing if you talk
Matthew Kopfhamer:to Joel afterwards and be like, hey. That was really fucked up. You shouldn't have lied to her. But to do it right in front of Gail, it's like, you're just gonna cause more problems.
Samantha Holt:Feel like that was I feel like that was important, though. I mean, Joel needed to be called out, and I feel like He ain't gonna learn. He he's not he wasn't going to learn if she did it on her own. And she had
Matthew Kopfhamer:I know.
Samantha Holt:I don't know if it was Gail. Before that or after where we saw I think it was before we saw her kind of amping herself up to go through her list of questions that she has for Joel. So she's been sitting on this for so long. And so she knows all the moments that she's like, well, if he if this is a lie, then this if this is a lie then this. And so she watches him construct this picture and she does hear him say, you know, that it's going to be better for her to hear it this way and she disagrees.
Samantha Holt:She violently disagrees because she feels like she should have had the truth to begin with and that's why she doesn't want Gail to go and walk away with a lie because Ellie's been dealing with this lie for five years now. And so she's been up to this point and I feel like it was a really good way for the show to push this for forcing it forward but also forcing to give us this final moment of them together where yes she was upset but Joel can't be mad that she did that because she did lie. Even the little moment where she turns and she says after, you know, revealing to Gail the truth, she turns to him and she says, you swore. That's not what he said about Eugene. He swore when he was promising back
Matthew Kopfhamer:Mhmm.
Samantha Holt:That in season one what he had done. Swear to me that you're telling the truth. And so she brings it right back. Like, this is and in that moment, he knows that she knows too.
Matthew Kopfhamer:You're not wrong. I just as an audience, remember it like, Ellie, read the room. And then, you know
Alfredo Brown:Well, yeah. See, but this is that separation between what wanna see happen versus, like, where the
Matthew Kopfhamer:story is. Actual I get it. But it's just one of those moments where in the moment, it's like, goddamn it.
Jagger May:Yeah. I know you're like, fucking everything up. Because
Alfredo Brown:but this this thing has been festering for Ellie. Like, me, I don't have the patience to let something fester for more than a couple hours. Like, if I'm mad about something, I can't keep that shit in. I wear it on my sleeves. The fact that Ellie held on to that for years, like Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Even coming back from her birthday, one of the happiest moments of her life, and all she's like, oh, damn. There's some fireflies over there. Remember that time that Joel probably lied to us about our entire life? Mhmm. Well, back to being a teenager, and then, like, she just kept going on with it.
Alfredo Brown:So it's like, at this point, she got to see the other side of her own story. She got to see the behind the scenes of, well, she needs to hear this. It'll be better for her. And all she is hearing is that it's not Gail he's talking about. It's Ellie.
Alfredo Brown:It's her Yeah. That he's talking about. And then it's like, at that moment, you see the pain on her. You see the anger, like, frustration. It's it's
Matthew Kopfhamer:The betrayal.
Alfredo Brown:It's everything it's everything culminating to that point. It's like, not only do you feel like your life hasn't meant anything, but that the one person that you thought cared the most about you has lied to you about what your life means. And that's where it really just bubbles up for her.
Jagger May:Yeah. Right. And it's the look. She says it. It's her own autonomy to make her own choice then.
Jagger May:You know? Like, that that's the big thing because who knows if she would have agreed to do the surgery or or to die I mean, agree to die, essentially. You know? But that's the point is that she's she'll never get to know. You know?
Jagger May:So and I wonder if that's what all the moth obsession kinda started maybe a little bit. I don't know. She's like, I'm supposed to be dead. You know? I'm not sure.
Jagger May:Like, I just thought that was, like, very interesting how butterflies mean life and then moths mean, like, death, and maybe she just thinks it's dope. I don't know.
Samantha Holt:No. I I do think there's something there. I think, you know, with what Gail said with butterflies being, you know, transformative and moths representing death, you know, Ellie, in many ways, escaped, avoided, but feels like she should be dead. Like, she feels like she should have died in that moment. And I feel like
Alfredo Brown:She maybe feels like she lived beyond her expiration date, and she's playing with house money at this point.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I mean, you believe
Jagger May:in that, actually.
Samantha Holt:Survivor's guilt as well. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:What? Dying?
Matthew Kopfhamer:No. No. Just bringing back Gale's, like, Gale's whole point of, like, if you believe in that symbolism
Samantha Holt:If you believe in that shit, that's true. Got it. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:Got it. Yeah.
Jagger May:I was gonna say, I'm gonna be the first YouTuber to cheat death.
Alfredo Brown:Given the advances in modern medicine, Lucius,
Jagger May:I don't know. I could be a
Alfredo Brown:50,
Jagger May:hundred and 40.
Matthew Kopfhamer:I've seen Final Destination. It's not that hard to escape death. Come on now.
Jagger May:Oh, okay.
Samantha Holt:As as as long as you don't drive behind one of those log trucks, then I think you're fine.
Jagger May:Yeah. That's that's everyone's biggest fear. It fucked everybody up for out of the young days. It's a millennial guess. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:It's the absolute best marketing for this movie, though. It has been incredible.
Jagger May:Terrible. Oh my god.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Where did my millennial anxiety start?
Alfredo Brown:Right right then and there, bud. I think the the thing too now is, like, trying to contextualize. I don't think we're gonna get any more flashbacks, but the the time gap from that talk on the porch with Ellie and Joel to that moment where Ellie watches Joel die. And it's not just her losing this father figure, losing this person that she loves and that loves her. It's still kind of her dealing with the fact that she's never been able to truly forgive him.
Alfredo Brown:She said, I'm gonna try to forgive you, but now she's dealing with that. And so I think that allows for some really complicated emotions with the Ellie character. And I think a lot of this is like her her anger is what makes her so impetuous, and it makes her so willing to leap before she looks. And I just think that's probably gonna be the character for a little bit until she experiences some growth. And that's probably what we are going to get here in this finale, is something that needs to be transformative for her so she can maybe stop being that moth and be more of the butterfly.
Alfredo Brown:Like, I feel like you get that that symbolism for a reason.
Samantha Holt:Yep. Or maybe the anger gives her focus, and she's gonna go to the dark side, and she's
Alfredo Brown:gonna be
Samantha Holt:a villain.
Jagger May:Sam's like, fuck it. Because No
Alfredo Brown:third season.
Jagger May:If you
Matthew Kopfhamer:think about it, it's it's compounding her survivor's guilt because she has survivor's guilt from surviving the, you know, the surgery with the the fireflies and not having that chance to be the cure for the world. But then she also survived the encounter with Abby, and we hear her bring it back like that last episode when Nora's like, we let you live. She's like, maybe you shouldn't have. And so she has that double survivor's guilt now compounding itself upon herself. And I think she's just as angry at herself for not being able to stop Abby from killing Joel as much as she's upset at Abby and her crew for doing it.
Matthew Kopfhamer:So I think she's dealing with not only external anger at them for taking Joel away from her, but also the internal anger of, like, I didn't do enough to fix my relationship with Joel before he was violently taken away from me. So I I think we're we're getting that complex emotions from Bella. Like, she's doing an incredible job, in my opinion, of of showcasing that emotion from Ellie because, like, how do you deal with that external and internal dilemma of, like, I I didn't do enough, but they're also the reason why I didn't do enough. And so I think we're gonna get to see that play out a little bit next episode, but really next season when she, in my opinion, goes full John Wick event. You know?
Matthew Kopfhamer:Like, they did more than just kill her dog. They they killed their father. Yeah. So
Jagger May:Let's let's maybe not John Wick. Maybe, like, I don't know, one of the people John Wick kills.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Ballerina.
Jagger May:One of the people who would, like, definitely kill us, but, like, maybe not John Wick. At least something. I know I I I know that we're probably gonna get the big showdown that everyone keeps talking about in the theater. So I'm cure and, like, Jesse's there too. You wanna talk about who's really John Wick?
Jagger May:Jesse's the one who's been training everybody.
Alfredo Brown:He's the
Jagger May:one Tommy's there. So oh, shit. I forgot this is gonna be it's gonna be something.
Samantha Holt:Maybe we'll finally see where Shimmer is if the horse is linked all.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Shimmer's still a
Jagger May:horse. Shimmer's is Thing is
Alfredo Brown:that happens that happens in the game too. Like, I've been I've been just blowing through the first game, and, like, there's just times where you're on a horse, and then all of a sudden, you're just like, fuck that horse, and you leave it. And that's it. And you're getting And it's going without the horse. The very this show is very accurate.
Alfredo Brown:Yeah.
Samantha Holt:The gamers shouldn't be mad. The horse just disappears. Yeah. Supplies disappear. Collect.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Horses fast travel.
Jagger May:Yeah. Well, that's true.
Alfredo Brown:This has been a it's been a hell of a therapy session, guys. Yeah. I think I think we nailed it. Anyone else wanna unpack some trauma?
Jagger May:Go you know, Father's
Matthew Kopfhamer:Day is coming up. Go tell your dad you love him.
Jagger May:Oh god. Aw. You know?
Samantha Holt:I can't wait for all the Father's Day jewel cards. Aw.
Jagger May:I'm gonna buy that for my dad so he has no he's like, who the fuck is this old man? Doesn't know. Context. It's just I'm gonna send him with a Pedro Pascal heart meme. Love you, dad.
Jagger May:Hope you live.
Alfredo Brown:Did I do good?
Samantha Holt:Dad golfing gifts this Father's Day. You know? Gonna hit different.
Alfredo Brown:That's why
Jagger May:I'm my dad's least favorite kid. Oh, that's usually an indicator we're Are you too long? Jagger,
Matthew Kopfhamer:you're not an only child, are you? Nope. Oh, okay. That would've been funnier
Alfredo Brown:for you.
Jagger May:Arguably worse. There's, like, six of us. So it's like he, like, manually, like, faded here. Manually faded.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Just has a big old whiteboard, and he's just like, well, jaggers going down a spot.
Jagger May:Just ears. Yeah. Definitely e tier. Adjusting
Alfredo Brown:rankings constantly. Alright. That's gonna be a wrap for us. We'll be back again next Monday with a review of the finale of The Last of Us season two. And, guys, we've been talking about it, but I think we're finally gonna do it.
Alfredo Brown:We're gonna recast the x men for the new MCU, talk about how they could actually save this Marvel Cinematic Universe, question mark. Maybe Zaddy Pedro is gonna do that too. I don't know. Also, May continues Star Wars month. We got some other cool Star Wars stuff coming up for you guys.
Alfredo Brown:So make sure you are subscribed to unBinge, whether that's on YouTube or on the podcast. And as always, I wanna thank you guys for watching and listening all the way through for myself, for Jagger, for Con, for Sam. We'll see you next time.
Jagger May:Like and that the dude she works with, Stone, apparently, there's another incident. His name's Brandon Stone. We just call him Stone. Like Oh, okay. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:I was like, that's it's peak white.
Jagger May:Yeah. We know too many brands. Fascinating. Let's let's not When you
Alfredo Brown:start naming your children after just items
Matthew Kopfhamer:That's one
Jagger May:step You've gone too far. Yeah.
Matthew Kopfhamer:It's one step step above Brock. Like, Jesus.
Alfredo Brown:Elements and elements and items. It's the whitest fucking thing ever.
Matthew Kopfhamer:Come here, air. Out
Jagger May:Fort Fort Collins is a place where people, like, go by different names. It's like it's not even like Tiberias. They're just like, call me
Alfredo Brown:What are they next?
Jagger May:Animal. Yeah. Squirrel. This is squirrel. And I'm like, okay.
Jagger May:Well, squirrel. Like, know, I guess I have a
Alfredo Brown:I have a Please tell me that's real.
Jagger May:Please tell me that's real. Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:There's someone that goes by squirrel.
Jagger May:Yeah.
Alfredo Brown:I love this person, and I wanna meet them.
Jagger May:My name's Ebony. You need to call me. And then Dick's Jim. Shut the fuck up. Big Jim is old.
Jagger May:Like, he should be named Jim. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Like like, he should be named Jim.
Jagger May:And Jim Miller, I'm like, I don't know would be less pretentious if you went by James or, like, maybe Jimmy. Yeah. Jimmy would be better. But Just
Matthew Kopfhamer:call him bitch boy.
Alfredo Brown:And we've jumped the shark.
Jagger May:No. He's not wrong. I'll let I'll allow it. Like, that's what I wanna call him. I'll allow it.